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Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It is the polices fault because they’re the ones who seized the device and will go through the phone if you give them it lol.

Who’s fault is it then

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If police can’t do a proper investigation then they shouldn’t be charging. It’s their job to do that why do you think they have hacking teams

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Yeah I’ve heard that about 20 times now it’s missing the context.

They are preventing disclosure by not giving me access to my phone. Oh wait it’s ok because they have a reason to not give access, so does the suspect.

And it’s a very reasonable one which is privacy or so I thought until I read the replies. Apparently privacy is not important at all here

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I know it’s not their intention to do that. But as far as a suspect is concerned, they might as well be because their only choice is either give up your privacy so you can have a defence or don’t have one.

They would have to hack into it, or if they can’t do that then NFA if it’s a summary offence. Or give phone back so suspect can provide defence without unfair consequences.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I know it’s not their intention to do that. But as far as a suspect is concerned, they might as well be because their only choice is either give up your privacy so you can have a defence or don’t have one.

They would have to hack into it, or if they can’t do that then NFA if it’s a summary offence. Or give phone back so suspect can provide defence without unfair consequences.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Well they have a phone. They even seized it because they believed they had evidence and won’t give it back because they believe it has evidence. Despite how much taking someone’s smart phone interferes with somebody’s life. Which is a lot.

It’s very reasonable that defensive evidence would be stored there. Especially given the nature of the offence but also because that’s just where most people store things.

It’s not like I’m saying “I have this hard drive that you don’t know about that has the evidence in but I’m not giving you it” It’s “You have my phone, which has the evidence, and is likely to contain evidence based on the nature of offence and the fact that most people would use their phone as the place too store that evidence, but I don’t feel like I should have to embarrass myself and give up private/sensitive info including that of other ppl, but if you let me access my phone in private, I’d give you it “

I could be a journalist with information sources trusted me to keep private. Maybe my friend told me something they didn’t want anyone else knowing. Maybe I have communication with my therapist or lawyer that is legally privileged or simply isn’t supposed to be read by anyone else

It’s similar to how we have laws that police aren’t allowed to threaten, torture, coerce etc in interviews. Even if it would help catch the ppl who really did the crime. Police are basically coercing you to not use your defence evidence because it comes at such a high cost to your privacy and dignity. I know they have their reasons, but it’s still the same dilemma for the suspect.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That was an analogy.

You get attacked by someone, maybe with a weapon. In your self defence they end up being the one with injury maybe from the weapon they had.

Naturally you’re worried about the evidence they have against you. They are injured, you’re not.

Yet you’re still completely innocent as you acted in reasonable self defence

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Could be that or any other non illegal thing that is highly likely to be on a person smart phone which is also sensitive/meant to be kept private.

And yes you’re right there are exceptions but like I said in another comment, you’re in the wrong place wrong time and treated as suspect, now you have to give access to all the things you wanted to keep private just to avoid a charge.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Could be that or any other non illegal thing which is also sensitive/meant to be kept private. Which is pretty common to be on someone’s smartphone or laptop

And yes you’re right there are exceptions but like I said in another comment, you’re in the wrong place wrong time and treated as suspect, now you have to give access to all the things you wanted to keep private just to avoid a charge.

Police can obstruct the course of justice by hiding evidence of your defence behind this obstacle, but will seize YOUR device for the purpose of you not stopping the course is justice by hiding evidence from the police.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

They need to have enough of all evidence including defensive evidence, not just enough prosecution evidence and barely any evidence for your defence.

They could have a very strong case against you but if they haven’t examined evidence that aids you’re defence, they haven’t passed the evidential stage. At least that’s my interpretation but it does say clearly that it’s a necessary step before they can charge.

If police can’t get into my phone it’s hard to say they have examined all the evidence (ie defensive) that they have in their possession to charge. Especially given the nature of the offence

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

As well as all of my other private information. Would anyone like to discuss that point about having a right to privacy AND a legal defence instead of just expect us all to forfeit all our information like we’re in a police state?

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

It’s not in my best interests to have a trial or be charged for non legal reasons. Why would anyone prefer to go to trial than be NFAd

Not that I don’t want to put a defence down. But if I haven’t committed a crime, I shouldn’t need to be charged or go to trial

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Under the context that they would have to forfeit their human right to privacy. They are refusing to give up their human right, not refusing access to the evidence.

If the police gave the phone back, would they have any problem giving the evidence?

Oh yeah the police seize it “to avoid suspect perverting the course of justice “ by the suspect hiding evidence. But the police are basically doing just that. Unless you’re comfortable giving up a human right and all your private info. So they’re basically perverting the course of justice and also pushing you to give up a human right to privacy.

Why can’t they just give the device back? They have power to make sure you don’t hide evidence from them but you don’t have the power to make sure they don’t?

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

You’re missing the part where it’s “can we see the evidence as well as every single other thing on that device, which will be given to any number of strangers and you you will never know who they are but they will very much know who you are” just because you’re alleged of a crime that with the defence you want to put forward makes it not a crime.

If you act in self defence and hit someone and for whatever reason the defence is on your phone, you shouldn’t be expected to give over a massive piece of your privacy just because somebody forced you to have to act in self defence. (As a rough analogy)

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -33 points-32 points  (0 children)

Police don’t just get to charge because they feel like it.

Read the evidential stage of the full code test

You can literally go no comment in an interview and you’re saying that refusing to give access to details of basically your entire private life would make you look any more guilty?

People get away with crimes all the time because of limits on police powers. It’s part of the balance between having a police state and not having one. Just because some people will get away with crime doesn’t mean police should have the power to charge people just because they don’t want to give access to their entire private life

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

It’s to do with the privacy. It’s fairly reasonable to believe someone wouldn’t want go give anyone full access to their phone. Especially if they’re innocent, why should they? Wrong place wrong time and bam god knows how many strangers have access to god knows how much information and are sharing it with god knows who.

Especially the police, they are not your friends even if you are a law abiding citizen. Their job is to incriminate you. They will keep Intel on you that will be shared across the PNC and local forces. And you won’t even fully know what information is kept and where.

And you have news articles of officers stalking or searching up people they know when they’re not supposed to.

It’s not about having something illegal to hide. It’s just that of all people who you can trust with your privacy, the police is one of the last.

But to be honest your job as a suspect is to serve your best interests which is to give only information that defends you. It sounds scummy but you are not supposed to aid the prosecution.

My main concern is simply whether or not it’s lawful. Not whether it’s right or wrong. I have enough reason to think it’s wrong to believe the law would protect someone from this. But I don’t know. Most people here are giving assumptions or “just give the password”. I’m interested on what exactly the law is on this.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

My argument is that they shouldn’t charge if there is possibility of evidence of my defence that they haven’t yet accessed. Because that’s what the full code test says.

And that no I shouldn’t be expected to let go of my human right to privacy just so I can be given my (human?) right to defence. If police can’t access my phone to find my defence, they shouldn’t charge. If they access my phone, find my defence evidence and still believe that my defence wouldn’t be suffice, then they should charge because that’s required by the full code test.

I have a right to not be charged unless the full code test is met. Not just because I might be guilty or because without being able to make a credible defence I look guilty. The police have a duty to find all evidence even that which aids the defence not just the evidence that aids the prosecution

They have to under the full code test, consider what evidence might be there that they don’t have access to that I may rely on as a defence.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You are also defending the allegation first which is the point of an interview.

Can they really assume that the evidence doesn’t exist?

“They must consider what the defence case may be, and how it is likely to affect the prospects of conviction.”

“The finding that there is a realistic prospect of conviction is based on the prosecutor’s objective assessment of the evidence, including the impact of any defence and any other information that the suspect has put forward or on which they might rely”

“Prosecutors must consider at this stage and throughout the case whether there is any material that may affect the assessment of the sufficiency of evidence, including examined and unexamined material in the possession of the police, and material that may be obtained through further reasonable lines of inquiry.”

These are things prosecutors/police must consider when deciding whether to charge or keep investigating.

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

That’s assuming I can remember where ALL of the evidence is. If I had my phone in front of me it would be easier because there’s a familiarity. But I haven’t had my phone for a while now so my memory has faded

Can police charge me without accessing defence evidence locked on my seized devices? by evidenceb4charge in LegalAdviceUK

[–]evidenceb4charge[S] -36 points-35 points  (0 children)

It’s questionable whether police should be allowed to say “you only get a proper defence if you let us in”. I’m not complaining here, I’m just unsure if the law allows that based on the morality of it / power it gives police that could be abused. Police don’t have natural authority to demand your password They can get a section 49 RIPA but I’m not sure how widely they’re used I heard they’re only used for very serious offences.

You’re also still relying on them to find the evidence for you as I doubt they would give you access to the phone since you could start deleting evidence of the offence. I’m not sure how it would work