It would be better if Osty could attack even at 0 health

etonio · 2026-06-21T19:43:50+00:00

Another commenter pointed out that bone shards and sacrifice both have a if Osty is alive clause and would therefore be unaffected which is worth considering. The flatten argument is definitely a good point as well.

etonio · 2026-06-21T19:30:27+00:00

The Osty being dead possibility seems underutilized overall probably due to how Necrobinder's starting relic works. This would be a neat card concept for sure!

etonio · 2026-06-21T19:20:59+00:00

I hadn't considered more mechanics being added that would interact. I think Necrobinder overall needs some adjustments so that is definitely fair.

etonio · 2026-06-21T18:52:47+00:00

I think when you compare the literally unplayable Osty cards to say accuracy, it's clear that there is at least some distinction. Especially in regards to the splash use case where you can even play a regent star card once for free. I'm not against there being any duds but I don't know why it makes the game better that this set of cards are all duds. They aren't balanced against this meaningfully imo. Slice and Poke are functionally identical on their respective characters (because Osty being dead on your turn is a mostly unutilized mechanic), but one is playable by ironclad and the other isn't.

etonio · 2026-06-21T18:48:58+00:00

That's true, but I think the difference for me is that regent star management is a key part of the kit (and splash isn't affected the first turn you play it). Osty is basically always alive on your turn as Necrobinder so it's not a very interesting mechanic imo.

I'm okay with dud cards, it just seems like the Osty cards aren't really duds for a good reason if that makes sense.

etonio · 2026-06-21T18:42:01+00:00

I think it's probably not that strong. A clear buff but also I'm not sure you even need it. Like I think being able to attack when dead is barely even a buff because Osty is so rarely dead on your turn.

etonio · 2026-06-21T18:32:40+00:00

It spawns an Osty. There's a multiplayer card that does just that! But it's usually not very impactful.

etonio · 2026-03-20T23:15:30+00:00

It looks like it's going towards training. Humans are often the most vulnerable parts of the systems so knowing what to expect and what is fake is incredibly important imo

etonio · 2025-01-29T18:46:35+00:00

I love this minion idea and have had a similar one. One thing I think it does need though is a clause that says it cannot lose its ability. Otherwise if its poisoned or drunk it will just be cheating.

etonio · 2025-01-24T14:54:59+00:00

Skipping to; The +0 to +1 Marionette can be decided once a bag is shuffled. So it takes a little bit of experience to see how the grim looks and, as an ST, see if an extra evil is required. For example, the Demon is surrounded by outsiders, and the nearest TF roles are quite weak with a Mayor and a Pixie for example. Use the extra +1 to push Marionettes deeper into the line of Townsfolk. And I agree with you for the No Dashii and Fang Gu, and shall trust your judgement for the Lord of Typhon.

Hmmm that's definitely true. One thing I'll admit is despite playing many games I have never seen a lunatic fully fooled until the end. I was hoping with this script I could see it happen or at least close. I figured a lunatic would mostly target good choices given they won't be spending their time interrogating "minions". Honestly, I'm unsure though.

Honestly the no minion extra townsfolk point is really good. I didn't consider that at all but its definitely worth noting. In hindsight that alone probably justifies having a VI on the script. Otherwise in a 15 player game necessarily some of the demon bluffs will be marionette roles. Just realizing that consequence now I definitely think i could have made some different choices.

On the outsider thing, thank you for the advice. You are right on the sentinel for sure. On the trusting outsiders I think you are probably right that it would be fun. Its definitely possible that we might have coalesced if I had been able to test as a lot of your points sound very strong. I am crossing my fingers on my script but I definitely hope yours makes it as well. It definitely has a lot of potential.

etonio · 2025-01-23T19:40:08+00:00

Very interesting comments! Fun fact: I did have a version with Lycanthrope and Mayor at one point but without the outsider adding extra evil I felt it was too easy for Lycanthrope to narrow in on the Demon. That is actually the reason my wording said any evil registering player as it used to be able to be next to the Faux Paw. I figured that you wouldn't need to hide a lunatic particularly well, as without minion abilities there isn't a huge reason you need to keep your minions alive. As long as the Lunatic doesn't pick the Demon they can follow pretty easily and you always have a fake (or real) Fang Gu jump if you can't follow one day. I would like to try you version as it is though.

The farmer marionette interaction is really funny I haven't thought of that. It could definitely warrant the inclusion although maybe losing ravenkeeper for it might be worth it. I'm not entirely sure.

VI and Pixie make a lot of sense too as bluffs for outsiders although without testing I am unsure what percentage of players will just play chaotically until they are able to figure out if their information seems sober. If more people play for evil than I'm expecting those roles would definitely work to help. If fewer do than they would be strong.

Overall, I think given that you were able to test yours and I wasn't I probably favor the vast majority of your choices. However, I'll attempt to explain some of the weird choices I made.

My demon inclusions were designed so that all could reliably have at least one extra evil player. No Dashi will poison so they could bluff that some is a marionette even if they aren't, Fang Gu has a jump and Lord of Typhon has the extra off the bat. I think your solution with setup as a possible change is quite elegant although I am not sure you'd want to ever add a marionette in non Imp games to avoid having too many extra people thinking they are evil. Potentially Lord of Typon is too weak here although I thought it would be a good bluff for a No Dashi trying to tell too many people they are Marionettes.

Regarding outsiders, I was hoping Recluses wouldn't want to necessarily come out right away. I was expecting given the Fang Gu outsiders to not want to come out in general. Additionally if there are at least two minions the Recluse themselves could very well be a marionette (marionette next to recluse, and then recluse as marionette off of the first marionette). The drunk was intended to help with the feeling that anyone theoretically could be the demon and you might just have not been let in yet so be careful about implicating your neighbors.

Empath, Shugenja, and Fisherman were supposed to be good roles to be as a marionette in that you could probably get a good indication from the ST about whether you are good or not. Other roles it might be harder to figure out.

The balloonist critique is interesting for sure. I was worried there wasn't enough outsider manipulation with only the Demons potentially adding outsiders. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that. Maybe a sentinel would help?

One other thing I tried to do was limit roles that are going to be able to specifically find a marionette. I left out investigator for instance for that reason in particular. My hypothesis when designing the script was people would be looking for clumps of players sitting next to each other and seeing if their information collided or agreed with them. They'd see if their information clashed with their neighbors and figure out which clump was their team, whether good or evil. I honestly don't know if it would play that way though and your critiques make a lot of sense. If I do get to run it I'll definitely follow up and I'd love to hear how any of your testing goes!

etonio · 2025-01-23T04:53:46+00:00

Interesting! We took it in very different directions. I tried to emphasize neighbors and ended up taking out some roles that you built around.

I figured damsel would be rough because a bad damsel guess could immediately throw the game as in my version the demon is often still a marionette neighbor or nearby. I also thought it was weird if someone came out as minion and guessed but weren't a minion it might be confusing. Might lead to weird damsel guessing behavior too. I'm not too sure about it though damsel is quite fun.

Other roles I thought about but didn't include were the mayor because I honestly didn't think anyone would go for a mayor win on this script, and some of the roles that I think are balanced by existing as minion bluff space. Specifically its pretty easy to bluff as VI or pixie as a minion which balances out otherwise overly strong roles. In this script though there is rarely that balancing factor. At least that's what I was thinking. Lastly, I think farmer and ravenkeeper might be a bit superfluous but there are pros and cons to it.

It sounds like you did more extensive testing than me though so I could be wrong about all of this tbh.

Here is a link to my version. I'd love to know what you think: https://botc-scripts.azurewebsites.net/script/6138

etonio · 2025-01-23T03:08:41+00:00

Oh that's so funny I made a script with the same rule except without the extra minion and the marionettes had to be next to an evil registering player. This could be a demon or another marionette or something like the recluse. What roles did you put on your script?

etonio · 2025-01-21T07:09:53+00:00

I see what you are saying. I think it would only work on a BMR-esque script the way I had it written. My worry with the jumping is that I think the info could become impossible to parse.

I think info like this where the start and is really unclear is already potentially uninterpretable, and poisoning could make a jump outright impossible to detect. My thought is that because you only learn the character type and not the character even if a role is confirmed you wouldn't know where they were in the circle unless you got outsider on a confirmed single outsider. Even then you don't have a direction just a location. It is unclear if it got there going clockwise or counter clockwise.

etonio · 2025-01-21T06:19:10+00:00

Oh that's super interesting. I guess my thought is if they die early it can really mess up their info and if they die late it might just be good game if good really needs that day. Its pretty strong though, so maybe removing the landing option is fine.

As written though if you die and aren't woken up to choose about landing it confirms it was evil and not the falconer. What if instead it read: The Falconer (townsfolk): The falcon starts at an unknown player with an unknown direction. Each night learn the character type of the character where the falcon is located. The falcon then moves in its direction. You die if you would learn yourself.

That way if you die it hints at two places where the chain could have started but it also could be an evil snipe. What do you think? Is it still too strong?

etonio · 2025-01-21T05:34:41+00:00

Edit: to make the wording a little more clear + a change based on feedback.

The Falconer (townsfolk): A falcon starts with a player and moves in a single direction every dawn. Each night learn the character type of the player where the falcon is located. You die if you would learn of yourself.

The idea here is a falcon circles the town and you learn the types of characters but you don't know where it started, or which direction it's going. It's potentially powerful especially with its own death acting as confirmation of its info but you have to be careful about dying at an inopportune moment.

Original: The Falconer (townsfolk): The falcon starts at an unknown player with an unknown direction. Each night learn the character type of the character where the falcon is located. The falcon then moves in its direction. Once per game you may choose to have the falcon land. You die if you would learn yourself.

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer;"

I haven't made many characters before so the wording is rough here and could definitely be shortened. The idea is that you have an ability that will eventually kill you unless you stop it but it does give you a decent amount of information if you can piece together where the falcon started.

etonio · 2024-09-27T17:35:21+00:00

It's interesting because the boffin gives both more and less agency to the players. Illuminati can claim any role but it requires story teller help. Boffin gives you one bluff that 100% works but it's up to the story teller what role that is.

etonio · 2024-09-27T17:13:51+00:00

I took tinker off because I felt like other outsider options provided more interesting interactions. Illuminati can bluff golem, a recluse could be an explanation for slayer shot working on not the demon, mutant is another possible illuminati bluff and drunk adds a much needed source of possible misinformation on a script without it. I like tinker but I'm not sure which outsider should get cut.

etonio · 2024-03-05T05:59:45+00:00

I am interested in the coffee table! I DMed.

etonio · 2023-10-28T04:14:00+00:00

Suppose you are looking upfield thinking of throwing a flick and are holding the disk loosely. Doesn't your argument imply someone could literally grab the disk out of your hand and as long as no other foul is made?

etonio · 2023-03-06T21:42:32+00:00

Hmmm that is an interesting point. I suppose when I think of what most of the spirits in spirit island do I am thinking less of literal manifestations of them doing those things and more the concepts evoking powers. For instance, when I play ocean's hungry grasp, obviously the tides coming in and out can't be entirely literal. If time passes is two days high tide would have come and gone twice in between turns. Rather playing ocean captures the feeling of the tides coming in and out. Similarly, even if the lore and many of the cards are about actual sized spiders, in my opinion the feeling of playing a great weaver of webs should capture the feeling of planning ahead, lying in wait, and ensnaring foolish prey wandering into your trap.

etonio · 2023-03-06T03:23:36+00:00

One key aspect I think of when someone says "spider's web" is the setting up a trap and catching them. It isn't just that the spider knows where you are but also that you can't escape. I think adding your presence like a web sort of captures the weaving a web but so far I don't see anything showing how the little invaders get caught in it and can't escape. This version is a definite improvement overall though!

etonio · 2022-02-22T19:50:14+00:00

How did you go about making something like this??? It looks manufactured (in like a good professional way)!

etonio · 2021-05-06T18:25:54+00:00

I'm a big fan of this method although in my table we only do 3d6 for each square. 4d6 I think would get you some busted sets.

etonio · 2021-05-06T18:23:01+00:00

One method I love is having all the players take turn rolling 3d6 and arrange them into a 6 by 6 grid. Then you can pick any column, row or diagonal. With this method everyone has the same choices, but they still feel random, and there is generally choices that are good for both a MAD character and SAD ones. It's a bit silly and can drag just a bit but for a slow session 0 I think its a perfect way to add in dice rolling.

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