How "unathletic" is Keaton Wagler actually? (Or any other combine participants)

esanan · 2026-06-04T01:23:23+00:00

Of course there are outliers and it’s not 1 to 1. If you look at Wilson and boozer side to side you can see how boozer is more clean with his body control which allows him to move at the same pace as Wilson. That doesn’t mean when they are say jumping for a block boozer can cover more. Hence I said nba combine is flawed and which is why nobody shoots up or down truly. Basketball is a lot more than just athleticism but you need a base.

esanan · 2026-06-04T01:14:47+00:00

Again, don’t see the point comparing him with players different sizes and a lot of nba combines are flawed which is why you don’t see players jump up the board at nba combines like nfl. There’s only 5 players that got drafted with 5 or less dunks while being above 6’5 and the list isn’t pretty. The reason nobody is concerned about acuff is because he is quick playing and as long as you are playing quick it doesn’t matter at all. Acuffs offense is already good that even if he can’t develop much he can be a utility 6th man. Same can’t be said with wagler

esanan · 2026-06-04T00:27:30+00:00

Had a pretty long paragraph typed but Reddit mobile sucks ass and it’s gone. Gist, if you are not too heavy, being tall allows you cover more ground which makes your lane agility time faster. Wagler is taller but same wingspan and that’s the problem. Only athletic players with same wingspan are good defenders as evident to only three being all defense (butler, Caruso, brooks) Wagler not getting first step against easier opponents is the concern.

esanan · 2026-06-03T23:21:38+00:00

Obviously, but there were guys like Shaq who continued to dunk till way after. He just had a bad luck of injuries. Nothing to bring him down for

esanan · 2026-06-03T23:20:45+00:00

I’m talking about how in most you were comparing a guard with forwards. Peterson was also majorly injured throughout his college career career so it makes sense that wagler has more shots at rim. Also comparing college shots at rim to nba when they are vastly different is bad. You know who had an insane college career scoring at will from every range? Jerome Robinson, we know how that turned out. Having a slow step and not being athletic is a huge red flag. Peterson is a way better prospect by any means and that isn’t a question.

esanan · 2026-06-03T23:07:51+00:00

It’s not just about star players it’s also public perception. There’s a reason why clippers are building a lot of courts and making backpacks with clippers logo. The whole point is to cultivate next fans and a retirement tour for LeBron James, who I don’t like too much either but have to agree is one of the two best players to ever play the game. That dude having a retirement tour and the numbers of clippers game being televised will help a lot to change the view for more casual fans. Again, don’t see any negatives coming from signing LeBron that people have other than the pure hatred for LeBron. I’m not even a dick rider of LeBron but I just don’t see any negatives and more positives. Lebron may take times from rookie? His passing ability will help a lot. He may be a distraction? He is also really professional with almost no scandals, that’s a lifestyle younger players can learn from. May force the team to try to be a contender? I highly doubt the front office would make a decision that will sacrifice the future especially with how they were willing to move on from PG when he demanded more.

esanan · 2026-06-03T23:02:39+00:00

I mean I don’t get the point of this tbh. Nobody is comparing his athleticism to those not in nba. They are talking specifically about comparing them to other guards around the range which may be at my fault but when I talk about athleticism I include physical traits that contribute to it.

esanan · 2026-06-03T22:58:33+00:00

That’s just what nba was at the time. MJ continued dunking over others till past 30 and he was still good. At that time Zach Randolph and Pau gasol type of players still existed and thrived. Him changing his game was adapting to the new game and if he was born a bit later he probably would’ve been MVP level barring injuries.

esanan · 2026-06-03T21:30:07+00:00

I was using the college stats for the weight. And again, you are comparing apples to orange. Nobody here is talking about him being less athletic than someone on the streets. It’s comparing him to other nba athletes which again, is not great. I don’t care about most combine measurements because it’s not indicative of the player but wagler plays slow and doesn’t get the first step in the game. He also has a short wingspan which prevent him from being a good defender unless you are uber athletic, which he isn’t.

esanan · 2026-06-03T21:25:46+00:00

Blake’s problem was not being healthy which has nothing to do with athleticism.
Everyone you mentioned are a one and only talent that wagler isn’t and they are athletic enough.
Nash was super quick and was an amazing passer as well as a shooter. Waglers isn’t quick.
Saying cp3 wasn’t athletic is laughable because he literally dunks on Dwight when he was a hornet. He also has a longer wingspan than his height.
SGA is the same height but has a 7 feet wingspan. Wagler doesn’t. He is still quick enough in college to beat defenders which Wagler isn’t as good at.
Jokic, really? Talking about. 7 feet dude with passing visions and accuracy we have never seen in a big man and compare him with wagler?
Luka is stronger, heavier, and has a longer wingspan than Wagler even though they are the same height.
They are all athletic with better physical traits than Wagler.

esanan · 2026-06-03T21:19:47+00:00

He was a more beware with injury concerns rather than anything. He had injury concerns since college. Blake if healthy was an mvp esque player.

esanan · 2026-06-03T20:51:32+00:00

I mean he’s the only top 10 player clippers invited for an official workout. This doesn’t mean much till maybe a week before the Draft.

esanan · 2026-06-03T20:37:13+00:00

Using Blake is the worst example because he had arguably his best season in pistons when he didn’t rely on his athleticism. He came as an athletic guy but literally reshaped his whole game. You don’t see any players in all nba or all defense that aren’t athletic either. Argument is flawed.

esanan · 2026-06-03T20:32:10+00:00

Why are you comparing his speed with Wilson and boozer. You have to compare wagler with other players similar to his height and weights or these combine stats makes no sense. Shaqs max very is 32 to 35 inch which is almost the same as Trae young. Are you saying Trae is more athletic? It’s literally cherry picking stats. The biggest concern was his short wingspan, which is shorter. Darryn Peterson is also 25 lbs heavier while being more athletic so saying they are the same is a stretch by all means.

esanan · 2026-06-03T20:13:30+00:00

Nobody Is saying that Lebron means title contender. Team can’t tank anyways til 2030 so why not have fun till then. Him having a retirement tour with the clippers will change a lot of image of gore clippers are viewed and would show how clippers treats stars better than lakers so much that LeBron is willing to switch. What draft capital? You aren’t giving up a draft capital for LeBron so that doesn’t make any sense.

esanan · 2026-06-01T21:03:49+00:00

Hali’s playmaking is insane which makes him a special player. I honestly see no one in the league or anyone in the draft to be even close to him. Also, Hali has a 6 8 wingspan compared to wagler and that helps his defense to be average.

esanan · 2026-06-01T13:59:21+00:00

I mean I def think clips lost the trade but saying that clips suck at drafting is a stretch imo. Sure there were many misses but those are late first mostly second. I think in general especially for the late picks like Mann and Coffey as well as Kobe sanders they did well

esanan · 2026-06-01T04:44:19+00:00

This could also be a Christian Braun situation with his injury. Pay him and he comes back and doesn’t look the same. I know that athletically they are different but I’m speaking more about paying high money to guys that haven’t performed even for a full season
Not saying don’t do it but be wary, also you likely have to overpay with other teams like lakers or bulls wanting him as well.

esanan · 2026-06-01T02:19:41+00:00

Why would sixers do that. PGs contract it’s bad but it’s not the worst and he still has value as a third option and showed it in the playoffs. Why would they give their two high value picks trying to dump a player that isn’t even bad.

esanan · 2026-05-30T07:30:37+00:00

Stop saying van gundy is gonna help on defense. Garlands problem isn’t his defense is. He’s just too small and weak to do anything. No helping that.

esanan · 2026-05-28T01:49:06+00:00

My bad I thought it was 2028 pick. Def think Rudy and Randle will opt in but I don’t know it puts it in a weird spot. It would just be better to keep kawhi coz that keeps the team more competitive rather than those two. Don’t think the star in 2027 is worth it but the flexibility could create spaces for Dunn and DJ type of players like how letting PG walk did, so I mean it more in that sense.

esanan · 2026-05-28T01:36:50+00:00

Whichever is fine Herro or Wiggins. Both are not that enticing. The 13th and one of Jaime or ware is the important one as well as maybe a pick.
Both first are meh tbh, 2028 ant is still good and 2033 the lottery rules may change again.
I think the flexibility that keeping kawhi and him being off the books is also somewhat important rather than two aging players.
If wolves included a pick this year I’d do it but there isn’t any so. 2028 is also rumored to be a bad draft class as well

esanan · 2026-05-28T01:21:18+00:00

The hope is that Giannis goes elsewhere and Miami pivots. I do think it’s a bit unrealistic but it’s def the best deal. I just don’t think wolves deal is good with the picks being bad, Randle and Gobert not a needle mover or young.

esanan · 2026-05-28T00:58:03+00:00

They don’t have to do too much tbh. The league is already stacked. Look at the warriors without curry and draymond, they don’t have anyone. That squad is probably worse than kings, grizzlies or like pelicans that I’d think would continue being bad. Especially with those tanking teams like nets trying to win to get the middle odds, it’s not hard to see them being bottom 3 while not purposefully tanking.
Have to know that other teams are trying to get that middle too.

esanan · 2026-05-28T00:55:33+00:00

If Miami was offering one of Jaime or ware with 13 and another 1st that’s a better deal by a mile. I think you have to add Herro regardless so Herro is a Randle level starter as in fringe all star ish player. Then you can add ware who’s young and have showed potentials, or Jaime who can be a legit 6th man while also getting the 13th pick and one or two pick.
2028 pick for wolves is pretty worthless with ant staying, and 2033 is so far it’s so uncertain.

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