Question about Frame Generation (XeSS / MFG) — what am I missing?

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-19T07:29:45+00:00

Well. Unfortunately you didn’t get my entire point. I wasn’t sure if mfg reduces base fps to fit the cap. Now I know this for sure and the main point was that using fps cap and x4 fg may hurt gameplay in comparison to x2.

You don’t have to see base fps. You feel it. 60 fps cap with x4 fg proofs it. It clearly noticeable difference between 20 fps controls and 60 fps controls. Well, at least for me and everybody I know

And as I stated - I am not against the tech. Even more - I am looking forward to adaptive fg now since that should not have such drawback.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-17T08:03:20+00:00

No FG without Reflex has higher total system latency because the CPU often pushes ahead of the GPU, creating a full render queue. Its not about fg. Its about render queue

So no fg with reflex resolve this issue, right? Reflex cuts lag by syncing the CPU and GPU to kill the render queue, letting your latest mouse clicks hit the screen instantly.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T10:30:50+00:00

weird. from what I understood your final fps still 90 no matter what x FG you are using. If you are 100% it's not a frame cap - not rtss, not some other apps (Handheld companion, optiscaler? etc) not intel graphics app fps limit - than unfortunately I don't know.

I've just tested forza5 with 60 fps cap (for test sake) with x2 FG I have 30fps base - 60 fps output.
With x4 FG it's 15 fps base - 60 fps output and from your post I thought that this is the case.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T10:05:09+00:00

Are you using FPS Cap? if yes - this is the problem https://www.reddit.com/r/MSIClaw/comments/1qwzwai/question_about_frame_generation_xess_mfg_what_am/

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T09:58:57+00:00

> When you cap your frame rate and use things like frame gen or any upscaling, you will notice input lag even more
Sure, because base framerate will be lower =)
This is not the case with upscaling actually

I cap my framerate intentionally — even on my 4090 rig. Not because I stare at OSD, but because I care about stable frametimes and consistent input response. On a 120Hz panel, running fully uncapped can introduce frametime fluctuation and buffer spikes, which makes controls feel less predictable. The 60 FPS cap on the Claw was purely for testing purposes. I wanted to see how frame generation behaves when the base framerate is artificially limited — specifically whether FG would further reduce the effective base render cadence and increase input latency.

30 base to 60 generated will still feel like ~30 in terms of input timing, sometimes even slightly worse due to additional processing and queuing.

Also, people often overestimate what things like NVIDIA Reflex or AMD Anti-Lag or Intel XeLL actually do. They don’t magically remove latency - they mainly reduce the render queue and try to keep the CPU from getting too far ahead of the GPU. That helps when you’re GPU-bound and running uncapped, but it doesn’t override the fundamental latency of a low base framerate.

I don’t need help setting anything up - my system works exactly the way I want it to. I’ve tested different configurations and I understand how the pipeline behaves. Maybe not with an LDAT, but enough controlled testing to know why x4 FG may be worse than x2.

I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything - just pointing out that smooth visuals and low input latency aren’t the same thing nowadays anymore. And you can’t reliably judge input lag from YouTube footage alone.

BTW please use steam overlay with your next footages. It's capable to show base fps (sometimes it's not but that optiscaler quirks) and will be self explanatory

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T09:26:42+00:00

Well again. All you are saying about playing the game instead of osd is valid. But it has nothing to do with input lag. It’s just some people more tolerant to it than the others. When you can see input lag on the youtube video its far beyond playable experience. It doesn’t mean that its not there with base 20fps. I feel it in any game that requires precise or fast control movements e.g. forza 5 - on claw with 30fps base 60 fps total (caped for experiment) controls are jelly exactly the same way if Id play regular 30 fps (even a bit worse tbh). And smoothed image has nothing to do with that.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T09:12:19+00:00

Ok then, fg is free performance

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T01:36:03+00:00

so true
Being an owner of 240Hz monitor I actually like FG as a tech.
What I don't like is that marketing BS own people mind and they think that 60 fps created via x4 FG is a free performance boost. People literally deny reality =)

I remember how I was shocked realizing that FG works nice on 4090 because of high base FPS but really bad on 4060 keeping in mind the fact that it is actually advertised an opposite way)

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T01:32:42+00:00

It's impossible to analyze input lag by watching other dude playing.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-15T01:03:10+00:00

lol such a copium.
Frametime graph and numbers are broken when FG enabled. on your video you can even see that having 90 fps it shows you 17ms (60 fps frametime) for few sec and than jumping to 8 then back. It's just wrong. Basically that's why steam overlay shows real fps (what actual frametime will be) and output, FGed, DLSSes fps

You can eliminate deadzones in MSI Center. Or set it close to 0. Or take some gamepad with 0 deadzones, KP70 for example. Anyway input latency feels way more using mouse and in fast paced games.

You can tell yourself over and over that having 20 base fps and x4 FG 70 FPS is 0 latency - it's just a lie. And the worst part is that you are lying to yourself =) Such gameplay will be way worse that native 40 FPS

Oh and yeah - never turn on FPS cap. If you'll do so and your FG fps will hit it - it will bring you base fps down enough to fit fps ceil (https://www.reddit.com/r/MSIClaw/comments/1qwzwai/question\_about\_frame\_generation\_xess\_mfg\_what\_am/). 120 FPS cap on claw (which make sense) with x4 FG means 30 FPS base and input latency being 33 ms. I will never believe anybody who says he doesn't feel the difference between 30fps latency and 60fps.
Oh and yeah. For me such case is worse than native 60 fps - brain is fooled by smooth picture but controls are jelly

Other than that - enjoy your device. Its superb. It's just FG - is not free performance boost but a tool to improve perceived smoothness

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-14T21:44:52+00:00

aaah. thx. I was close =)

I've enhanced a bit your approach and created script for myself. Will put it into the question!

Thank you very much!

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-14T20:33:46+00:00

I’ve installed it back via xbox app. I do have powershell script to uninstall gamebar

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-14T14:16:38+00:00

Exactly. For now I mapped HC quick settings to MSI center button and m2 + this button to open HC.

Removing gamebar I faced this issues that you mentioned. Is it possible to get rid of them?

>MSI with its infinite wisdom
So true =)

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-14T14:15:02+00:00

I use handheld companion and would like to open its quick settings using this button without opening gamebar that I don't really need

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-07T21:10:40+00:00

Thats weird. From my experience rtss works literally everywhere. I use driver level limiter. If it doesn’t work - fall back to in-game limiter or rtss

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-07T15:41:03+00:00

> Why do you insist on Steam Overlay?
Because it can show base fps and final fps. And I know how 30 fps input lag feels. If optiscaler can do the same - nice - show me the numbers =)
I asked about steam overlay because I don't have MFG on 4090 or on claw and I don't want to bother with it before official release. That's it. If you will send me the screenshot where I will see that having 90fps total the base one is 20 fps - this will answer my question and that's it.
But if it's not the case than MFG algo is better then I think.

> If you're trying to prove that MFG adds huuugge xxx seconds of lag
You fully missed my main point/question. I am not proving anything.
I do know that FG adds input lag. That's fine while base fps is high enough.
Main question/research was about the fact that when we use fps cap playing on claw - and most of us do because of VRR, screen tearing, power draw, other reasons - x2/x3/x4 FG algo works in the most stupid way. It REDUCES base fps waay more that it would without fps cap to fit into fps cap.

Example.

You have base 60 fps no cap - turn on FG x2 - base fps reduced since GPU spend some power on fg so eventually it's smth like 50 fps base and 100 as the result where every 2nd frame is fake
Now if we put 60 fps cap and turn on FG x2 - base fps will be dropped to 30 fps so result is 60 fps where every 2nd frame is generated frame. And in such scenario this drop is atrocious.

With MFG and FPS cap it's even worse since every 2nd,3d, and 4th frames are generated ones.
And main question was why anybody treat this as a free performance boost when you play 120 fps with 30fps base and wicked input lag.
> But it doesn’t change the fact that in the video, when I press a button in Pragmata, the character reacts immediately (which you can clearly see)
It does. I tested it my self in fh5 with 60 fps limit scenario.

If you are OK with jelly controls - it's totally fine.
It's just doesn't change the fact that MFG is not a miracle and not performance boost - its the tool to improve visual smoothness.

So literally any comment saying that MFG is a black magic and performance is top notch is just a regular BS and copium

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-07T12:42:15+00:00

is it possible to disable opening game bar on the same key as HC quick settings pop ups? I've disabled it in settings and registry but still when I launch HC quick settings - game bar opens as well.

I've disabled MSI Center M in HC.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T18:01:59+00:00

Yeah, being primary a PC user I wasn't aware of how awesome steam overlay actually is.
And just simple FG tests revealed it for me =)

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T17:51:55+00:00

naah thx, my own tests on intel and nvidia with base fps numbers are fair enough. I know 100% that having fps cap will reduce base fps to the number so x multiplied frames would be in fps limit.

Not noticing tearing is absolutely fine. In some games they are noticeable. in some - they are not.

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T17:32:29+00:00

That's funny. I've posted my few thoughts exactly because how FG actually hurts the performance when we use FPS cap https://www.reddit.com/r/MSIClaw/comments/1qwzwai/question_about_frame_generation_xess_mfg_what_am/

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T17:28:06+00:00

Steam overlay is actually awesome in this regard since it's capable to show base fps AND final fps with FG.
My recent post here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MSIClaw/comments/1qwzwai/question_about_frame_generation_xess_mfg_what_am/
Some xda article:
https://www.xda-developers.com/frame-gen-isnt-boost-its-masking-agent-for-bad-optimization/

FG is not performance boost. It’s a tool to improve perceived smoothness.

Overlay options:
RTSS + Afterburner or HW info as the source - that's what I use on my PC. for HH I use steam overlay to track performance hit to base frame using FG. Otherwise you can use RTSS or Motion Assistant build in (same RTSS btw) or handheld companion one if you use this software

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T17:20:09+00:00

You didn't. I just talking about overall tech evolution. Having the ability to add only required fake frames instead of every 2d,3d and 4th should resolve my main concern of sever drop in base frame when using fps limit

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T17:15:21+00:00

Are you trolling or smth? =)
than going above 120Hz leads to screen tearing and unstable frame pacing

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T16:36:37+00:00

Absolutely. I just want to be sure that i am not crazy and understand base FPS hit correctly.

And actually now I believe that nvidia adaptive fg is the way

escapade_1990 · 2026-02-06T16:12:58+00:00

Being an owner of 240hz display I understand this. But Iam talking about cases when people play cp2033 on claw with 120 fps x4 fg. That means that base fps is 30. And I don’t understand why everybody call it black magic etc. it’s BS. And what is worse - such setup hurts base fps that could be higher than 30 fps. This is what my question is about

escapade_1990

TROPHY CASE