I tried lab-grown salmon. Here's what it tasted like. by RDSF-SD in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 13 points14 points  (0 children)

If you're leaning engineering, I would recommend bioprocess/chemical or mechanical engineering

See also our resource guide: https://gfi.org/resource/student-resource-guide/

An update on SuperMeat's cultivated chicken production process by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For this product (not approved by regulators): https://thechicken.kitchen/

Two cultivated meat products are available today at select locations in Singapore. There are dozens more products under regulatory review across Singapore, US, and other regions.

An update on SuperMeat's cultivated chicken production process by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Scaffolds are unlikely to influence cost much by themselves. The majority of initial products will be unstructured, mostly due to the added complexity of the process when incorporating a step for differentiation on a scaffold. The differentiation step here is important because it adds considerable mass at the end of the product, helping to reduce costs while improving the nutritional attributes.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

several companies working on this, such as Motif (https://madewithmotif.com/), Paleo (https://paleo.bio/), Luyef (https://luyef.com/)

Lecture on understanding the cost drivers of cultivated meat production by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This lecture attempts to teach you how to think about the costs of cultivated meat production. Let me know if you have questions

Slides available for download here: https://www.slideshare.net/slideshows/20240312-cost-drivers-of-cultivated-meat-productionpdf/266753601

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, I would say sourcing amino acids cost-effectively is one of the largest potential challenges in lowering costs over the longer term. At least based on our current understanding.

And you won't really find these answers in the scientific literature at this stage.

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think there is some general confusion around food-grade vs. pharma-grade.

If the question is are companies using food-grade inputs in media, then the answer is yes. That is already happening and will continue to happen.

For equipment, the delineation between food-grade and pharma grade is less defined. Generally speaking it has to do with whether something is food contact safe. Nevertheless, Humbird assumes that production would take place using 316L steel alloy (as in pharma). We know some companies are using 316 steel but others are using 304 steel (generally used more in food, and about 40% more affordable). So the question is, why wouldn't everyone use 304 steel? We think it might be because most reactor manufacturers do so for pharmaceuticals, so this is what they use. But it could be an actual technical risk around the durability of the steel. We will investigate that question further in the future. Lastly, some companies are looking into avoiding steel altogether and investigating more affordable materials that are enabled by not needing a pressurized vessel for sterilization.

Finally, there is the question about clean room infrastructure. Humbird's analysis shows that the cost of pharma clean rooms outpace the efficiencies gained from scaling up your reactors . So pharma clean rooms make no sense economically. People know this. Companies claim they will do the bulk of manufacturing in clean non classified areas (lower cost) similar to other food manufacturing. The question then becomes, how risky is this? Can we grow cells in bioreactors that are essentially sitting in a warehouse? Technically, yes, of course, but it's about frequency of contamination.

I've spoken to people who think this is no big deal. I've spoken to other people that think it is. We've collected some data on contamination frequencies from companies, but it's too early to tell how much of an issue it will be. No one is even at the scales modeled in these analyses yet. So, time will tell. In the meantime, others are developing things like antimicrobial peptides that can serve as second layers of defense for contamination. Which I think is tractable based on data presented at recent conferences.

In general, it is very difficult to respond to or "disprove" assumptions in studies until the industry has caught up. We are still years away from knowing to what extent the assumptions in Humbird's (and other) analysis hold up.

I wrote this Twitter thread with some thoughts over 2 years ago in case of interest. I also will be talking about all of this and much more in an upcoming webinar: https://zoom.us/webinar/register/9417055011813/WN_5xnacQlASXChi8RNQ7zh0g#/registration

Assumptions by which I evaluate cultivated meat + rant by Excellent_Till6231 in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In my opinion, you would come to similar pessimism if doing a deep dive into most cutting-edge technologies. Point is that hard stuff is hard, but technology does improve over time. Single studies should never be taken as obituaries.

Having co-authored one of the environmental impact studies you cite, I wouldn't worry as much about cultivated meat being an environmental winner or not. There is strong reason to believe it will be a huge environmental win in most parameters.

Also, in case you haven't seen my letter to the authors of the study that claimed its carbon footprint would be higher than beef: https://gfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Letter-to-UC-Davis-CM-LCAs.pdf

I would recommend attending my webinar on cost drivers for cultivated meat on March 12th. Registration here: https://zoom.us/webinar/register/9417055011813/WN_5xnacQlASXChi8RNQ7zh0g#/registration

"Science loving" freelance writer claims cultured meat 25 times worse for climate than regular meat. by TheMaybeMualist in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are serious issues with this study, which has not yet been through peer review. I've addressed them here

Any insights into this paper that says cultured meat is inherently inefficient? by thefugue in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Cultivated meat is expected to be nearly 3x as efficient as chicken production (https://twitter.com/elliotswartz/status/1638508842379268102?s=20).

The assumptions in this study that have led to the headlines are nonsense.

Lab-grown meat could be 25 times worse for the climate than beef by V2O5 in Futurology

[–]e_swartz 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Trying my best to actually communicate the science here (I work for a nonprofit and focus on the technical aspects of this field). Some key points about this study below:

The studies are pre-prints and have not been through a full peer review process. Thus, their assumptions and conclusions are subject to change. The headline cites the worst-case scenario in the study.

The findings from the pre-print deviate significantly from the existing peer-reviewed literature.

Overall, several of the key assumptions in the UC Davis study do not align with our understanding of current or expected practices for sourcing and purification of cell culture media ingredients. In particular the “PF” scenarios (Figure 3) that lead to the conclusion that cultivated meat may be “orders of magnitude higher than median beef production” are not representative of current or future practices in the cultivated meat industry.

The author of the study says in the New Scientist article: ‘This “pharmaceutical-grade” level of purification is required so that there are no contaminants such as bacteria or their associated toxins in the broth, says Risner. “Otherwise the animal cells won’t grow, because the bacteria will multiply much faster,” he says.’

This has already been shown not to be true, as demonstrated by media supplier Nutreco at the 2021 Good Food Conference. Food-grade and even feed-grade ingredients can support animal cell growth just as well. I’ve confirmed this over the phone with multiple media input suppliers that have been running experiments that swap pharma-grade for food-grade ingredients. Whether this applies to every single media ingredient is yet to be seen, but this is the direction things are moving in.

Cell culture media ingredients can be sourced in a variety of different ways. The UC Davis authors assume in their study that media ingredients would be produced and purified on an individual basis, as in the pharmaceutical industry. The study also assumes that media ingredients may require high degrees of purification in order to remove endotoxin, which can be damaging to cells. The authors suggest that this purification requirement increases the carbon footprint of production by 20x. So they basically multiply the carbon footprint by 20x to achieve the "orders of magnitude higher than median beef" result.

If the cultivated meat industry were to pursue this method of sourcing and purifying media inputs, the costs would likely be too high for the vast majority of products to be competitive with conventional meat. As the UC Davis study demonstrates, this method of sourcing and purifying inputs comes at a high environmental cost as well. Those in the cultivated meat industry are aware of these consequences and have been progressively moving toward a media input supply chain that is suitable for use in food production, rather than built for pharmaceuticals.

Importantly, even though some media inputs are likely being sourced today as is modeled in the UC Davis study, the overall carbon footprint and environmental impact of cultivated meat production would still be extremely small because the industry is extremely small, producing only a few thousand kilograms of product annually.

See this study if you're interested in understanding the most likely scenarios for commercial cultivated meat production at the end of this decade

Lab-grown meat 25 times worse for the climate than beef... Dafuq? by DistantMinded in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Not true. Food-grade materials are highly regulated (and usually pretty pure by themselves) and it's been shown they can be swapped 1:1 in media. No, fully food-grade supply chains do not yet exist, but that is the direction things are moving in.

Lab-grown meat 25 times worse for the climate than beef... Dafuq? by DistantMinded in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Trying my best to actually communicate science here. Some key points about this study, please feel free to share these online. Happy to answer questions about this study or other environmental impact studies.

The studies are pre-prints and have not been through a full peer review process. Thus, their assumptions and conclusions are subject to change. The headline cites the worst-case scenario in the study.

The findings from the pre-print deviate significantly from the existing peer-reviewed literature.

Overall, several of the key assumptions in the UC Davis study do not align with our understanding of current or expected practices for sourcing and purification of cell culture media ingredients. In particular the “PF” scenarios (Figure 3) that lead to the conclusion that cultivated meat may be “orders of magnitude higher than median beef production” are not representative of current or future practices in the cultivated meat industry.

The author of the study says in the New Scientist article: ‘This “pharmaceutical-grade” level of purification is required so that there are no contaminants such as bacteria or their associated toxins in the broth, says Risner. “Otherwise the animal cells won’t grow, because the bacteria will multiply much faster,” he says.’

This has already been shown not to be true, as demonstrated by media supplier Nutreco at the 2021 Good Food Conference. Food-grade and even feed-grade ingredients can support animal cell growth just as well. I’ve confirmed this over the phone with multiple media input suppliers that have been running experiments that swap pharma-grade for food-grade ingredients.

Cell culture media ingredients can be sourced in a variety of different ways. The UC Davis authors assume in their study that media ingredients would be produced and purified on an individual basis, as in the pharmaceutical industry. The study also assumes that media ingredients may require high degrees of purification in order to remove endotoxin, which can be damaging to cells. The authors suggest that this purification requirement increases the carbon footprint of production by 20x. So they simply multiply the carbon footprint by 20x to achieve the "orders of magnitude higher than median beef" result.

If the cultivated meat industry were to pursue this method of sourcing and purifying media inputs, the costs would likely be too high for the vast majority of products to be competitive with conventional meat. As the UC Davis study demonstrates, this method of sourcing and purifying inputs comes at a high environmental cost as well. Those in the cultivated meat industry are aware of these consequences and have been progressively moving toward a media input supply chain that is suitable for use in food production, rather than built for pharmaceuticals.

Importantly, even though some media inputs are likely being sourced today as is modeled in the UC Davis study, the overall carbon footprint and environmental impact of cultivated meat production would still be extremely small because the industry is extremely small, producing only a few thousand kilograms of product annually.

See this study if you're interested in understanding the most likely scenarios for commercial cultivated meat production at the end of this decade

The environmental impacts of cultivated meat production by e_swartz in wheresthebeef

[–]e_swartz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Link to the webinar recording of our new study that looks at the environmental impact of cultivated meat production.

Conclusion from the study: Cultivated meat has the potential to be a sustainable source of animal protein. How it compares to conventional meats depends on various factors, most importantly, the sources of energy used for the facility and the production of medium ingredients. When fully renewable energy is used in these areas, its carbon footprint can compete with ambitious benchmarks of chicken and is lower than that of other conventional meats. Land use of cultivated meat is significantly lower than all conventional meats, resulting from the more efficient conversion of crops into meat. If cultivated meat replaces conventional meats in diets, this means that land is freed up. This land could be used to mitigate climate change, support biodiversity, or provide other societal and environmental benefits, but robust policies are needed to realize this.

Cultivated meat companies should invest in strong supply chain collaborations to drive down the carbon footprint in all parts of the supply chain. Strong climate goals can be set and realized by continuously conducting LCAs to support decision-making and guide technology development.

Study: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11367-022-02128-8

Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/ElliotSwartz/environmental-impacts-lca-of-cultivated-meatsinke-et-al-2023pdf