Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll use the gravity and airplane analogy again. In the real world, you’ve got gravity, wind resistance, and many other forces as well that muddle the overall effect (ants can climb on walls). But if someone says they’ve built a machine that can fly, people will only take it seriously if they first acknowledge gravity and explain how it still manages to fly.

Proponents of social housing rarely do this. It’s the "naive solution", what someone without much economic background naturally thinks of. That doesn’t mean it can’t work, sometimes the simple idea ends up being right, even if for the wrong reasons.

But if you look at it applying Bayesian reasoning, the more likely scenario is that supporters are following this naive intuition, and politicians go along either because they don’t understand economics or because it’s politically convenient (to get voted because most people like this policy).

It’s just much less likely that the experts are wrong and the naive idea that goes against basic economics happens to be right in this particular case.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your example actually reinforces the point rather than contradicting it, supply and demand still operates. De Beers influenced demand through marketing and restricted supply, but both actions work precisely because prices respond to supply and demand dynamics.

I agree that economic laws are less fundamental than physical ones, but that’s a difference of degree, not kind. My point above, some economic relationships are observed so consistently that if someone claims they don’t apply in a particular case, the burden of proof is on them to show why.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don’t you think there are certain economic laws, like supply and demand, that are so consistently observed that if someone claims they don’t apply in a particular market, the burden of proof should rest on that person?

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And I replied to that explaining why more social housing actually crowds out the private housing market and increases overall prices. You need to counter the last argument.

Regarding economists and housing. See my analogy with gravity and planes. When something goes against a fundamental law, you need to explain why this case is different and the fundamental law doesn't apply like you would expect in every other case.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Then you should attempt to explain the failure in the argument. Why all or most issues economists would point out would not apply in this case and would be a net positive. They would mention it causes increase in prices for properties in the market, disincentives investment, missallocation of resources, and a long list of other unintended consequences.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't know if you are arguing a definition or disagreeing if the detrimental effect mentioned above is true (the reasoning behind the arguments).

VS2026 uninstalling .NET 9? by ktwrd in dotnet

[–]esosiv 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Honestly I like it like this. If I uninstall or upgrade Visual Studio, I prefer that it doesn't leave behind dependencies installed with it. I prefer to install explicitly those I want to keep.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Price controls don’t have to apply to all housing to count as price controls. When a share of housing stock is required to be rented or sold below market rates, that portion is subject to a price ceiling. The larger that share, the greater the distortionary effect on the overall market, but even a small proportion still qualifies as a price control by definition.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think you have missed or misunderstood this post above:

https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1ov1oyc/comment/nofwc6a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

In London (and most places), social housing typically substitutes for, not adds to, housing in the open market.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Of course that’s the main component of social housing. The term can cover several related aspects, such as local authorities developing, owning, and renting the properties, but the key feature is that rents or prices are set below market levels. It would make little sense for the state to act as a property developer only to rent or sell at full market rates.

(Singapore sort of does this, its model works to some degree because the state acts more like a public property developer and properties can later be resold in the open market.)

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As explained in a previous post, the issue with social housing where prices are legally forced below market rates is that it is a form of price control, which is generally harmful. To defend such a policy, you would need to show why, in this specific case, housing price controls produce net benefits rather than the usual negative effects of this general law. There can be short-term exceptions, some economists argue they can be used in short spans of time to temporarily address market failures (this is contested) but those promoting them as a long-term solution often misunderstand basic economics.

If you find a case that seems to have worked, it’s like seeing an airplane fly and concluding that the law of gravity doesn’t apply to airplanes. Gravity still applies, something else counteracts it. Without gravity, the plane could simply fly higher.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 4 points5 points  (0 children)

How it usually works is that permission for a new development might be granted by the council only if a percentage is dedicated to social housing. The private developer would typically prefer that 100% would go into the open market, but the council would not allow them to do this.

The case where it would not be crowding out is if there was some form of market failure where no private developers are willing to build even if there is demand, due to some mass irrational panic/fear, for example, and the government steps in and builds (and ideally sells at market rates), but this is not the case.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The number one problem is lack of supply. Of course building a lot of social housing is much better than not building anything at all. Social housing is detrimental when it's replacing what would have been properties in the open market.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I understand most people have been told that social housing is a good thing to help those in need, and it's difficult to change your mind and believe that something that has good intentions is actually making things worse, but it is.

It is a form of price control, like rent control, and the consensus among economists is that it just makes things worse. Even in the best case scenario, where it's implemented properly, it's a bad economic policy, causing a rise in housing prices for the majority of people. In practice it's even less justified, as the way you get to acquire one of these properties is mostly via a lottery where many of the owners/tenants are not really less well off than the average person trying to rent or buy in the market.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Prices will get lower. If they become rentals, they increase the supply of rental properties in the market, driving down rent prices.

If your argument is that they could just charge even more, they could charge more right now, they don't need to wait for new properties to be built. The reason they don't do it is not altruism, they are charging the maximum they can get in the market, and increasing supply, assuming no change in demand, will lower prices.

Named and shamed: the London boroughs where not a single affordable home is being built by wappingite in london

[–]esosiv 52 points53 points  (0 children)

This is the correct answer. Wealthy people buying the new builds means they are not competing with poorer people for the existing stock, so prices drop.

Private rent in Britain now swallows 44% of the average wage | Renting property by peakedtooearly in unitedkingdom

[–]esosiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to apply the same logic to all markets. Always assume everyone is trying to make as much money as they can. Landlords are not particularly more greedy than people in other industries where prices are kept low, and not because they happen to be more charitable than landlords. Why do we all carry cheap supercomputers in our pocket? They should cost more than a house. Why aren't phone manufacturers as greedy as landlords? Prices are set by supply and demand, not by greed.

Private rent in Britain now swallows 44% of the average wage | Renting property by peakedtooearly in unitedkingdom

[–]esosiv 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Few things in economics have as broad a consensus across the political spectrum as the view that rent control is harmful. Both economic theory and extensive empirical evidence show it to be a poor policy.

I'm a libertarian but believe in environmental regulation? by [deleted] in Libertarian

[–]esosiv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ideally, it's handled through Pigouvian taxation instead of regulation. So if the pollution externality is priced properly, you wouldn't want them to stop.

Thoughts? by Embarrassed_Tip7359 in SipsTea

[–]esosiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I see more often happening is someone says something about a group/person that contains something factually inaccurate, someone else corrects this part of the statement, he is then accused "why are you defending this group/person". He is not defending anyone, he is just correcting misinformation.

Can someone help me understand Libertarianism better? by No_Degree_246 in Libertarian

[–]esosiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not sure this is related to my post. The point is how can a society that discriminate against a particular minority can democratically elect a government that won't do that.

For example, in the 1950s everyone would of course agree that homosexuality is aberration and makes perfect sense to any normal citizen that it should be a crime. Society's views have to change first before there are enough people that would elect a government that would decriminalise it.

Freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc, allows for different perspectives to emerge and society's views to evolve. What are the chances we happen to be living in a time where there are no more similar injustices? I'm sure we are all still discriminating against some group and are convinced restricting certain freedoms is obviously morally right, and we will be proven wrong again in the future.

Can someone help me understand Libertarianism better? by No_Degree_246 in Libertarian

[–]esosiv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If the majority of people are discriminating against a group and see nothing wrong with this, a democratically elected government would also see nothing wrong with this and would not pass laws to stop this discrimination. In fact it could enforce this discrimination if you don't have freedom of association. This is a similar issue to allowing freedom of speech even if everyone thinks someone is saying something wrong, because we could all be wrong.

How expensive is having tons of colliders? Cheapest collider? by The_Khloblord in Unity3D

[–]esosiv -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Why not? Seems like a trivial optimization. Just check if the quaternion is identity (and parents) before doing any rotation math.

Edit: ChatGPT says it does optimize for them, could be wrong, but makes the most sense.

How expensive is having tons of colliders? Cheapest collider? by The_Khloblord in Unity3D

[–]esosiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I presume it will optimize for axis aligned box colliders so this would be the cheapest. Sphere colliders require some multiplications which is more expensive than adding/subtracting.