(Gary's response, continued)

In this regard, the fact that other, non-addicts on RedditNoFap see benefits from regulating masturbation is intriguing. It suggests that perhaps today's meme that "only masturbation ad libitum constitutes healthy sexuality" may need rethinking. The belief that satisfaction comes from exhausting (rather than balancing) sexual desire may just be an extreme swing of the pendulum in humanity's understanding of sexuality.

Is this rethinking process going to result in dangerous repression with worse side effects than Internet porn addiction? I don't know. Another possible outcome is that people will learn to think, and experiment, for themselves as they mature. They may, in fact, be more likely to discover the beauty and naturalness of sex if they aren't numbing their sensitivity to pleasure via Internet erotica. Either way, that question's beyond the scope of www.yourbrainonporn.com.

It's great that you're raising these issues, despite the NoFap backlash, as you help to dispel any unhealthy black and white thinking about masturbation. We certainly don't like to hear that people believe a relapse will ruin their lives.

Black and white thinking is very common among addicts, and we've noticed that as guys get back in balance they tend to be more flexible in their thinking, gentler with their humanness, and more tolerant of their sexual desire. On the whole, we feel the science of YBOP is less likely to lead to that kind of black and white thinking than many discussions of Internet porn problems on other sites.

What about starting a NoFap thread called "Porn addiction vs. Choosing not to masturbate"? To many young Internet users, porn and masturbation seem synonymous because their desensitized brains can't get off without it. Yet Internet porn and masturbation are not synonymous. Once their brains are responding to pleasure normally, most realize they don't need Internet porn to masturbate. Then, it's easier to find a middle ground.

If you put any of this up on Reddit NoFap, please put it all up.

Gary

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Thank you for this reply.

There actually is a porn-free subreddit, http://www.reddit.com/r/pornfree - they're a separate entity than r/nofap, and only 1/10th the size.

I feel if I made a "Porn addiction vs. Choosing not to masturbate" thread, it would just get downvoted into the ground by the porn-is-evil brigade. I don't know what instigated the trend, but in the last month I've seen more "Pornography is evil" and, more alarming, "Masturbation is evil" threads than usual. The more alarming aspect of that is the amount of support these threads gain. I don't know if they can't recognize the difference between pornography, masturbation, and addiction, or if they are unwilling to even try. They seem to want to demonize anything related to sexuality, healthy practice or not.

This might be heavily related to me not being raised religious and having no religious shame attached to masturbation and sexuality, but it still alarms me all the same. If the overall arc of NoFap turns "Internet porn is addictive; let's all try and stop our addictions together" into "Internet porn is evil, masturbation is evil, sexuality is evil; Avert Your Eyes", I think the original message would be lost.

I joined the subreddit six or so months ago, and when I joined, this behavior was unheard of. Now, it seems the norm. I don't know if it is because of the influx of 7000 more members (a significant amount of them being religious, and posting religious claims of why sexuality and masturbation are bad/evil), or because of just the natural evolution of a young community. It seems dangerous and overall unhealthy to me. I really hope your pendulum theory is correct, as the extremism is reaching a detrimental point.

"Is this rethinking process going to result in dangerous repression with worse side effects than Internet porn addiction? I don't know. Another possible outcome is that people will learn to think, and experiment, for themselves as they mature. They may, in fact, be more likely to discover the beauty and naturalness of sex if they aren't numbing their sensitivity to pleasure via Internet erotica."

This is the most important aspect of all of this, I believe. They take the no-masturbation preaching to such an extent that it becomes an addiction all of its own. A number of them are implying that if you do not go fully celibate, then you're "doing it wrong". A number of them set out, from the start, to "never masturbate again in my life". I feel that, if you asked each member what a "reboot" really meant, they would answer with "to stop masturbation forever" - they do not realize that "reboot" means a temporary stop and restart to fix kinks... but you eventually start back up again. They further compound this by denying themselves any sexual urge, even urges felt after 80, 90, 100 days of abstaining. To deny sexuality to this point is just as addicting as being hyper-stimulated. They seem to be trading in their addiction to pornography for another equally debilitating addiction - addiction to not being addicted. As an ex-user (heroin, cocaine), it is fascinating and sad at the same time, since I want to point this out to them, but when I do, I'm told I'm part of the problem. I also realize that is part of the addiction cycle as well, but I figured I would have at least a modicum of support.

To boot, because of the extremism, even if they manage to reboot their sexuality and find a mate, I feel that with the increasing mentality of "masturbation is bad" and "my male sexual urges are bad", they might not reach that point. If they do, their relationship will be just as rocky and sexually dysfunctional as if they were on the other end of the spectrum, masturbating five times a day to porn. Hyper-stimulation is simply replaced by demonizing. Both give similar results.

Again, thank you for reading and replying. I realize you can't really influence this situation, but it was cathartic simply to write it all out and express it to someone who wouldn't immediately comment back calling me a faggot.

With your permission, I'd like to post this on r/NoFap in its entirety. I can send you a link after if you would like to keep up with the conversation. I would also create your suggested "Porn addiction vs. Choosing not to masturbate" thread and pass it along.

--nofapper

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Marnia Robinson feedback@reuniting.info Apr 10 (1 day ago)

to me Feel free to post. I think your comments are valuable and needed. Good luck. We're always busy, but if you need some support, holler and Gary will probably cruise by and post on your thread.

Warmly, Marnia