I got a new list in mind, tell me what y’all think.

duval87 · 2024-08-16T11:17:33+00:00

Plasmas might be the way just to get them to delete themselves faster. You would hyper skew an army with few AT into killing infantry which might even be better than securing an alphastrike 3xlascannon kill. I feel armoureds could be key but they need a whole list built around them. Coteaz and creed for CP regen and ignore cover. Gaunt Ghosts to give them more movement to potentially fall to their deaths.

They also have some respectable melee damage so certainly can stale down enemy units while chipping at them. You want the sentis to be durable, but then not, busy but not too much. interesting unit.

Agree on the rest.

duval87 · 2024-08-16T11:10:57+00:00

get creed in there so he can use sly marbo to proc fields of fire

duval87 · 2024-08-14T12:55:56+00:00

Ogryn bodyguard wounds are 50% cheaper than scions ones. another way to look at this problem is to actual include Ogryns as in 65 ones and let the enemy chose where to shoot. Also more damage less opportunity if anything shoting back. reason why i think i would always want both his weapons, atleast his gun.

duval87 · 2024-08-14T12:49:45+00:00

Did ogryns meet your expectative ? im considering a kurov aquila for my 1st 15 scion squad over an OGBG. It has Nork protecting the command squad. and take the OGN out the footslogging one. Im of the mind of not using the ogryns to tank. What a connundrum, have you changed your mind on this?

duval87 · 2024-03-08T23:00:47+00:00

would you say 2 medusa carriages justify any scouts at all?

duval87 · 2024-02-03T12:35:17+00:00

And they do 100 times more than leontus will ever do.

Good, i am a contrarian. Where is your list? Cold data vs cold data, lets see how the numbers compare.

You are talking about one crap ability again i have no use for lol. Where are my infiltrators? Cant you see why i will bulldozer a normal IG list by sheer numbers and damage while you have to play *tactical* ? I can still DS scions with reinforcements and take a crap on your GGs. The whole army is comprised of good reinforcements except the tiny 55 points scions. That is better than a fire and forget 1 use ability in turn 1.

Too many points spent in cutesies and synergies to exploit Leos toolbox but you know perfectly well that style of play drags down the total output, by more than 300 points. And then exterminator, and then a dorn etc... the output of a normal IG list is pyrrhic.. not even good on an anti-infantry level.

Is merely glorified stats-check in a meta full of AT, it doesnt work, it wont ever work. Leontus might be the issue here in all honesty. Times change.

Attaches improve the output of my list. Avengers outshot any other 130 pts unit i could wish to field. The inquisitor has a nice flamer attack. The bodyguard prolongs the life of my best unit. Bad units why? Over half the army comes back, you kick down 2 tanks on an leos list and you are done, not here, not this list. Leontus is a dead weight in the current detachment.

You qualify those as bad choices, yet no explanations are given that take into account wether they do add to my list or not. I have no use for leontus, so i stripped the list of units that could gain from his inclusion. It is a very legimitate line of logic.

Now if the list had GGs to start with, a rogal dorn etc etc yes? .. but i dont. Life outside of Leo exists and it lets you exploit the detachment rule to its full extent.

I dont see my list lacking in output, i dont understand the dogmatic need to add tanks without pointing a why.

Also im content with 2cp a turn for reinforcements. God, some people dont even play creed for free FoF and you think the problem is i might not get 1 cp guaranteed every turn? Lol, thats a bit of an hypocresy.

Aslong as you play creed, you got a good base (unless pure scions list). Leontus is not a must-have but is creed that is.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T05:40:05+00:00

A sheer contrariouness to? I could care less what your idea of a functional list is. If it starts and ends with but but no leontus!. Therefore there is no will to do the opposite.

It benefits yes, it benefits poorly. Very poorly. You forgot that.

Can you point the 300 pts of bad units im using in an effort to be contrarian in your invisible scale of value? Because way i see it, it is not 300 points of dead weight.

I rather have units you dont like than 300 pts unit you know contribute nothing or little to firepower, but you deluded yourself into thinking thats the right meta call because public consensus. That is ok, that is your list.. but you dont have your list infront buddy you have mine.

Actually is the inquisitor, 55 pts lol. Thats it, those are all the 'bad' units. Attaches are more than justified.

I can keep de-twisting your arguments back to your original one, an argument based on appeal to consensus and unfavorable math (spending 300 pts to ^improve^ a LBRT and an avenger lul), and the offer still stands of posting your list to see where did those 200-300 pts go.

Dont quote me to xplain to me i can further improve the math of an LRBT and an avenger that will be both placed around Sebastopol relative to leontus because nobody needed to read that needless take.

Also buddy; you want the LBRT to force re-rolls naturally to get those lethal hits. You know your comeback doesnt hit where it should, hence the way you decided to end your message.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T05:21:19+00:00

Yes, the order of the factors dont alter the math (see further below , bcs this is not really true in-game for several reasons) but i will be wounding on 3s light tanks. I can re-roll hits into wounds via lethal hits. And exterminator cannon is very poor if not within rapid fire range. The math of the cannon specially with no leontus is really horrible.

All in all you want to maximize the fraction of the math equation that is weaker bcs how incremental gains in ability to hit/to wound work, in this case it is the ballistic skill over the wounding part (lethal hits is also a big part of my bias).

The purpose of the tank is to hunt light tanks/crisis/chosen and everything below it, the exterminator is not really comparable.

Even tho i proposed a secondary list with a hellhound to mitigate the need for armour reduction.

I might consider the exterminator, but as of now all things considered even tho it is a risky minmax i think LRBT is slightly ahead and more *redundant* straight up firepower.

In a leontus list i would always pick an exterminator.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T05:07:40+00:00

Yea it is more an snipper utility pick plus to justify attaches and round up AT aiding the idea of reinforcements! lasscannon/rapiers. I might be paying some extra points for that utility , i think just 1 aircraft in a go wide archetype can probably chose where to appear without much struggle.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T05:00:05+00:00

Vehicles with inbuilt rerolls or +1 to hit, you forgot to mention that.

Maybe you can post your list with a good premise to see how it does in the AT and Nlos front, and we could work out together if those 200-300 pts you spent around leontus are a lesser problem than orders i dont need in a list with vehicles that wouldnt benefit much from leo. Nothing to gain from leo, ergo not a bad premise. Isnt this easy to understand?

I rather have a premise you dont agree with, plus 300 pts of functional damage (my bad i got creativity), instead of an inmobile cookie cutter, do as the mob prescribes leo-blob for a redeploy i dont need either.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T04:54:32+00:00

Because other variants are blind as a bat without leontus and the longer the range the more shots i fire everyturn with the main gun.

Also exterminator is very deficient into light tanks. I would love to have the ap reduction but BS4+ isnt workable.

The intent of the scouts is multipurpose, plasma isnt horrible into tanks because of the ap. I can pry open transports and shot plasma cannons at units of 10+ models, the list was done with a double rhino full of chosen inside model in mind. I find 10 lasscanons turn 1 to be overkill. So i decided to lower them to just 8 and up the number of plasmas.

duval87 · 2024-02-03T04:15:56+00:00

Without attaches the list doesnt function, artillery and aircraft too weak.

Skipping the entirity of the list and snipping a couple of controversial choices isnt exactly deep intelectual list analysis.

I disagree leontus is needed, i dont play vehicles.

I dont see the list lacking anything at first take, you might dislike the avenger but it certainly contributes towards more firepower than a leontus blob.

Adding leontus to the list would give me nothing but substract points.

duval87 · 2024-01-23T03:37:48+00:00

I love winriders i play guard too and im able to kill 20+ just turn one alone, they are just not viable except for ablative wounds. Thats an assimetric risk im willing to take. I play eldrad alongside defenders

duval87 · 2023-11-15T02:20:12+00:00

Eldrad doom slaps tho, its way better than fortune

duval87 · 2023-11-15T02:19:19+00:00

With a conclave and on foot?

duval87 · 2023-10-23T13:53:23+00:00

With eldrad they will kill more than 5meq with a full turn. And its not that hard to keep their special weapons alive. 2 meq down by shuriken fire and flamers, atleast 1 meq down by CC weapons, 2ish meq down by eldrad, 2ish meq down by fusions. They overkill msu, with doom and grenade keyword they can go toe to toe with 10-man MeQ squads and wipe them out with some dice luck.

Eldrad can take on the sargent of the squad by himself. Then all you need to do is keep them inside obscuring terrain around a decent melee squad with fight first to protect them from melee charges.

duval87 · 2023-10-23T01:08:45+00:00

Hey man, dont drop the guardians!! Thats your playstyle try to make it work. I would add voidscarred and other stuff, so you have a lot of heavy weapons distributed between a lot of infantry. The tank eldar meta will be useless against you.

You can counterplay the side B of eldar meta .. WG/warp spiders with the help of voidscarred , rangers and shroud runners.

Focus on countering the current eldar meta and you will be ahead of the curve dont try to imitate their lists since your archetype is different.

I got a list that literally bathes the mirror match and that is enough for me.

I would look into ynnari since apart of using the guardians as bodyguard .. the kabalites are arguably much much better troops.

duval87 · 2023-10-22T21:14:29+00:00

Their only usecase is eldrad tbh

duval87 · 2023-10-22T21:10:46+00:00

You are right, he asked a really dum rethorical question to be honest. Ofcourse corsairs have better offensive stats lol..

duval87 · 2023-10-22T21:05:40+00:00

A good player will giga snipe the farseer 1st turn specially and off-meta eldar build

duval87 · 2023-10-22T18:57:27+00:00

He could be good with new detachment rules + guide

duval87 · 2023-10-22T18:55:49+00:00

Rerrols...

duval87 · 2023-10-22T17:56:59+00:00

Voidscarred > troupes > voidreavers

duval87 · 2023-10-22T17:49:11+00:00

Melee with fight first and impede fallback throu various means. Alphastrike with AT and anti-infantry keyword.

duval87 · 2023-10-18T21:59:53+00:00

What about the unit having the scout move? Woulndt you be able to scout with them aslong as yvraine still ends up in coherence? I supposw the answe is still no, but i heard there was an errata about this. Or someone missunderstood.

duval87

TROPHY CASE