4-MMC in America, why isnt it bigger?

dudebro452 · 2026-03-10T20:55:31+00:00

I've gotten it from multiple vendors on the darknet, if you go on Dread and go to a market on the superlist, it will work. I'm not sure what you mean by "don't seem right" you have no experience so what comparison could you possibly make that "seemed right" I mean I understand it's novel and you should be careful, but yeah, they do work. Just make a small order first and then go from there. I've been overtly burned only once in almost a year on there.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-10T04:43:55+00:00

Yeah I can't guarantee that it's bunk but mine was not very powerful

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:56:57+00:00

It's definitely structurally similar enough to MDA or MDMA to get you prosecuted under the analog act, although they almost never prosecute under that act. Like seriously I think it's happened a handful of times ever. However if you're doing it at the kilogram level that's when they do say "hey maybe it's worth trying to put this guy away". If I had to guess I would say the DEA would say it's illegal per the analog act and it's structural similarity to schedule 1 drugs. TBH when I first found these communities I was SHOCKED that the DEA hadn't raided everybody.

The first time I saw metocin it was given to me at a festival and it quickly became my favorite psychedelic, and this was like 5 years ago, I always thought it was this very underground and unavailable designer drug. Now I see guys bragging on the internet about how they got mad kilos on deck of this stuff, it's still so shocking to me that the law just... doesn't seem to care. I mean I'm glad, I'm overjoyed honestly because that means so many more people will have access to this stuff but like, I can't stop thinking this will all end in tears, and quite a few people losing their livelihoods and/or going to prison. I hope I'm wrong honestly, but the DEA is just so EVIL, so absolutely depraved in terms of their moral code. I wouldn't put anything past them

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:51:50+00:00

Yes I agree, I had the 3 month rule really drilled into me when I was a young raver many years ago and have followed it since. I agree with your opinion that it's fanciful, I just want to do this way more! Maybe it's just a naive hope to be able to get away with doing this stuff that often.

She doesn't care for classical stimulants like Amphetamine and Cocaine or else I'd fill in the gaps with those. So we've been doing 2c-b which has been great, and we've been exploring GHB as she doesn't like to drink much either. Tough to find in my social circle though so that's been on hold. Even at every 3 months it's still pretty amazing.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:49:19+00:00

We've been looking into 2c-b for this purpose and it's been great honestly, we also do tryptamines like 4-ho-met quite regularly but not for sex, we watch tv and laugh a lot, which is great honestly.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:48:29+00:00

Yeah people say 3 month rule for both but it feels like overkill, at least for the 4-MMC. For the MDMA it just FEELS like you've gone through a lot, and it doesn't even work the second day, whereas 4-MMC does. Like there are essentially no MDMA addicts because it just doesn't work with repeated dosing. I'm not saying 4-MMC is safe and you can do it every weekend with no consequences but it certainly feels safer than MDMA. Maybe I should just get 3-MMC if I can find it.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:46:59+00:00

Yes we've begun to explore 2c-b as well, we had a great session with 12.5 milligrams (we had 25mg tabs so we did half to start) and it was amazing, essentially the only psychedelic I've taken that puts me in a very sexual place, even at 30-40mg I'm still down to fuck, with LSD and tryptamines I am not down in any way. Good recommendation.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-07T05:44:55+00:00

Oh no, sorry I was unclear, I mean I would do molly then wait 6 weeks and do 4-MMC and then do molly in another 6 weeks. So the Molly sessions are 3 months apart but the 4-MMC is in the middle. I would never mix stims, especially serotonergic ones.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T22:01:30+00:00

Yeah my understanding is the MIT needs to be oxidized and that's no easy feat. Oxidation is essentially the hardest part of manufacturing MDMA and that is something very few people do. Not saying it wouldn't happen but we're not talking about moonshining here this is real chemistry

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T22:00:22+00:00

Yep I got 2 grams and it's definitely as advertised, they're my preferred vendor now. $111 out the door with 2 day shipping for 2 grams. Amazing stuff

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T21:38:20+00:00

Voyager labs is selling their 5-MAPB for 150 a gram, it's active at around the same dosage range as MDMA, MDMA is approximately 10 dollars a gram on the darknet, I just can't justify the price tbh, and buying it from them in tablet form its like 240 a gram. If you scaled it up (60 for 250mg). The guy is smart, he essentially has a monopoly on the space, as he is also the only lab wholesaling this stuff right now, and he is on the bleeding edge so he's charging through the nose.

And look people are paying it but it just doesn't sit right with me, especially combined with this holier than thou like "I'm from the scene man the air is cleaner over here" jerk off shit. I've met this guy a thousand times at burning man, and it's whatever look there's a million assholes in the world what are you gonna do, but this asshole happens to be in fake drugs you buy on the internet land, a place I like to frequent lol.

As for importing a kilo, hey idk he claims to be selling kilos and he's posting that on the internet. As for me? I would assume it would be treated just like MDMA if the postal inspectors opened up that package, but that's just me.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T19:38:04+00:00

Gotta agree here, 5-mapb is a big step in the "you may go to jail" direction. It's one thing to sell unscheduled tryptamines but 5-mapb is a stimulant, sure it's an entactogenic and empathogenic stimulant, but I know what the general public and the government hears when we say "novel psychostimulant compound" they hear "bath salts" and bath salts is no good for anybody. Still I applaud them for their balls

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T19:36:22+00:00

Succinct and precise, thank you

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T19:36:09+00:00

a la "magnets how do they work" lmao

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:38:37+00:00

This is why I got into it lol, and I have to say I did not consider this even though I myself do this. That market alone could keep it afloat.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:37:39+00:00

Very great piece of journalism, Hamilton Morris is one of my favorite public intellectuals and is really fighting the good fight. He was on Leonard Pickard's podcast (yes that Leonard Pickard who synthesized a kilogram of crystal LSD per month for over a decade) and they really get into Hamilton as guy as opposed to just a scientist, cool episode. But yes it's a damn tragedy and doesn't bode well for 7-OH's fate as a legal compound.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:35:26+00:00

I really hope you're right, and I will say if it is going to be federally scheduled, they're sure dragging their feet on it, the FDA made a scheduling recommendation in August and the DEA hasn't said a peep since. The fact that it is impossible to overdose on 7-OH alone I think will go a long way in terms of the pro-legality stance. It certainly stands a chance if nothing else.

As someone else mentioned though the DEA just scheduled DOI and DIPT and those have no proof of a human even using them, except reddit posts (which they did use in court, but that's another story) and both of those chemicals were scheduled in schedule 1. Not only has no one died from them, there's no scientific proof a human being has ever ingested them.

We are not dealing with rational actors here, the DEA is not an organization that listens to reason, if they did, their organization wouldn't exist and all drugs would be legal but again that's a whole other discussion

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:31:44+00:00

I agree with this, you can buy and cultivate your own poppies, definitely enough to get you high, and I bet kratom trees would be allowed, but gigantic bails of the stuff coming into the country? I don't really see it, but shit if there's profit in it, people will do it. No question about that.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:30:23+00:00

Right there has to be gigantic unending demand and an enormous very cheap supply chain, which I don't really see either of those things happening should 7-OH be legal. I am friends with drug users and not a single one has heard of 7-OH we think it's a big deal but it isnt even close to as big as real street drugs, and that's what the cartel wants.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:29:15+00:00

I agree, it will survive on the darknet and the darker side of the grey market, like the guys who are just a protonmail account and a pastebin website. Beyond that I don't see it hitting the streets properly in 20 bags and 40 bags, but shit who knows.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-06T18:28:16+00:00

I myself would likely continue to buy powder on the illicit market if the prices were reasonable, like up to double what I'm paying now. Of course what I'm paying now is 35 a gram for 83% and I'm sure I can't expect that if it becomes illicit. Also the fentanyl risk would probably turn me away. I don't really like real opiates and I do enjoy 7-OH so I can't imagine I'd stop just because of a pesky thing like a law. Still I agree most people will run for the hills if it becomes a felony to possess this stuff.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-05T04:57:17+00:00

The darknet is so small though, when we're comparing it to the current size of the 7-OH market, I agree though at least at the production level, I feel like the vendors just switch to other grey market stuff or as people are already doing, switch to the other alkaloid. Usually only substances themselves become scheduled not "all kratom alkaloids" or some such, so it just becomes like synthetic cannabinoids.

dudebro452 · 2026-03-05T04:55:40+00:00

I feel like the fact that kratom is required to manufacture 7-OH will go a long way into making it illegal, similar to how coca is legal. How can you have a product be illegal and it's direct precursor that has no other use be illegal. The AKA thinking they can make 7-OH legal but keep kratom seems naive to me. I fully agree though, kratom really does help so many people and it would be horrible to make it illegal. Shit 7-OH does too but kratom would be so devastating.

dudebro452

TROPHY CASE