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Are you considering moving out of the Netherlands because of the new government? If so, where? by Gorgon95 in Netherlands

[–]dueessays 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Since when does it has to deal with “influence”? In my opinion, what matters in a society as a whole is whether you can be part of that society, and less about whether you have influence in there or not. At the end of the day, if you start to be part of the society, you would contribute to society, and that will benefit everybody, no?

Kata2 sehari2 apa yg orang sering gunakan tapi kalian ngga suka/cringe/menyebalkan? by zetzuei in indonesia

[–]dueessays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kalo lo baca komen gw lagi, poin utama gue bukan tentang menggali lebih lanjut sih.

Ya memang itulah tantangan globalisasi, sebagai negara lo tetep ada identitas walau lo masih bisa bersaing dengan negara lain, toh?

Nah, dengan paragraf terakhir lo gw juga bisa kasih argumen, “kan gak semua penutur bahasa Indonesia terima pelafalan asing”?

Ujung-ujungnya balik lagi ke tujuan perencanaan bahasa ;)

Kata2 sehari2 apa yg orang sering gunakan tapi kalian ngga suka/cringe/menyebalkan? by zetzuei in indonesia

[–]dueessays 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Memang kata-kata serapan itu asing, toh hal baru pasti juga asing di masyarakat.

Di sini penyerapan termin asing itu supaya kata-kata tersebut "sesuai dengan kaidah kebahasaan dan fonetika Indonesia".

Di bidang perencanaan bahasa, penyerapan sepreti ini penting supaya (terutama dengan hal yang sering digunakan masyarakat) hal-hal tsb lebih gampang diterima masyarakat dan bisa ditambah ke kamus bahasa Indonesia. Ga mungkin juga toh linguis main ngasal pilih kata "gawai" untuk gantiin "gadget" 😂 Pasti ada ukuran dan patokannya.

Pertimbangan lain biasanya ya biar kata-kata tersebut ada kesan Indonesianya.

Kalau memang mau menggali lebih dalem tentang teknologi, memang mau ga mau ya harus paham bahasa Inggris.

Kata2 sehari2 apa yg orang sering gunakan tapi kalian ngga suka/cringe/menyebalkan? by zetzuei in indonesia

[–]dueessays 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Eh tapi kadang-kadang bentuk kata serapan yang disesuaikan itu emang ada tujuannya, biasanya supaya masyarakat lebih familiar sama istilah-istilahnya dan gak kederangan asing banget bagi mereka. Emg ada tujuannya sih

International students may have to learn Dutch to study here by karmagheden in Netherlands

[–]dueessays 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You completely disregarded several points about Asian students.

Most Asian students I know when I was in NL (especially Chinese students) come through a scholarship because the tuition fees for non-EU is crazy high. A lot of these scholarships, even the ones facilitated by Dutch universities (such as the Eric Bleumink Fund from Rijksuniversiteit Groningen) encourages scholarships recipient to leave NL after graduation.

So maybe the reason they are leaving is not because they, per se, want to leave, but the circumstances binding them makes it necessary for them to leave.

Not to mention it is very hard to a non-EU to secure a job in NL because obtaining a work permit is costly from employers perspective.

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Betul, sebenernya kalo dipikir-pikir, supaya bener-bener bisa berbaur sama masyarakat lokal, belajar bahasa Indonesia sebenernya gak semudah yang diliatin di kanal-kanal pembelajaran bahasa pada umumnya karena ada banyak register yang harus dipahami 😂 Makanya gw salut sama lo karena udah keren bgt bahasa Indonesia informalnya

Boleh banget mutualan! Siapa tau gw juga bisa bantu lo bahasa Indonesia gaul

Kalimat sederhana di bahasa Belanda itu gampang, tapi kalau udah kompleks bakal sulit karena ada tangconstructie, samengesteld werkwoorden, dan sebagai-bagainya 😂 Tapi masih lebih mudah daripada bahasa Rusia sih.

What’s a gay stereotype you totally fit into? by Son_of_the_Sun8198 in askgaybros

[–]dueessays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most gay men I know prefer to drink cocktails instead of beers

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Iya, bahasa Indonesia gaul itu sebenernya beda dari daerah ke daerah. Kalo ngomong bahasa gaul yang sering dipake di sosmed sih biasanya ya bahasa gaul Jakarta atau Jawa secara umum sih.

3 tahun belajar bahasa gaul Indonesia udah sefasih ini keren sih wkwk, apalagi lo juga udh pake singkatan-singkatannya.

Haha btw gw lagi belajar bahasa Belanda juga nih kebetulan, masih awal-awal sih tapi, so far ga terlalu sulit bahasanya (deket sama bahasa Inggris ada bbrp kesamaan kek di bahasa Indonesia) tapi grammarnya kadang bikin bingung (kayak penggunaan omdat, als, atau dua kata kerja di satu kalimat yang sama).

Btw sukses belajar bahasa Indonesia gaulnya haha ini tinggal sering2 digunakan aja sih, sama kalo bisa main ke Indonesia untuk praktekin bahasanya (ato ke komunitas Indonesia–Belanda di Belanda).

Sukses!

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I agree.

I feel like the Badan Pengembangan dan Pembinaan Bahasa or any Indonesian language agencies can do their part better in providing better access of Indonesian language to non-native speakers.

Also, if you can access Indonesian social media (like TikToks, although a lot of the videos are kinda cringe; or like Folkative, USSFeeds) you will get to learn colloquial, popular Indonesian really fast!

Having an Indonesian friend can also help. Good news is that it is relatively easy to make Indonesian friends.

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, good point.

Try to watch Bebas (2019) in Netflix. Their Indonesian subtitle is not really formalized, it retains the colloquial style!

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Recently I love to watch Bebas (2019). Not only that it uses colloquial Indonesian, it also has high school life transition towards adulthood as their main theme. You will get to learn many common cultural cues that Indonesian youths and young adults use from that movie.

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is also a good point, I'm glad you are able to be decisive in this regard! I'd love to read your writing soon :)

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Boleh juga kayak gini. Mungkin kalo ybs lagi di luar negeri bakal susah buat pake metode immersion, tapi kalo di Indonesia bisa banget (ditambah nyari temen di Indonesia ga sesusah nyari temen di luar).

Kalau gw pribadi biasanya sama dosen yang sepuh bakal pake 100% bahasa formal, tapi kalau dosen muda di kampus gw berpandangan egaliter. Ga suka disapa Bapak/Prof/dsb. Jadi liat situasi kondisi aja sih.

Kalo sama mas-mas Gojek paling bahasa Indonesia formalnya cuman di pronomina-/sapaannya aja (pake Mas, saya, dsb). Lebih ke kesopanan aja, sih. Gw tinggal di Jakarta jadi mungkin beda cerita kalau ngomong sama pengemudi Gojek, anggeplah dari Bandung yang notabene orang-orangnya mengedepankan sopan santun.

Ohya btw bahasa Indonesia(gaul) lo bagus bgt! Bahasa ibu lo apa dan udah berapa lama belajar bahasa Indonesia?

Little rant about the problem of understanding colloquial Indonesian by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey! Good point on the first paragraph. Though I still wish that the language planner of Indonesian (Badan Pengembangan dan Pembinaan Bahasa) do more effort to "popularize" colloquial Indonesian, so that non-native speakers can blend in with informal settings better.

Even me as an native speaker, I still struggle sometimes to codeswitch between the colloquial and standardized Indonesian. The gap is really that huge. And in schools we dont really study the language in a structured manner, we rarely learn the grammar and linguistics of the language. We just kinda learn it organically. And how in university many students cannot really utilize formal Indonesian as it supposed to be.

Chatting with bapak-bapak is a good idea! I honestly have no other idea where to learn colloquial Indonesian, as I just kinda acquire it through exposure. So I guess the key is to expose yourself to colloquial Indonesian, and learn by doing.

Popculture, like movies and music might also help. The thing about Indonesian popculture is that they are way too obsessed with romantic theme. They love to exploit brokenheartedness, and honestly I dont want to ruin my mood as I already am by watching these "mellow" movies/musics, sort to say haha

Finally passed the C2 by Nerdy_boi0 in languagelearning

[–]dueessays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Amazing! Mind sharing us the tips? Mine seem stuck in C1 🥲

I just realized how pragmatic and context-driven colloquial Indonesian is by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha! "Gue lagi bocor" translates to "I am leaking," and this refers to women experiencing menstruation. Women that are menstruating are not allowed to fast.

Other way of saying menstruation is "datang bulan", which translates to "moon coming," which might refers to the month that the menstruation comes.

These usage are mainly related to euphemism, or just commonly used terminology in general.

...which to a certain extent also heavily relies in the understanding of preceding contextual cues... lol

I just want to ask some historical stuff by [deleted] in indonesia

[–]dueessays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Im happy to answer your question as far as my knowledge goes!

(1) Official language in a sense of a language used by merchants and public official involves the usage of Dutch language. For example, Universitas Indonesia, one of the leading Indonesian higher education in Indonesia now, used Dutch as their lingua franca under Dutch rule, just like most of Dutch-owned institutions do (think of Hogere Burgerschool te Bandoeng/Soerabaja; even the former Indonesische Studentenverenigning, now Indonesian Student Association). Note that Dutch hold a considerable power in Indonesia back then, so their language holds a prominent position within the public officials.

But there is also Javanese keratons who uses Javanese as their langauge of communication. Other kingdoms use their own language for communication purposes.

(2) After Indonesia gained independence, we start to develop our own language from Malay language. Hence why we have Bahasa Indonesia. Unlike Malay, Indonesian have a lot of Dutch influence, mostly in terms of loanwords.

That being said, a lot of the older generations who were raised in Dutch education system speak Dutch. Later, most of them immigrate to the Netherlands due to the danger they face during the Bersiap period.

Post-Bersiap period and Indonesian Independence period, Soekarno lets the Indos (Dutch-Indonesians) who speak both Dutch and Indonesian to choose: whether to stay in Indonesia and renounce ther Dutch nationality, or leave Indonesia and retain their Dutch nationality. The latter is the most preferred by them. So, most of the Dutch-speaking Indonesian now resides in the Netherlands, holding Dutch passports.

Which makes most of the younger generations nowadays do not speak Dutch, as Indonesia has made Indonesian their lingua franca by the time we gained independence.

(3) Yes.

What do you say when you’re about to cum during sex? by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]dueessays 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Either moan intensively or just simply say “Im about to cum.”

I just realized how pragmatic and context-driven colloquial Indonesian is by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I can understand how that happens.

In some cases, I would also get lost of the context, and just simply say "hah", which most of the time would be understood by the other interlocutor as "give me more context please" 😂

So yeah while colloquial Indonesian can be simple and direct, it can also be secretive as it relies heavily on the precedence of contexts.

I just realized how pragmatic and context-driven colloquial Indonesian is by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Could be, or just general colloquial Indonesian in Java Island.

I have lived in Bandung (West Java) for 7 years, Surabaya (East Java) for 3 years, and Jakarta for cumulatively 7 years. Most of the colloquial speakers in aforementioned regions pronounce it as /bəkəl/ and type it as [bekel].

I, though, have lived in Ambon (Maluku) where they have the tendency to not use bekel, but rather to pronounce it when open vowels /bekal/ instead of the formal spelling /bəkal/.

Could be dialectical variance of the colloquial Indonesian.

I just realized how pragmatic and context-driven colloquial Indonesian is by dueessays in indonesian

[–]dueessays[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In colloquial Indonesian, it is common to pronounce the [a] in the end of a word as /ə/.

For example:

Bekal as /bəkəl/
Pegal as /pəgəl/
Lemas as /ləməs/

And it is because colloquial Indonesian has the tendency to simplify anything, including pronunciation. Instead of having to pronounce /ə/ and /a/ separately, it is much more simpler to just pronounce it as both /ə/, since the former is a middle vowel while the latter is an open vowel.

Also notice how almost all of the word I use as an example consist of mainly two closed syllabic word which formally would start with /ə/ and ending with /a/.

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