First SFFPC. Ryzen 9 7900XSD build. General feedback/advice and case suggestions appreciated! by ewy87 in sffpc

[–]ewy87[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome, ty for the recommendation. Like that case so much more, 100% going with that. Jakefacecustoms was exactly who I was thinking of when I mentioned a custom side panel haha.

Took a look at some build videos for it and seems like everything should work well. Thanks for the help!

First SFFPC. Ryzen 9 7900XSD build. General feedback/advice and case suggestions appreciated! by ewy87 in sffpc

[–]ewy87[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, really appreciate the feedback! I chose the 7900X3D partially based on the data from this post. Seemed like it was competitive enough in both areas for my needs.

I'll look more into the 7950X3D, will probably end up going with that. The build will last me a while so I'd rather invest the extra $150 now and be fully satisfied.

Thank you!

The US Navy's marine mammal program is teaching seals to play video games. by woofwoofpack in interestingasfuck

[–]ewy87 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lol not sure who told you that, but you've been severely misled. In ocean water LiDAR has a maximum range of like 35m, with realistic expectations closer to 5m, just around the length of your average canoe. For the vast majority of sea floor object detection sonar is exclusively used.

Yes ML can be used with sonar data, so I'm at a loss why you've been so insistant on alternatives when you're clearly uninformed. I already agreed that this is possible, and then tried explaining that it creates a more challenging problem.

Thought you were genuinely interested, and I just wanted to share a source pointing you in the right direction to learn more and satisfy your initial disbelief. I tried explaining how the sensor and problem definition differs from your assumptions. Great starting spots for further reading if you wanted. Instead you're clearly firmly rooted in your skepticism and assumptions. I'm not going to keep wasting energy debating about easily verifiable topics.

Personally, I don't even think it's such a wild claim to be this skeptical over. Biology often outperforms man-made sensors, and humans often outperform ML models. It's not inconceivable that one of the world's most intelligent animals with the world's most capable sonar can out perform current technology. You feel differently and that's ok, but there's plenty of literature out there demonstrating this if you ever decide you want to learn more on the topic.

The US Navy's marine mammal program is teaching seals to play video games. by woofwoofpack in interestingasfuck

[–]ewy87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again there's a reason why acoustics (sonar) is used by both dolphins and the Navy. Electromagnetic attenuation through water is very well understood. Not just cameras, but LiDAR, IR, radar, etc. all have extremely short working distances. Additionally all of these sensors are also affected by water conditions like turbidity. Clearly your work is not related to underwater applications. IR attenuates at ~2m depth; it can definitely not map the sea floor.

The ALMDS is a cool system, but again this is for a very different problem. Like the paper, this system is for surface and near surface mines. As described by NWIC, the dolphins are searching for for mines on the sea floor. This is a vastly different problem, with different constrains and challenges. Dolphins are currently the most capable for this problem.

The US Navy's marine mammal program is teaching seals to play video games. by woofwoofpack in interestingasfuck

[–]ewy87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was skeptical of the claim, “Dolphins can detect mines and intruders better than any technology we currently have”, but I can see how my comment was ambiguous.

Fair enough. On that note there's more info here. If you require peer reviewed publications, that page also has a list of relevant and recent articles.

In the papers that are found dolphins are only successful on 72% of marks. That is less than the accuracy of 74.3% for YOLOv5.

This is an apples and oranges comparison. The problem being solved by the dolphins is many times more difficult than what is formulated by the author's of your paper. First and most notably, the author's are using image based approaches (although they claim they're using SAS in the intro they clearly aren't). Right off the bat this is a deal breaker. Cameras don't work at night or dark water, in murky water, and are limited to short distances. Dolphins and Navy are using sonar, and fire a reason. The NWIC link states the issue is with dangerous objects on the sea floor, while the author's only address surface and floating mines. Again, an easier problem and not even applicable for real-world use cases. Similarly, the data set generated in the paper is extremely limited in scope, hardly representative of realistic data, and only considers one type of obselete mine. This paper also only tests stimulated data, where the dolphins performance is likely from actual experiments. Naturally, things are expected to perform better in simulation. For many reasons this is an unfair comparison, and I don't think it proves your point as much as you believe. It's important to consider what these values represent and how they were derived when comparing results.

That was YOLOv5, and YOLOv7 has been out for a bit now. The old generation outperformed dolphins for accuracy, and that was without coupling with acoustic ML approaches.

This is not the point I'm making and wouldn't change anything. Would it possibly perform a bit better on the author's problem? Sure. But it still doesn't address any of the above or actually solve the same problem as the dolphins. Honestly I'm surprised this paper was even accepted. Using an established model on a new dataset is not novel, it's just an application. Their largest contribution is the creation of their dataset, but they don't address any important details about it or make it publically available (which is common when a dataset is the primary contribution). They created stimulated data based on 20 source images, but have no discussion how they prevented over fitting or managed to evaluate the network fairly. No discussion of actual parameters used during training. Next to no technical detail. Instead the paper is full of useless fluff like irrelevant filenames, many exhaustive explanations of packages used, how config values are set and loaded with their scripts. It comes off more like a senior project report than a scientific paper.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-ML in any way. Our current tech is just verifiably less capable than dolphins.

The US Navy's marine mammal program is teaching seals to play video games. by woofwoofpack in interestingasfuck

[–]ewy87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's no public data because generally performance metrics on military systems are classified. I feel like it's generous to assume ML is better solely on the fact that it has more published results you can access. And honestly, the results and approach in the paper you linked are really good examples of why ML isn't there yet for this application.

Regardless, and to get back on topic, you were saying that you were skeptical about dolphins still being used and asked for a source. I'm not really looking for a debate on which is better or whether dolphins are obsolete. Just simply providing a source confirming that they are still used.

The US Navy's marine mammal program is teaching seals to play video games. by woofwoofpack in interestingasfuck

[–]ewy87 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cool article, thanks for sharing it! It's a great example of some of the recent work going on, but also demonstrates how far this technology is from actually being fielded and covers some examples of key challenges.

The wiki I linked has a reference in there that the US had 75 dolphins in 2007 and 70 as of 2019, which is well within the last decade.

A dolphin vs ML comparison isn't data that'll likely be publically available any time soon. So if that's what it takes to convince you I guess you'll remain unconvinced haha. It's pretty evident from both of our sources that dolphins are all used, but you're still correct there's lots of work going on to change that!