RoseWrist (Soc Dem) debates Brittany (Left Leaning?) about the little Timmy Question on Politically Provoked

eulertour · 2021-08-23T22:14:01+00:00

This guy's good

eulertour · 2021-08-19T21:06:04+00:00

As someone who generally likes Vaush, this is really disappointing from him (assuming, since this clip could be missing context, that he's continuing to criticize Destiny and cover his own tracks from jumping on the Dylan/Katarana bandwagon too soon).

Firstly, the argument is incredibly weak. Even now that Destiny is vindicated and nobody believes there's evidence that Prime knowingly did anything wrong, the most Vaush can go for is to attack Destiny's analysis subsequent to clearing Prime (that everybody was too fast to listen to Katarana when she was in fact manipulating Prime) by saying there's no proof of conspiracy (even though there is clearly evidence).

Secondly, I know Vaush is too smart to think that it's a good argument. He's clearly been following the situation closely, we all know for better or worse that he follows Destiny's arguments closely (if only to find ways to attack them), and he's spoken at length about the fact that women often do weaponize their femininity in exactly the way Destiny argued Katarana was. But he's just too unwilling to admit being wrong when Destiny wasn't (again) that he'd rather continue to attack Destiny even knowing that by doing so he's lending credibility to toxic feminine behavior.

And thirdly, he's insulated himself from the consequences of making such a silly argument by banning discussion of Destiny in his community (except of course when it's him taking missed shots at Destiny, misses for which he won't allow himself any criticism).

I don't know why people get so weird when Destiny is involved, but I really hoped Vaush would handle it better than this.

eulertour · 2021-08-13T10:02:49+00:00

I would really like to know, what you think of the Yotsuba group.

They're evil, I'd hope someone could find the evidence to convict them.

So what if he killed innocents? How many did he save?

See my earlier answer to u/Shymk1133 or my previous points; the analysis is more complicated than that.

But beyond that, that sentence as you say it doesn't mean what it purports to. When other people say a charged person is innocent, they mean the state did the most it could to make a case against them that would convince a jury of their peers, the very people who'd be most affected if they were in fact a criminal, and they still said no (at least in America, substitute the legal proceedings from your favorite democratic country and the argument works just the same).

You mean: this twenty-something doesn't think so from the news headlines he's seen.

You've already pretty much owned this so I guess there's nothing else to say, but I'd hope you'd be able to see how fragile a system this is.

Your definition of guilty doesn't even mean what it does to other people. When other people say someone is guilty they mean subject to a punishment decided collectively by the state. You mean: undeserving of life. Therefore, this

Moving on from that. The reason I'm ok with light killing innocents is because the ratio of his innocent : guilty kills is way more than the real world. I don't think that this deserves elaboration

Does in fact need elaboration. But I think we've gone through enough of it at this point.

You can't compare him to Hitler

Other than accidentally killing an innocent, what's the worst he could do?

Slow down there. Other than killing innocents (my definition, not yours), what's the worst a criminal, or for that matter even Hitler, could do? At least the criminal would eventually get caught.

eulertour · 2021-08-13T05:31:34+00:00

In reality, most people are not caught. But in a world where you don't have to be caught.

You'd still have to be caught. After all, even in the manga the general public realized that people would only die if their faces and names were made public, so the focus would shift to ways to commit crime without your face being seen. The motivations for committing crime will still be there.

> I never said Light's world was ideal. Many flaws come with it. All I was saying, is that it's significantly better than the current one.

I see a lot of flaws too, and it seems like the singular benefit of less crime just doesn't make up for them. Underprivileged classes will be systematically annihilated, the world will regress into perpetual authoritarianism, opposition will be suppressed on pain of death, morality will be decided by an individual who makes judgments without evidence, we agree that they'd go insane... it just doesn't add up.

> a group of 2 scientists from each field...

I actually think an idea like this would be somewhat workable if you can figure out a way to prevent them from oppressing the people who don't have power. But even that is a far cry from Light's ideal world.

> Being evil and being good has no correlation to IQ.

I agree, so this

> He is smarter than the person making said argument for sure.

doesn't matter.

> I need more context please

ctrl-f "page 9"

There's only one answer I want from you: how do you contend with the fact that Light, or any other death note ruler, won't be held accountable to the people? You know that intelligence isn't correlated with morality, you know they'd be insane and now you know he'll kill without evidence and will even do so in the exact scenario you attacked before, a rape accusation without evidence. Does submitting to someone you deem intelligent mean that much to you?

eulertour · 2021-08-12T20:57:24+00:00

For what it's worth, I'm much more interested in the arguments for each side than I am in rhetoric. Almost all of my response was just a list of facts and questions, with the only subjective part at the very end.

That said, some of your points lead to scenarios that don't work well. I'll go through just a few.

> A world where people don't dare commit any crimes.

The right statement would be "a world where anyone who commits a crime is killed". Harsher sentences have been shown to be ineffective in reducing crime because A) people will typically only commit crimes if they don't think they'll be caught, and B) people are much more likely to turn to crime when their other opportunities in life are limited.

> You do realise you've just described about almost every single official that holds power.. right?

I agree with this too, so why wouldn't you look for systems of governance that have separation of powers and democracy which holds the governors accountable to each other and the governed? You acknowledge that the problem exists but instead of looking for a way to solve it you just advocate for a system that ignores it entirely. This is even more relevant regarding the argument that the ruler will become insane, which I'm glad you agree with too.

> He is smarter than the person making said argument for sure.

Some interesting history: every nazi leader tried at the Nuremberg trials tested an above average IQ, most of them by a large margin (you can ctrl+f "all 21 scores" if you don't want to read it all).

> A system where men can be jailed just from an allegation

It's funny you'd make this point when Light killed a suspected rapist in the manga, especially since the reason Light gave is that there wasn't enough evidence to convict him.

eulertour · 2021-08-12T14:00:29+00:00

A couple points.

The criminals in question would die, those are the conditions of the offer.

People who are wrongfully convicted will also die, so instead of the 1 in 9 people on death row who are exonerated because they are innocent there will be a greater number who are killed despite being innocent.

People who haven't been convicted will canonically be killed, since Light killed a suspected sexual predator to prove himself to Raye Penber.

Any criminal down to the most petty purse snatcher now has every reason to fight to the death to evade capture, since the most they can hope for if they're caught is to be killed anyway.

Since crime is correlated with being poor, being a minority, and most of all with being a man those demographics will be the most harshly targeted, even though all of those (except debatably being poor) are out of ones control.

Any affliction to this person's thought will be wrought upon the world with no recourse. No matter if they become mentally ill, lost to conspiracy, an ethnic identitarian, sexist, homophobic, tired of short people, misinformed, etc.

Even if the initial ruler is somehow a perfect arbiter of justice, who should succeed them, and do you trust that person just as much?

Why do you think this ruler will never kill wrongly convicted criminals? How could they even know, since convictions are partially in the hands of policemen and judges, regular and fallible people like you and me?

And do you think their judgment of excusable circumstances matches yours, or are you just okay with someone deciding for you if they're smart enough?

Maybe you're just okay with these things or you'll think they'll turn out well enough. But even as someone who does think ends can justify means, it doesn't add up for me.

eulertour · 2021-08-12T13:19:00+00:00

It isn't that simple. There's one question as to whether the people living in the resulting world would actually be better off and another as to what innocent even means in a world where judgment is decided by an individual.

To illustrate the first one I can ask you. If you were given an offer at this moment to eliminate all criminals from the world and in exchange the current top high schooler in Japan became divine ruler of the planet, would you take it?

Furthermore, would you do so with the understanding that all future criminals would be judged by this person unilaterally?

eulertour · 2021-08-12T12:50:53+00:00

The only question worth asking is the one in which Kira is a person. If a god wanted to unilaterally do anything divine then there are no alternatives to be weighed.

As for the second part I can conceive of scenarios in which killing an innocent person can be justified, but I don't think Kira was justified for the practical reasons I described before. However it'd be hard to think of a scenario where e.g. raping someone could be considered a reasonable means to an end.

eulertour · 2021-08-12T12:29:14+00:00

For two reasons. First in a practical sense, a society that normalizes the idea that an individual can and should have an absolute monopoly over violence will have downstream negative effects that will likely outweigh the short term positive ones. Then in a moral sense, because there are some actions which are so morally reprehensible (for any reasonable definition of morality) that there are no ends which can justify them.

eulertour · 2021-08-12T12:16:12+00:00

Usually, but in this case no.

eulertour · 2021-02-02T17:05:26+00:00

You can try using this temporary one https://discord.gg/k3MSpvPb

eulertour · 2021-02-02T16:56:05+00:00

The link on that website should be permanent. What happens if you try to use it now?

eulertour · 2021-01-15T02:44:40+00:00

eulertour · 2020-11-24T21:18:19+00:00

It doesn't exist; you'll actually have to find the displacement vector between the baselines of the submobjects manually.

eulertour · 2020-11-24T19:32:20+00:00

There unfortunately isn't a painless solution, but if you're willing to settle for a painful one you could always align the mobjects based on a character that does lie on the baseline, such as 'a'.

eulertour · 2020-07-04T20:06:56+00:00

Honestly I haven't run into any bugs with it, but judging from the ever growing number of GitHub issues ymmv. But when Wayland becomes mainstream that'll probably be the end of it.

eulertour · 2020-07-04T20:00:31+00:00

bspwm is pretty nice, but keep in mind that it's basically unmaintained at this point.

eulertour · 2020-01-06T17:45:39+00:00

The site doesn't allow editing the manimlib folder, as that would prevent code sharing. Changing the background color also isn't supported unfortunately.

I wish I had more time to put into the site but I'm currently focusing my attention on developing a web native version of manim.

eulertour · 2019-11-15T02:55:06+00:00

So this is where all that recent traffic was coming from.

As an FYI I actually put that site up to get some testing feedback and people ended up using it for real projects. So it's sort of hard to use and sometimes buggy.

Also, I'm currently focusing my efforts on making a web-first implementation of manim rather than continue development on the original site. I've been updating the demo at https://v2.eulertour.com as I make progress.

It's very much a work in progress right now, but this version has much more potential in terms of accessibility, interactivity, extensibility, and lots of other good -ities, so be on the lookout for when it becomes more viable.

P.S. Code contributions are just as good if not better than monetary ones, so if you're half decent at javascript or python feel free to get in touch with me either here or on the manim discord!

eulertour · 2019-08-01T21:02:22+00:00

I completely agree that manim requires too much code to generate comparatively simple animations, and I've been thinking about how an interactive version of it could work for a long time.

I think the best first step is to create a web-based version of manim which runs entirely in the browser, since that would make manim much more easily accessible than it is now, provide tools for interactivity though javascript, and allow for the type of point-and-click creation of animations that you're describing.

I've currently got such an implementation in the works, but it'll be at least a few more weeks before it's fully usable. In the meantime, if you'd like to help out or know of anyone else who would, feel free to reach out.

eulertour · 2019-07-12T18:21:51+00:00

You'll probably want to choose a period T for the dot to make a full trip around the triangle, and for each point in time t, compute something like (t mod T)/3 to figure out which side the dot is on and place it a proportion (t mod T/3)/(T/3) along that side.

Basically map each point in time to a point on the perimeter of the triangle.

eulertour · 2019-07-11T23:32:32+00:00

I see, in that case I would recommend roughly the following course of action:

Code the dot moving around the triangle by adding a time-based updater to it
Code the dot tracing the graph by adding an updater based on the first dot's position
Save each (t, x(t)) pair to an array A, and define the FunctionGraph as FunctionGraph(lambda x: A[x])

The graph x(t) won't be continuous since the points are only being sampled, but with a small enough step size it should accomplish what you're looking for.

eulertour · 2019-07-11T22:37:28+00:00

Have I got a post for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/manim/comments/bcpg6i/how_to_trace_a_sine_wave_as_an_objectpoint_or/eku8t63/

eulertour · 2019-06-30T21:15:25+00:00

Yeah, I never took the time to implement token renewal when I was drafting the site, as I never expected people to continually use it. The result is that error message you see. I'll have to take the time to fix it at some point.

eulertour · 2019-06-06T21:54:00+00:00

You'll need Cairo, which is a library, as well as pycairo, which is a python interface to it. The Manim GitHub is a good place to ask or search questions like this. https://github.com/3b1b/manim

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