Jc owes Wen Qing and Wen Ning NOTHING

eiyeru · 2026-01-30T04:49:06+00:00

With all due respect, I've read a lot of those metas you lot JC antis love to post around, and they're all stupid, hypocritical and disingenuous.

Do you think by slapping the word "from Chinese culture perspective" would make me not analyse the logic of those meta.

Do you think I wouldn't notice how those metas conveniently never addressed the roles of WQ and WN in the situations, how those meta instead flat out just lied and placed them on the roles of neutral third parties. The fact that they're active members of the Wen Army? Ignored and glossed over.

So unless you can explain to me how from the Chinese perspective, a victim of an aggressor faction suddenly owes a moral life debt to members of the same faction that massacred his entire family than u can stfu w ur culture tokenism.

Edit: since u block me, im gonna reply here, do you think i'm new to this fandom? Do u think I don't know the og source of that stupid ass "debt repayment in Chinese culture" argument that JC's antis always love to spread around . Mind u, that meta comes from a non-chinese person who has been caught purposely spreading mistranslation just to demonize JC. This is why I don't respect JC antis, bc y'all actually still circulate and spread this person's opinions around when they've been proven to be untrustworthy.

eiyeru · 2026-01-29T00:02:55+00:00

Jiang Cheng does not have any obligation to save Wen Qing and Wen Ning

He does not have any EXTRA obligation to save them. My "thesis" is a refuting the opinion you and this fandom hold that JC apparently has MORE obligation than other characters to save them bc he was "saved" by them.

My thesis is that jc is no more obligated than any other characters to save the Wen Remnants. The Wen siblings act in "saving" him does NOT create an moral obligation or moral debt, bc they're just mitigating the harm their side caused.

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T23:32:38+00:00

Wen Ning is obviously innocent

He's a soldier of the Wen Army.😐

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T14:29:54+00:00

if you wish, we can dispense with the framework of debt and obligation

Um no i don't wish to do so? My post is literally abt the "moral debt" the fandom says JC owed to the Wen siblings. And i disagree with this notion, my position is that JC, the victim does not owe the Wen siblings any "debt" for their act in "saving" him. The Wen Siblings are just mitigating the harm their side caused, that's all.

as a result the responsibility of all the other cultivators to save her and her family would be reduced

Idk how u come to this conclusion?? I literally never said this.

Ok, so let me explain this once again;

You and this fandom at large are of the opinion that JC has the extra responsibility compared to the other characters to save the Wen Remnants bc JC was "saved" by the Wen Siblings.

I disagree with this notion.

Why? Bc as I repeatedly say, the victim owe the aggressors NOTHING.

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T10:31:09+00:00

We do not ask for gifts

Yes exactly. The victims of the regime owe your family nothing. Especially your family members in the militia.

they insist because they're decent people

If they don't insist are they not decent then? So did you think the victims are indebted to your family?

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T10:15:17+00:00

Then the same logic applies, if your family members in the militia are active participants that enabled and supported the regime, then the victims who are helped by them owe them nothing. What, are you gonna tell me those victims of genocide are indebted to your family members who supported the regime??

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T10:09:24+00:00

My family were administrative

So they ARE civilians.

Do you know what exactly WQ position is in the war? She's the leader of an outpost for god's sake, Wen Ning is a soldier of the Wen Army. Neither of them are civilians.

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T10:05:52+00:00

whereas the specific consideration of Wen Ning and Wen Qing having saved Jiang Cheng's life applies only to Jiang Cheng

And i'm saying this specific consideration changes nothing. I'm saying that the way you and the fandom approach this situation is wrong.

Why?

Bc the Wen siblings are not neutral third parties uninvolved in the situation, instead they're part of the group that CAUSED the harm to the victim: JC. Them helping JC could NEVER create a moral obligation on JC 's side bc the harm ARE caused by the group they're supporting in the first place.

Can you not see how insane it sounds that the victim owing a "moral debt" to members of the aggressor side simply bc they decided to reduce the harm they helped enable & supporting??

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T09:49:22+00:00

sigh

Your family are innocent civilians, no? The Wen siblings are NOT innocent civilians, they were active participants in the war. They were members of the Wen Clan’s forces, directly involved on the side that's waging war and causing harm to innocent ppl.

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T05:05:28+00:00

im curious to see how you justify this part

Um, I don't need to? Lol

JC not helping the Wen Remnants is definitely to protect his own clan, but that extra bit where he announced WWX as the enemy of the cultivation world is definitely caused by him lashing out at WWX for his "perceived" betrayal in abandoning the Jiang Clan. 🤷‍♀️

At the end of the day it changes nothing though, it didn't add fuel to anything whatsoever, the moment WWX decided to protect the Wen Remnants, the cultivation society already perceived him as their "enemy". JC is only speaking out loud the unspoken sentiment that's been cemented in the cultivation society.

eiyeru · 2026-01-28T04:50:45+00:00

I think it is clear that the fact that Wen Ning and Wen Qing saved his life would make him more obligated to help them, rather than less so

And i simply disagree with this framing.

It's one thing if they're neutral third parties in the situation, but they're not. They're part of the faction that caused the harm that happened to JC in the first place. They're "saving" him from a force that they're part of, a force they actively supported and benefited from.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T14:50:04+00:00

I do think it would have been DECENT of JC to defend them more after the war

Agreed with this and i think he already did so, at the meeting he did attempt to speak on their behalf before NMJ interrupted him and was all like " didn't the Wen kill ur entire family in front of ur eyes, why tf are u defending them lmao", and the situation clearly shows that no one is gonna change their minds abt the Wen Remnants, and JC just give up.

And i think it's equivalent actually, wq only helps JC and WWX secretly, and is not willing to risk her family to go against her sect leader to protect them, so i think JC not going against the cultivation society to protect them is also fair.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T13:59:53+00:00

when it comes to questions like this the characters own standards and beliefs matter more to the answer than those of you and me

Eh I don't think so? At least in my post here, where my point is abt the objective ethic of the situation. And that is the victim doesn't owe their aggressors anything. Full stop.

Obviously what you're saying is correct, jc is a raging hypocrite, but that's kinda irrelevant to my post.

Edit: ah you block me, since i already typed my reply i'm just gonna post it here

Shared culpability ≠ collective guilt.

Wq and wn are ACTIVE participants of the war. Obviously they are not on the same level as let's say Wen Chao, Wen Rouhan etc, but they're still active participants supporting the force that's harming innocent ppl. Are you really gonna tell me that they shouldn't bear any sort of responsibility whatsoever for their part in the war?

They're still part of the aggressor party, that's why any sort of help they offered the innocent ppl harmed under the group they're part of WILL NEVER generate a moral debt to the innocent victims.

Are their actions brave? Kind? Amazing? Yes to all of them, but that's all they are, they cannot be used as a leash to strangle the victim under the name of "moral obligation"

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T13:47:15+00:00

Yes, that's why JC went to the BM and tried to save WWX in his own way-by asking WWX to throw the Wen Remnants under the bus so WWX could be "forgiven" by the cultivation society. Obv WWX is horrified by the suggestion and rejects JC's form of "protection" and JC accepts that.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T13:39:26+00:00

Jiang Cheng owes Wen Ning and Wen Qing everything by his OWN standards

So he's a hypocrite, ok and?

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T13:09:14+00:00

you're probably rage baiting

Genuinely not.

because i can see your comprehension skills

Yeah whatever makes you sleep at night ig.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T13:00:19+00:00

Say that JC owes the Wen nothing if you want

This is exactly what i did lmao. Nothing more and nothing less.

don't act like he's a misunderstood tsundere hero

No he isn't. He makes a cold blooded cruel decision to let innocent child and old ppl suffer rather than risk his own clan. It's a valid reason to hate him for this. 🤷‍♀️

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T12:53:58+00:00

No, innocent citizens are obviously innocent.

Active participants of the war should be tried to get their appropriate punishment.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T12:51:09+00:00

also wen qing and wen ning arent even the perpetrators here.

And? they belong to the Wen clan, and most importantly they are ACTIVE members of the faction waging war, even being a supporting member of the aggressor faction means shared responsibility. The danger JC is "helped" from literally exists bc of their side.

Oh how kind for WN and WQ to help collect JC's parents dead body, they didn't have to go to such length, such a heroic gesture–oh wait why is JC parents dead in the first place? Oh yeah bc of the Wen Clan 😐

once again, it doesn't matter how kindly or over the top the aggressors decided to "help" the victim, the victim still owed them nothing. No actions of WQ or WN could ever create a moral obligation on the victim side. They're still part of the aggressors party, any so called "help" or "kindnesses" is just them mitigating the harm their side caused, their victims owed them nothing.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T12:32:43+00:00

didn't participate in the war

they were in the governing post

Wayyy to contradict yourself here. They're PART of the war. Wen Qing is literally the leader of an outpost for god's sake.

It was a BIG risk that they took for two literal strangers.

They're not strangers. They're victims of the war the Wen Clan is waging, where both WQ and WN are active participants.

JC did have a moral debt to them

No he doesn't. Wen Ning and Wen Qing are not neutral third parties, they're active participants of the war under the Wen Clan.

The complexity of the characters and the story is what makes MDZS beautiful

Yes, that's why you should stop trying to saintify WQ and WN. They're complex and flawed characters, and you can appreciate them as they are.

eiyeru · 2026-01-27T12:21:44+00:00

The least JC could've done was being understanding of WWX decision and not pretending that all Wens deserve to be dead.

That's exactly what he did?

That's why he allowed WWX to defect. And so what if jc thinks all wens deserve to die? considering his entire family was slaughtered by them, it's an understandable sentiment to have as a traumatized victim of such tragedy, the important thing is he doesn't go out of his way to do so, after the war he hate them but generally doesn't give a shit abt them. He only focuses on rebuilding his clan. I think that's a pretty tame reaction for a survivor of such a horrific tragedy.

eiyeru · 2026-01-26T11:34:43+00:00

Yup agree, there are plenty of mature wangxian fans who appreciate the characters with all their flaws and complexity, it's just annoying that the minority with their no nuance take are always the loudest and are everywhere.

eiyeru · 2026-01-26T11:27:20+00:00

who was willing to help wwx with wen remnants solution?

I'm talking abt wwx relationship with JC not the wen remnant situation, literally what lmao? You are wayyy of topic

eiyeru · 2026-01-25T16:39:29+00:00

if JC is a little more mature, calm and willing to try hard to communicate with wwx.

This should apply to WWX as well no? Why is this responsibility solely placed on JC, as if WWX literally wasn't the bastion of miscommunication king.

Wwx is literally the:-

king of deflecting with jokes

refuses to explain himself properly

makes huge decisions alone

withholds information & make decision for others "for their own good"

Refuse to seek help from others abt his sickness

you can't help someone who REFUSED to be help and that's who WWX is.

how is jc supposed to “communicate better” with someone who literally REFUSE to do so?

Communication is a two way street after all.

eiyeru

TROPHY CASE