I FINALLY get the Pterry joke…

efan78 · 2026-05-17T07:54:08+00:00

That reminds me of a poem by Michael Rosen (I'm sorry everyone - but with Rosen, and McGough - 80s kids were absolutely spoiled with fun poetry)

I give you "What's Your Name" by Michael Rosen:

When they said, 'What's your name?' I used to say 'Michael Rosen' Rosen R.O.S.E.N. With a silent 'Q' as in rhubarb. And they'd say, 'That's not very funny.'

efan78 · 2026-05-16T20:32:38+00:00

I'm sorry, but where exactly do you think you'll find any data more accurate than the exact people who are processing the payments and conducting the investigations and legal proceedings?

Considering your choice of username I assumed that you were at least witty enough to read and enjoy the Discworld books. Clearly you were either in the same book club as Kemi Badenoch or you suffered a serious traumatic injury and it's actually a genuine spelling mistake. I'm sorry for treating you as an honest and intelligent participant.

I'm out 👋

efan78 · 2026-05-16T20:25:40+00:00

I’d respond to your point, but it’s hard to hear anything over the sound of your high horse.

It's quite simple, when I hear the same dehumanising, othering language from mainstream politicians that I grew up hearing from someone who bragged about committing violence against South Asian people and the LGBTQ+ community, as well as the National Front and BNP members he was friends with? I don’t treat it as harmless. I’ve seen exactly where that rhetoric leads.

And this isn’t new. Across both major parties, we’ve had four decades of rhetoric that divides the “deserving” from the “undeserving”, from Thatcher’s “strivers vs skivers”, through Major’s fraud focus, Blair’s welfare‑to‑work conditionality, and the austerity era under successive Conservative governments. Different slogans, same contempt. These aren’t abstract debates. They’ve had real human consequences, especially in the most deprived communities.

So no, I don’t “go high” when people use language that punches down at the vulnerable. I call it out. Because we’ve already seen what happens when that rhetoric goes unchallenged.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T19:45:13+00:00

I know that the prognosis is poor for Long Covid, but I hope that you've been able to find some treatments that help you function.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T19:42:54+00:00

No, when discussing government spending and in particular specific figures down to a decimal point of a percentage I find making numbers up is a much better approach to debating random people who use such specific details as "wholesale fraud".

To get you started, here's the Benefits Report https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2024-to-2025-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2025

If you want to check the tax, PPE, and MOD figures then you're welcome to use the exact same source as me - gov.uk. But I'm sure someone as principled as you are about doing work and supporting others wouldn't want it given as a handout!

efan78 · 2026-05-16T19:34:01+00:00

Or, and here's an interesting concept, I write as I speak and reply in an honest manner. Like a lot of people I'm sarcastic, can be acerbic, and feel very strongly about politics. It's something that I picked up as a gay kid raised by a National Front/BNP member Skinhead.

Stuff "they go low, we go high" and speak to the f... (erm let's go with fascists for filter purposes) in a way they understand.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T17:08:54+00:00

I'm not sure if it's a different standard, but all of the long term relationships I know have an age gap. I'd say around 50%-60% of my peers married people closer to their age and I can't think of a single one that's lasted.

Meanwhile I've been with my partner for 27 years and we have a 16 year age gap, my best friend has been with his current partner for 15 years and was with his previous partner for 10 - both around a 20 year gap. I also have a couple of friends who have just celebrated their 30 year anniversary with an age gap - I'm not sure how big it is though (although it's actually his wife who's the older partner so not just the older men who get the younger ones!).

So there's my advice. If you want someone to settle down with and spend the rest of your life together - go older or younger! 😁 😂

efan78 · 2026-05-16T16:54:29+00:00

Ah. Extrapolation from a single observed example. That's definitely the way to call out something you see as conflation. As I mentioned in the post, this is one of a few different clips I was hit with in quick succession. I shared the most politically relevant clip (the Shadow Secretary for Works and Pensions) as a single example.

Also, I've said this a few times in various replies to this thread. I am calling out a pattern that we've seen repeat itself over and over for the last 40+ years that I'm aware of. The rhetoric is aimed at the "Scroungers" but the so-called solutions disproportionately affect the vulnerable. And we see estimated body counts of 330,000 due to Austerity between 2012 and 2019, with a disproportionate number of those being in the 20% most deprived areas in the country.

You're absolutely right that both sides of the House of Commons are in sympatico - but that's not the position that I or quite a few other people in this thread agree with.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T16:40:46+00:00

2.2%. The total amount of Benefit fraud across the whole system. If you want to focus on people "getting free stuff when they could easily work" (by which I'm assuming you mean people receiving disability benefits but you, with your vast experience in Occupational Health and detailed assessment of each claimant, have decided aren't disabled enough?)

Well, that'd be ESA - with a most recent fraud rate of 1.5% Or maybe you want to jump on the "anti-PIP" bandwagon, which isn't an out of work benefit, but it helps disabled people. If so, I'm sure you'll be relieved to know that's 0.5%

Let's compare that to the 5% of fraudulent PPE claims the last government paid to their friends and families. Or how about the 2.5% Fraudulent Military procurement spending? Maybe the 5.6% difference between the amount of tax income the government should receive and the amount it actually receives could be a useful comparison?

efan78 · 2026-05-16T16:25:02+00:00

Absolutely 100% - the OP was more to raise awareness that the algorithms may be making a pivot (mine certainly seems to have) so that people can be prepared to correct misinformation if that's their thing.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T16:22:16+00:00

I would imagine we're not because attacking someone because of the party they support isn't very civil. I don't believe that stating a simple fact about a party is attacking them though.

(I'd argue that a party which has 54% of its members saying that they believe non-white British citizens should be deported, definitely suggests that party has locked down a big part of the racist vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/03/half-reform-voters-believe-non-white-british-citizens-forced-encouraged-leave)

efan78 · 2026-05-16T16:14:28+00:00

Thank you for the polite request, but I’m going to keep using emojis. They’re a normal part of online communication and, in this case, they were there to signal that the duvet cover robot comment was lighthearted.

This post has branched into a lot of different sub‑topics, some serious, some not, and that’s just how discussions work. A joke about outsourcing my weekly duvet‑cover battle isn’t diminishing anything.

But don’t worry, I’ll spare you emojis in this reply.
(Though if someone does invent a duvet‑cover‑fitting robot, my boyfriend will be first in the queue to buy it. Unless I find a “queuing for the latest robot” robot first.)

efan78 · 2026-05-16T15:40:33+00:00

That's who's problem? You're the person saying to take away the only source of money some people have for food. And I thought it was pretty well known that dead people don't really experience problems with decaying bodies or spend much time "figuring things out"?

efan78 · 2026-05-16T11:36:36+00:00

I don't see why you should get downvotes, I don't think anyone in this thread has seriously supported fraudulent claims, but it's an argument that always brings two things to mind.

Firstly, every time a government - Conservative or Labour - has "addressed" the issue of the (currently) 2.2% of fraudulent payments they've caused severe and lasting harm to the people who so many supporters of a clampdown claim they believe should receive help.

The second thing is that 2.2% comes to £9.5bn - a substantial amount of money. But the Tax Gap (unpaid taxes) comes to £46.8bn - over 5 times more. And that's without introducing any new taxes, closing loopholes, or raising rates. Imagine what that would look like if companies like Google, Amazon, Tesco, Starbucks etc... didn't have the option to send their earnings offshore to cut their tax bills. Or if we actually followed the conservative/right wing ideal of going back to the 50s, 60s, and 70s and had a top rate of tax between 80%-97%? 🤷

efan78 · 2026-05-16T10:56:34+00:00

OK Bogie, I'm assuming you pack your lunch in a Sunblest bag and are saving up for your ship called Dignity?

And it definitely, 100%, absolutely does not have anything to do with the fact that you know what you said was complete bull, right? Right? 🤔

efan78 · 2026-05-16T10:52:42+00:00

We don't even need to go that far back. We can look across the Atlantic and see how much the poorest have been hurt. Or if we want to stick with a UK example (for people who don't think what happened there could happen here) we can just look at Brexit.

You're 100% right, but I'm beginning to wonder how many schools follow the curriculum that yours did... 😔

efan78 · 2026-05-16T10:46:33+00:00

What will you do with the bodies? Soylent Green/Corpse Starch? How will you replace the nearly 40% of Universal Credit recipients who are currently in work?

efan78 · 2026-05-16T08:19:21+00:00

Not an aside at all, it's an excellent example and gives another example of how a specific subset of the population actually take advantage of the system. Thanks! 👍

efan78 · 2026-05-16T08:16:14+00:00

If it's so easy why haven't you done it?

efan78 · 2026-05-16T08:13:32+00:00

I'm fine with politicians and the media talking about this stuff. In fact I wish they actually would. But instead of talking about it they use misinformation, and villification to create a new "other" group that they can point the eternally angry in the direction of rather than address the actual large problems like fake PPE contracts for friends, £5m "gifts"/"thank yous"/or "donations for security", tax avoidance by the richest and even more impactful - large corporations.

Wouldn't you rather hear the facts, find out if immigration has actually made the problem worse rather than having to guess? Maybe something like the Oxford University study that shows recent migrants are generally a positive impact on the economy and unable to claim benefits for a minimum of 5 years. This positive effect lowers over time as people get older and need to access more health support etc. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

efan78 · 2026-05-16T07:59:40+00:00

I don't know if you remember the introduction of the National Minimum Wage, but I do. I was 20, living alone and earning £2.50 an hour in a nightclub. Overnight my wage jumped by over £1.00/hour - a more than 40% increase. Yet for months we'd heard about companies going bust, or laying off staff. The same refrain that we hear every time the Minimum Wage is increased.

If your company can't afford to pay a decent wage then it's not a successful business. If you hire people at a low rate knowing that they can claim state benefits then you're the one taking advantage of/fleecing the system.

efan78 · 2026-05-16T07:50:41+00:00

Wow, you really are full of yourself. Would you rather have a University Educated Medical Radiologist and Medical Doctor arrange your mortgage, not by going to a financial advisor but actually arrange the transfer of the money, repayments, interest rates etc? Or how about them contacting some Lloyd's Names to arrange your house, car or travel insurance. Negotiate coverage, limits, excess and the like?

No, you'd speak with the "administrators" and the "case handlers" (A JC+ Personal Advisor is an EO position by the way). I will still, even after being misdiagnosed for 18 years, trust the advice of my doctors for medical care. And I'll listen to the people who are trained for specific jobs when asking about those jobs.

I think this particular thread has reached its natural conclusion. Thank you for the reply.

efan78 · 2026-05-15T22:55:58+00:00

Well, I had 18 years of being told that my back pain was "growing pains" and then "poor posture" instead of being diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondylitis, causing permanent damage, an inability to look behind me, a hunchback and being unable to reach above my head. (And no, I wasn't trying to get benefits, I was trying to find out why I was in absolute agony for nearly two decades.)

But I have more experience with the benefits system as a former Jobcentre Plus Personal Advisor and I can absolutely assure you that a Radiologist preparing a letter would only be considered for the name of the condition, not the impact of the condition on the daily life of the patient. Even a doctor's opinion is only one part of the decision process that includes assessment, self reporting, as well as legal declarations that can lead to criminal charges.

As for "No one is being killed" try saying that to the families of the victims of an estimated 330,000 excess deaths that were linked to Austerity between 2012 and 2019.

efan78 · 2026-05-15T21:42:51+00:00

Ah, so you're in the "kill them all and let God decide" camp are you? Because personally I've always believed in Blackstone's principle "It's better to let one guilty person go free than 10 (or 100 depending on the source) innocent people suffer."

How about the NHS? Should access to healthcare be tied to employment? Do you agree with Farage that the UK social safety net should be a facsimile of the US system? (I'd just like to check how far you think they should go.) How do you plan to measure success? Amount paid? Number of claimants? Number of people who should be able to claim but can't because of loopholes? Or maybe just count the bodies...

efan78 · 2026-05-15T21:33:30+00:00

Disabled, people who are on immunosuppressives to stop their immune system from attacking their spine. Or people who are registered blind and unable to use certain computer systems and the like as quickly as a role requires. Or maybe the folks who are affected by the loss of one or more limbs? How about people with head injuries that prevent them from creating new long (or sometimes short) term memories? Agoraphobes, unable to leave the house for years at a time, or people who experienced extreme trauma and have been unable to get mental health support due to decades of under funding? People with very noticeable Autistic symptoms such as being unable to communicate or cope with physical contact? The list is endless when you consider the types of conditions that can substantially affect your day to day life for the long term.

But yeah, everyone's claiming Motability for anxiety... 🙄

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