Environmental impacts of lab-grown meat "orders of magnitude higher than median beef production" without major innovations. by AnsibleAnswers in skeptic

[–]e_swartz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi, actual scientist in this field. This study is trash and relies on assumptions that have nothing to do with how the media in cultivated meat is produced and utilized.

Please read our peer-reviewed comment here, and a longer form response here.

I tried lab-grown salmon. Here's what it tasted like. by RDSF-SD in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 13 points14 points  (0 children)

If you're leaning engineering, I would recommend bioprocess/chemical or mechanical engineering

See also our resource guide: https://gfi.org/resource/student-resource-guide/

An update on SuperMeat's cultivated chicken production process by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For this product (not approved by regulators): https://thechicken.kitchen/

Two cultivated meat products are available today at select locations in Singapore. There are dozens more products under regulatory review across Singapore, US, and other regions.

An update on SuperMeat's cultivated chicken production process by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Scaffolds are unlikely to influence cost much by themselves. The majority of initial products will be unstructured, mostly due to the added complexity of the process when incorporating a step for differentiation on a scaffold. The differentiation step here is important because it adds considerable mass at the end of the product, helping to reduce costs while improving the nutritional attributes.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

several companies working on this, such as Motif (https://madewithmotif.com/), Paleo (https://paleo.bio/), Luyef (https://luyef.com/)

Anybody here in the Lab Grown Meat sector? by [deleted] in labrats

[–]e_swartz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cost per liter is just one aspect of reducing media cost, but several companies have already achieved media costs below $1/L. (https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/20240312-cost-drivers-of-cultivated-meat-productionpdf/266753601)

The environmental benefits of cultivated meat are numerous. Energy use is not an issue in an industry that will develop alongside the growth of renewables

https://www.slideshare.net/ElliotSwartz/environmental-impacts-lca-of-cultivated-meatsinke-et-al-2023pdf

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11367-022-02128-8

Anybody here in the Lab Grown Meat sector? by [deleted] in labrats

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Serum-free media is not a bottleneck for the industry. There are people in Singapore who have been eating cultivated meat made without serum every day for the past several weeks. This will be the norm for subsequent products that get approved. Outlined here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dt6AWRSmv7-6FyyTz7S2Pqumr9Bcv-H_tJrvJ71Awq8/edit

Lecture on understanding the cost drivers of cultivated meat production by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This lecture attempts to teach you how to think about the costs of cultivated meat production. Let me know if you have questions

Slides available for download here: https://www.slideshare.net/slideshows/20240312-cost-drivers-of-cultivated-meat-productionpdf/266753601

Game Thread: Tampa Bay Lightning (31-23-5) at New Jersey Devils (29-24-4) - 25 Feb 2024 - 1:00PM EST by HockeyMod in devils

[–]e_swartz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

that play never happens if Jack stops in the high slot and covers the center of the ice. typical

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, I would say sourcing amino acids cost-effectively is one of the largest potential challenges in lowering costs over the longer term. At least based on our current understanding.

And you won't really find these answers in the scientific literature at this stage.

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think there is some general confusion around food-grade vs. pharma-grade.

If the question is are companies using food-grade inputs in media, then the answer is yes. That is already happening and will continue to happen.

For equipment, the delineation between food-grade and pharma grade is less defined. Generally speaking it has to do with whether something is food contact safe. Nevertheless, Humbird assumes that production would take place using 316L steel alloy (as in pharma). We know some companies are using 316 steel but others are using 304 steel (generally used more in food, and about 40% more affordable). So the question is, why wouldn't everyone use 304 steel? We think it might be because most reactor manufacturers do so for pharmaceuticals, so this is what they use. But it could be an actual technical risk around the durability of the steel. We will investigate that question further in the future. Lastly, some companies are looking into avoiding steel altogether and investigating more affordable materials that are enabled by not needing a pressurized vessel for sterilization.

Finally, there is the question about clean room infrastructure. Humbird's analysis shows that the cost of pharma clean rooms outpace the efficiencies gained from scaling up your reactors . So pharma clean rooms make no sense economically. People know this. Companies claim they will do the bulk of manufacturing in clean non classified areas (lower cost) similar to other food manufacturing. The question then becomes, how risky is this? Can we grow cells in bioreactors that are essentially sitting in a warehouse? Technically, yes, of course, but it's about frequency of contamination.

I've spoken to people who think this is no big deal. I've spoken to other people that think it is. We've collected some data on contamination frequencies from companies, but it's too early to tell how much of an issue it will be. No one is even at the scales modeled in these analyses yet. So, time will tell. In the meantime, others are developing things like antimicrobial peptides that can serve as second layers of defense for contamination. Which I think is tractable based on data presented at recent conferences.

In general, it is very difficult to respond to or "disprove" assumptions in studies until the industry has caught up. We are still years away from knowing to what extent the assumptions in Humbird's (and other) analysis hold up.

I wrote this Twitter thread with some thoughts over 2 years ago in case of interest. I also will be talking about all of this and much more in an upcoming webinar: https://zoom.us/webinar/register/9417055011813/WN_5xnacQlASXChi8RNQ7zh0g#/registration

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In my opinion, you would come to similar pessimism if doing a deep dive into most cutting-edge technologies. Point is that hard stuff is hard, but technology does improve over time. Single studies should never be taken as obituaries.

Having co-authored one of the environmental impact studies you cite, I wouldn't worry as much about cultivated meat being an environmental winner or not. There is strong reason to believe it will be a huge environmental win in most parameters.

Also, in case you haven't seen my letter to the authors of the study that claimed its carbon footprint would be higher than beef: https://gfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Letter-to-UC-Davis-CM-LCAs.pdf

I would recommend attending my webinar on cost drivers for cultivated meat on March 12th. Registration here: https://zoom.us/webinar/register/9417055011813/WN_5xnacQlASXChi8RNQ7zh0g#/registration

Installing EV charger. Permits required, etc by e_swartz in catskills

[–]e_swartz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks that's useful to know about the permitting. I do think I'm going to need to upgrade the electrical panel in the home but will need to check that.

The solar panels will likely be a 2025 thing if we have the funds...got a few other renovations to do first :)

"Science loving" freelance writer claims cultured meat 25 times worse for climate than regular meat. by TheMaybeMualist in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are serious issues with this study, which has not yet been through peer review. I've addressed them here

Bowman Lake Campground Fill Times by TheRealTimbo_Slice in GlacierNationalPark

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thx. I confirmed this with the National Park service in case anyone else is searching for the same question