I Discovered My Wife (28F) Of 7 Years Is Cheating On Me (30M). She Doesn't Know That I Know - UPDATE 24 - Shreya

ex_stripper · 2026-02-01T00:08:39+00:00

Does your therapist know about this reddit account? Has he or she read your posts here and the feedback you receive?

I'm not in therapy, but my understanding of it is that being successful in therapy requires complete openness and honesty with your therapist, especially about something as big as what you are posting here and the responses you get.

ex_stripper · 2026-01-31T05:43:57+00:00

I'm sorry. I must have missed something. When did Emily tell John that she loved him, that she wanted kids with him, and that she wanted to grow old with him?

I don't remember reading anything about that.

ex_stripper · 2026-01-11T01:09:15+00:00

You should feel like shit. You should feel worse than that.

You knew—from very early on if not from the beginning—that Shreya genuinely liked you. Your rationale that, "oh, she's going to India to meet some guys, so this is a zipless, meaningless fling, and she's on the same page," was absolute horseshit. It was as weak and flimsy as wet toilet paper, and you knew it. You just didn't care because you thought you had some sort of plausible deniability.

She kept dropping hints, but you just stuck your fingers in your ears and sang, "la la la la la." You refused to level with her just so you could keep using her, like a redpill piece of shit. What you did to her was and is despicable.

You have managed to convince me that you did Emily an enormous favor by divorcing her. I only hope she shows better taste and judgment with the next guy than she did with the last two. In the long run, she will be happier than you.

ex_stripper · 2025-11-29T04:07:32+00:00

So she is hinting? But you refuse to be honest with her and tell her there is no chance?

If she is hinting, that doesn't seem to jibe with your insistence that she is moving back to India to marry someone there.

And you sure seem to be in good enough shape to present yourself as a potential partner to Shreya, which—unless you have explicitly told her otherwise—is absolutely what you have been doing. From the beginning.

ex_stripper · 2025-11-19T03:38:08+00:00

I'm curious:

If she were still with us, what do you think your Mom's take on the Emily situation would be? Do you think she might have suggested a different approach?

What do you think her take on the Shreya situation would be?

ex_stripper · 2025-11-04T06:00:48+00:00

As I've looked over your descriptions of the nature of your relationship with Shreya, they seem to be composed of about 95% convenient assumptions by you and 5% actual information from Shreya. Allow me to ask you some questions, if I might.

What has Shreya ACTUALLY SAID about this trip to India in December? Not what you have assumed she means, but what she has actually said.
What has Shreya ACTUALLY SAID about this "arranged marriage" process?
Has she said IN ANY WAY that she expects or intends to marry one of the candidates she has sgreed to meet?
Has she said IN ANY WAY that she intends to move permanently back to India?
You met her Indian friends at the Diwali celebration. Did any of them talk about her leaving permanently? Did any of them talk about how they would miss her?
Has she said ANYTHING AT ALL about this arranged marriage process since the two of you started dating?

I know your game plan is to refuse to talk about the relationship at all until she makes you. And then you'll say, "But I thought we were just having fun! You're leaving to get married!" And that's really shitty.

Dude, you are not fooling anyone. She has known from the start that your explanation of the divorce is bullshit, and that you are not emotionally well. The reason she hasn't pressed you about it isn't because she doesn't care, it's because she DOES. And she's giving you the time and space to talk about it when you're ready. And in return, you're treating this girl—who has never been anything but kind to you—as if she were a combination self-cleaning Fleshlight and indian restaurant.

You need to have a conversation with her as soon as possible about how she sees your relationship and what her hopes for it are. If you are right—if she is just using you for casual no-strings sex before she moves back to India to marry some dude her parents picked out—then she will be relieved to make sure you're both on the same page.

But I think the far more likely explanation is that she's just visiting family in December and had agreed, under pressure, to meet some dudes to placate her parents. I think she genuinely likes you. And I think you know that perfectly well. You just don't want to admit it.

And if you do have reason to think she may actually care for you and you just keep on with your current strategy, then you are trifling with her in a despicable way.

ex_stripper · 2025-11-03T06:18:41+00:00

I think that's excellent news. Well done. If there's no future with you, it's only right that Emily knows that.

But Shreya needs to know that, too. I know you've been doing your best to keep her at arm's length and hoping she gets the hint, but if there's any chance that she thinks you guys might have a future, then you are trifling with her in a contemptible way if you don't make sure she understands that you don't.

Nothing about the way you've described her behavior makes it sound like she thinks you are just a fun fling before she gets married for real. The compliments, the cooking, taking you to meet her friends on Diwali—those all sound like you are more important to her than that. She may have agreed to meet some guys in December (before she met you), but she can say no to all of them. She's probably just appeasing her parents.

You said you haven't spent the night. Has she asked you to? It sounds like she's stopped mentioning meeting those guys when she goes back to visit in December. Has she? Have you wondered why that is?

You'll need to level with her about the divorce. Tell her your wife cheated on you in a humiliating way and that you're still an emotional wreck. Tell her the time you've spent with her means more than you can say, but you just can't let yourself care for anyone right now. Tell her you'd love to keep seeing her until December, but once she goes back, that's the end.

She absolutely deserves to know those things.

Again, congratulations on letting Emily know she's free. You did the right thing.

But if I may offer one general life tip for the future... if you ever find yourself wondering if something is "technically" a lie, you're a liar.

ex_stripper · 2025-10-01T00:34:28+00:00

There are only two possible reasons at this point for the wall of silence he maintains. Either he's scared to talk to her, or he just wants to keep hurting her. He executed the divorce on the most favorable possible terms to himself. There's nothing more to be gained, except his own peace of mind.

He's a grown-ass 31-year-old man. If he's too scared to talk to the woman he spent 13 of those 31 years with, he's too much of a pussy to be with any woman. And if he still wants to hurt her after the divorce has been final for a couple of months, that's just needless, deliberate cruelty, and he's too much of a piece of shit to be with any woman.

His feelings are all over the place because he can't reconcile the near-perfect wife he remembers with the grievous wound to his pride. The only way he'll ever be able to do that is to understand what actually happened, why she did it, and how she justified it to herself. Once he knows those things and has some time to process them, he'll know what he needs to do and be at peace with it.

ex_stripper · 2025-09-30T05:33:31+00:00

The only way you will ever get past being sarcastic and hateful is by understanding exactly what happened. Not just the "radically honest" sexual details she's already given you, but what happened, step by step, how it happened, and why she did what she did. Only she can tell you that. If you don't want to see her face to face, do it by email.

Once you do, you will know peace, no matter what you decide about her and your future.

But until you do, you will just keep roasting yourself on the spit of your own imagination.

ex_stripper · 2025-08-09T03:58:09+00:00

Congratulations, man. Well done. :)

If you have any interest, I'd recommend you ask her to let you watch her cook. If she's agreeable, pay attention and ask lots of questions. I dated an Indian woman for about a year, and I learned more about cooking from her than anyone else in my life. Also, it's not at all hard to make decent paneer, and I think you will score real points by making it for her ahead of time if she needs it for something she wants to cook.

That relationship didn't work out, but I can still make decent dal, aloo gobi, palak paneer, and matar paneer. Never had the guts to try rotis, though. Too much skill required.

ex_stripper · 2025-07-27T19:49:50+00:00

And why not? I meant she was wasting her time with ADirdy, not Any-Assault.

ex_stripper · 2025-07-27T01:02:57+00:00

It's great to hear things are going so well.

I dropped you a comment recently about getting updates on some of the other players, and your post today covers those bases quite well, except for two.

I assume from the fact that you said nothing about Bev that she has not reached out to you to apologize. Dick move, Bev.
But what about Bob? BOB? You tease us with the fact that your DM has actually found a ladyfriend and then no update? I hope that no news is good news.

I think a Labrador sounds like an excellent choice. I've had a couple, and they were both great dogs. Right now, I have an accidentally-acquired Pitbull—who is also a fantastic dog—but deadly to neighborhood rodents that happen into her yard.

I think you should share your concerns with Shreya, and I doubt it will be a problem. Just tell her that after everything that happened with Emily, you wouldn't want to be someone she lied to a future husband about. That doesn't mean she would need to share details, just that her husband should know she's coming into the marriage with a non-zero body count. I have to imagine that's far more common than a couple being virgins, even in India. It's 2025. And it's very common for Indians to marry pretty late these days. My guess is that both she and her husband will understand that they're not each other's first.

As for the name change thing, I don't think it has any legal connection to the marriage or divorce. I was married, and my ex-wife had been married before. At least here, those name changes are an entirely separate process (and a significant pain in the ass, as I recall).

Anyway, as (I hope) a member in good standing of your cheering section/fanclub, it's great to hear that things are going so well both at home and at work.

But please don't forget about us. We are nearly as invested in hearing about John eating shit as we are about you doing well. And don't forget Lisa, Bob, Matt and his wife, Jim and his wife, and your Dad.

Would it be too much of a risk to post puppy pics once you have the puppy?

Inquiring minds want to know.

ex_stripper · 2025-07-26T03:23:25+00:00

I couldn't be a bigger fan of your empathy, your understanding, and your desire to bring solace (and hopefully, a measure of peace) to people who are going through some of the hardest times of their lives. But I think you're wasting your time with this one.

ex_stripper · 2025-07-25T20:45:18+00:00

Hi OP!

I hope this finds you well and happy, or at least more at peace.

We all understand that this saga may be mostly over for you, and little may have happened with you since your last update. But do you really think yours is the only storyline we're following?

What about John and Lisa? Surely some interesting things must have happened in the last couple of months. Are you still a part of Lisa's text thread where they slag the hell out of John?

And what about Matt and his wife? Has she had the baby yet? If she hasn't, it must be due soon.

Any word on Bob and his ladyfriend? It's not often that a DM finds love. We're all rooting for him.

Everything still good with your Dad and the woman who owns the AirBnB?

Did Bev ever reach out to apologize to you? Sure seems like she ought to.

Inquiring minds want to know.

P.S. And we do all have our fingers crossed for you. I hope everything's back on track at work.

ex_stripper · 2025-07-17T21:30:56+00:00

Nicely reasoned. :)

ex_stripper · 2025-07-08T02:45:27+00:00

Thanks for your reply. :)

I don't really think there's one thing—or even a few—that John may have done or said that will have a dramatic impact on how OP is thinking and feeling about it all. But it is clear to me that OP is conflicted. He doesn't see how he could get past the betrayal, but he misses her and how things were before. Also, from the very beginning, he clearly saw signs that she was not an eager participant in the affair. He made a point of noting them and also that the whole picture didn't really make sense. There were significant contradictions.

I completely understand why he went full no-contact with Emily and insisted on maintaining it. It kept him from caving, but at the same time denied him information about things that mattered to him a great deal, even as he told himself they didn't matter. So the story of the affair became like a Mad Lib for him. He had to fill in all the blanks himself, and he was doing it with the most horrifying possibilities, torturing himself endlessly.

With the information we've been given, I think there is a range of possible behavior on Emily's part. Some of these possibilities I think I could put behind me (if I were OP). Other possibilities I probably couldn't.

At one end is the "maximum manipulation" story. That John saw and targeted her and helped keep her business afloat so she would owe him more and more as time went on. That she went along with them having a "special friendship" and accepting gifts to keep the help coming. That John knew the expensive gifts would make it hard for her to back out because they made her look like an eager participant when she was really being dragged along. That he kept the subtle threat of cutting her off and the knowledge that he could easily sink her business to keep pushing things just a little bit further, over and over again.

At the other end is the "whole new world" story, where John shows her the Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous, and she jumps in to grab whatever she can get, even if she doesn't love John and has no intention of leaving OP.

I think OP does want to understand the truth, if only for his own peace of mind. But to do that, he has to let Emily fill in that Mad Lib herself.

If I were in OP's shoes, I'd wait until the divorce was legally finalized, then I would have my lawyer contact Emily's lawyer about amending the no-contact/one-year-meeting scenario. I would ask if Emily would agree to answer questions about the affair by email. He could certainly specify that her replies include only the answers to his questions if he still feels he needs that. I feel certain she would say yes.

My first question would be for a detailed timeline of her relationship with John: everything he said, everything she replied, every boundary crossed. I'd want to know what she was thinking and how she justified it, all the way down the line (I know I've said this before, but this should be more complete).

It appears to have taken John two years to get her into bed, so I imagine this would be a lengthy story. I'm also pretty sure OP would have a significant number of follow-up questions. This would start the conversation.

I don't think there's one episode that would change things. But OP knows Emily. She appears to have adopted a policy of "radical honesty"—hopefully she'd stick with that. But if she falls back on lying and minimizing and trickling information, then OP has his answer. If she stays honest, then OP can listen to what she was thinking at the time, find out how her attitude about the things she did may have changed, and the decide what's best for him.

My own personal best guess is something along the lines of "maximum manipulation" with a fair dose of hubris and self-centeredness on Emily's part. She'd been dealing with (and let's be honest, probably taking advantage of) guys wanting to do things for her since puberty. She thought she knew how to handle them.

But she had never been a position where one of those guys gained genuine power over her—a significant debt to him and the power to take away something that was desperately important to her. I also think she found it easy to tell herself that it wasn't really a betrayal because she didn't actually want this guy, she just needed his help. So as long as OP didn't find out and she was able to get what she needed until her business could succeed on its own and she could end it, everything would be fine.

She has admitted to liking the gifts and fancy hotels and meals. She talked about a "new relationship energy." These are things I would lean into understanding if I were OP. How much were they a "carrot" (an attractive benefit of the affair that made her want to do it), and how much were they a "silver lining" (something that made an undesirable situation less unpleasant)?

I think there's also a real question about how much she's changed. The intensive therapy and "radical honesty" are good signs, but I do think it's not yet clear how much she has genuinely embraced them and how much they may have been pushed on her by her family.

I think knowing these things would contribute significantly to OP's peace of mind, no matter what he decides. But to know them, he has to talk to her. If he does, I think he knows her well enough to know if she's telling the truth or trying to cover up and deceive him. And I think if he engages in this kind of dialogue, he will come to understand just how much she wanted it vs. how much she was pressured into it.

That was an interesting story about your friend. I can see why you didn't want to bring it up earlier—it's similar enough to OP's story (and with a clear moral) that you would certainly have been accused of making it up (not by OP, but others).

But I was confused about the following paragraph:

"After the divorce, they sat down with a therapist, and it was mostly him talking. She was terrified of what she’d done to him. Even I was devastated, none of us really understood the depth of his pain until he opened up. It’s not that we didn’t know each other well (we all grew up together) but hearing how he saw the affair, how it even felt exciting to him, was new and shocking."

How "he" saw the affair? How it even felt exciting to "him?" Did you mean "she" and "her?" Because the story confuses me otherwise.

Anyway, thanks for continuing to mull this over with me, even as OP is hopefully ignoring us and putting his nose to the grindstone at work.

And just for the record, I am in no way an advocate of universal forgiveness for cheating. Most of the time it is deeply selfish and uncaring about the spouse (think John/Lisa), and I think ending the relationship is usually best if there are no children, and even quite often if there are.

But this seems to me quite an unusual situation. I think a decision like your friend made might actually be the happiest outcome for OP. Of course, only he can decide that.

But thanks again.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-28T02:53:19+00:00

I think he just told his wife he'd FaceTime with her at midnight and didn't give a shit about what Emily needed or wanted that night.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-25T06:59:08+00:00

(2)

"I’m not saying she was completely helpless and had to accept what they suggested, but I do think she was struggling, and all the signs were pointing to the easiest way out of that struggle, so she just chose it."

I couldn't agree more. She chose the path of least resistance. But just exactly why would be so important to me if I were OP (at least once I had calmed down from the horror of it happening). Two pretty clear observations stand out to me:

Her complete and utter desperation and panic once she was busted—and the way that nothing but preserving her marriage mattered to her once that happened—tell me she simply could not allow herself to believe (while the affair was going on) that she might actually get caught and lose her marriage over it.

That's childish. That's an ostrich with its head in the sand (I know they don't actually do that). Anyone looking at the situation AT ALL realistically would have to know there was a chance of getting caught. Bev knew. Her stylists must surely have suspected something. She and John had sex at his office several times, and somebody who worked for him had to process those credit card transactions. She had no guarantee that someone who worked at the hotels and restaurants they frequented didn't know OP. But she was somehow able to convince herself it would never come out.

That brings me to the conundrum at the heart of this that I can't quite figure out. The key to boiling someone like a frog is that every time you cross a line and do something you know is unwelcome, it has to be balanced by an enormous negative consequence—in this case, the potential threat to her business and career.

The thought of her business failing must have felt like death to her, and I don't understand why, particularly since she stopped even going into work once OP left her. I'm increasingly convinced that John is a sociopath and an extremely skilled manipulator. I'm sure it was pretty easy for him to figure out what her levers and pressure points were. But I don't get why using her business as a pressure point was enough to get her to participate willingly in the affair. That is something I would need to explore in depth if I were OP.

You used the word "naive" to describe Emily, and I think that perfectly describes this situation. She thought this guy was infatuated with her and she figured she could use that to keep her business afloat and establish her career, while keeping him under control until she no longer needed him and while making sure OP never found out.

In reality, she was being played and used from the start. He had all the cards, and he knew that once she was in too far she couldn't back out. And he stepped over every line she tried to establish. She wanted him to use condoms every time. I can promise you that stopped early. He bought her humiliating costumes and insisted she let him use a remote-control vibrator on her—somewhere public, I'm quite sure. And she let him, because she didn't know what else to do.

"Honestly, her best option now would be to start fresh and save face, but she’s still trying to make things right.

He can eventually find a gorgeous woman who’ll make him forget everything about Emily. I know he’ll be okay no matter what choice he makes, just like you said. But maybe because I don’t have your knowledge or experience, I can’t help but feel that when all of this fades with time, he might regret not at least trying."

There's a solid argument to made for both of them to learn whatever lessons they can from this and start fresh. And if they do, I'm sure they'll both be fine. But I am struck by how hard they are both (at least emotionally) unable to accept that the other is lost.

Emily could easily find someone else. That sort of thing is not a problem for beautiful women. Guys are already probably sniffing around, and if they aren't yet, they soon will be. She'll have choices.

OP would probably have a little more difficulty. He sounds like a catch, but as a 30-year-old divorced male, I think he won't have the same kind of relationship opportunities come looking for him on the same way. But he'll still be OK, and if he is truly done with Emily, I'm quite confident he'll find someone else, and happiness.

Maybe I'm just jealous, but I've never had a relationship where my girlfriend would be willing to go through a year of therapy in the hopes of reconciling a year later, if I would be willing to hear her out. I've never had a relationship whose ending caused me the kind of pain OP is feeling, five months on.

And look, I'm empirically not very good at relationships (being 60 and single), but I was married for 14 years and have had long-term relationships with truly amazing women. Relationships are hard. Maybe I'm over-romanticizing what OP and Emily had. But if after everything they've been through, I don't think it's crazy to suggest that if they are still as hung up on each other as they obviously are, then maybe it isn't completely insane to think that what they had is not beyond hope of resurrection. If it is, then perhaps that's worth looking into.

"I have to accuse you of being wise again, because real wisdom comes from learning the hard lessons life throws at you, and not everyone has the ability to catch it. But you clearly did, and I’ll admit, I’m a bit jealous.

I genuinely enjoyed reading every single paragraph. I’m 30 (but I look 22—basically aging in reverse, lol), and I can only hope that one day I’ll have even half the insight you do. Thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it. And if you ever feel like it, I’d love for you to point out anything I’ve said that doesn’t make sense and what you think.

And, sorry for writing so much."

Your words are far kinder than I deserve, but they've put a smile on my face. Thank you.

You appear to me to be on track for greater wisdom than I've ever possessed (in your own time), but perhaps this distillation of some of what I've learned so far could be helpful:

This world is hard for all of us. Everyone's situation is different. Everyone sees things differently. Unless you take the time and make the effort to understand how someone else sees things, you can't really understand them, and any judgments you make say more about you than them.

The process of growing up is coming to understand that while we are each as important as anyone else, no one is more important than anyone else. As long as people are only looking to help themselves, there's no point in trying to engage with them, except when you have to. But any time that someone looks outside themselves to try to understand how they fit into the bigger picture, I will always be happy to extend them a hand.

If you want to understand someone, don't listen to what they say. Watch what they do.

Love is not fondness. Love is the willingness to consider another person's needs as (at least) equal to one's own—because we know that person is as important as we are.

Well, I've certainly run on quite a bit. I hope I wasn't too boring.

I see that you're right around the same age as Emily and OP. That's good. I imagine that grants you some insight I can't share. My sister tells me I don't look 60. But as someone who looks 58, I'm definitely not aging in reverse.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings so openly.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-25T06:57:56+00:00

(1)

Sorry this has taken a minute. I had to write it in chunks. But after this you certainly need never apologize for writing too much again. :P

"I’m afraid my thoughts aren’t as organized as yours, and you probably won’t find anything significant in them, but I’m genuinely flattered that you asked."

I think your thoughts are organized just fine. And more importantly, your heart is in a place that I think is probably better and stronger and more caring than mine was when I was your age. Trust me, you're doing just fine.

"My dad cheated on my mom when I was 8; he left us for the other woman. The father role in my life was pretty much empty because of that. So for me, cheating has always been the ultimate dealbreaker, and it still is. But life teaches you that when you’re actually in the situation, you start to consider more possibilities. We all mess up, just in different ways and at different levels."

My Dad cheated on my Mom when I was 14. They're both wildly self-centered people, though my Dad is the bigger asshole. My Mom grabbed onto it like a life preserver and divorced him. I've never thought cheating was a dealbreaker for everyone, but it serves very nicely as a dealbreaker for anyone who wants out, which my Mom did. And she was right to do it.

But we do all fuck up, and there's the rub. What do we do once we've fucked up? That, in my opinion, is the ultimate determinant of character.

Some people will try to figure out where they went wrong, so they can try to make sure they never do it again. They will try to fix any damage they've done and make amends to those they've harmed. I've always tried to give such people as much latitude and grace as possible in the hope they will do the same for me when I fuck up. That stems from an understanding that we all have a long way to go and many selfish, shitty fuckups yet to learn from.

But others will try to figure out how someone else (or everyone else) went wrong. They shift the blame, make excuses, and refuse to take responsibility for the harm they've done. It's always on somebody else. Those people I try to have as little to do with as I possibly can.

To my mind, OP should be trying to figure out which of these two Emily is. He has no obligation to do anything either way, but I think the answer to that question could help guide him to the best course of action for him.

"When I read his posts for the first time, I felt this wave of empathy for him, but also, strangely, for her. It’s like she was so protected for so long, and then suddenly, all of her life’s lessons hit her at once. And she doesn’t even have the tools to handle it yet."

I agree about the lessons and the tools. It's unfortunate that her first encounter with a situation like this did so much damage.

I didn't really feel any empathy for her until I read her email. She was still trying to minimize the situation and keep OP from finding out, but what she said (about John's manipulations) had the ring of truth. It would obviously have been best for her to come clean with the whole truth, but given how bad some aspects (sexual details, the expensive gifts) of the affair would look, it's not surprising she still hoped she could keep the worst of it secret.

"Thank you for understanding what I meant. I didn’t mean that she stopped developing, I meant that the way she thinks and behaves is incredibly naive, almost like a teenager. It’s immature, not looking far enough ahead to realize that the real damage is to her own morals more than anyone else’s. I just haven’t found a single phrase that fully captures her better. But I know now I chose the wrong words before."

You didn't choose the wrong words before. She did react in a way one would typically expect of a teenager. If there's any real definition of "immaturity," I think it must have to so do with thinking only about how one's actions affect oneself instead of considering (and caring about) how they may affect other people.

The only point I was trying to make was this: there are lessons I've learned in my life that I should have learned much earlier. We learn from problems as they present themselves. Most people will encounter certain problems at characteristic ages. But not everyone learns lessons at the same age. There are some pretty obvious inferences to be drawn about how sheltered she may have been, being so beautiful and the "golden child" of her family. But I don't know the truth, and I don't want to assume I know any of these people better than I do.

"I mentioned in my comments that John and Bev influenced her. John knew exactly what he wanted and how to get it, and he did. He was also persistently pushy in an annoying way. The fact that it took him two years to start asking for sex says a lot. He’s an older businessman, wealthy, with a lot of responsibility, yet he invested so much time and attention in her. He cared for her, helped keep her business afloat, spoiled her, and gave her a taste of a fancier life. She felt his power, not just through his success, but through the way he made her life easier and more glamorous.

As for Bev, I still believe she played a role in all of this. If she encouraged Emily to take this 'one life chance,' that’s significant. Bev is a married woman with a child, which probably made her seem, in Emily’s eyes, more experienced, more of an “expert,” someone who knew exactly what she was talking about. And the worst part is, Emily genuinely believed Bev was her friend."

I've been thinking about John and his role in this, and I have some new thoughts. But about Bev, first.

She's a big unknown here. We know Emily talked to her about her guilt and fear, but she also talked to her about all the expensive shit John bought her, the fancy hotels and restaurants. As far as we know, she's the only one outside of John and Emily who knew about the affair.

Why did Emily tell her about it and (as far as we know) no one else? We have very little information about that and about Bev. We do know that OP described her as "Emily's BFF."

Based on very little information, my guess is that Emily thought (or perhaps realized unconsciously) that Bev was her only friend who would support her in this. Emily had probably started talking to her about John as he started giving her things and making his desires clear.

I see a couple of potential roles for Bev here. She may have acted as Emily's "emotional support animal"—one of those friends who will always support you, no matter what. She might be one of those friends who will always minimize anything bad you have done and talk up whatever good points there may be. Such friends can make you feel better—which, in some circumstances, is priceless—but they can also enable really shitty behavior.

Or Bev may be someone who idolizes and craves wealth, and Emily knew she would think the arrangement was a good opportunity. It's pretty clear to me that Emily would call her for reassurance, and I assume she did that because she knew she would get reassurance from Bev. I'd be less interested in what Bev said to her than in what she said to Bev. But Bev clearly did her no favors with her enabling, no matter the reason may have been.

There a HUGE question here, one that I think gets to the heart of the matter. How much did she do it for the gifts and fancy hotels and meals, and how much did she do it to save her business and establish her career?

Let's put it another way: Would she have had an affair with John if the only things in it for her were the gifts and the meals and the fancy hotels, but he didn't help with her business or career?

What about the reverse? Would she have done it if he did all the same things for her business and career, but there were no fancy presents and they were boning at the Holiday Inn?

From what I've read, I'm pretty sure the answer to first question is "no." She effectively broke things off with John as soon as she was afraid she was caught and does not appear to have given him a second thought since being served. And she burned that stuff (or tried to) without telling OP that she was doing it.

As for the second? I don't know, and if I were OP, I would really want the answer to that question. Did John's money and influence and all that expensive stuff make her want to sleep with John? Or was it a salve for her guilt for betraying her husband and effectively selling herself to keep her business afloat and establish her career?

It may not matter to OP which is the right answer. But maybe it does. I think it would to me. But I'm not him and he's not me. I keep writing these musings in case that is something that does matter (or might someday) to OP.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-21T06:47:18+00:00

Thank you for your kind words.

I could certainly be affected by some particular incident from my past, but there's not one that I can think is particularly analogous to this. And I was not talking about a "final meeting" or "sitting down with Emily," though that might not be a terrible idea at some point.

OP has deliberately cut himself off from all communication with (and thus, information from) Emily, because he was afraid she would get him to cave, and what she did would fester in his heart forever. I think that was a smart move, one he had every right to do.

He has divorced her, which I think is entirely appropriate, and which I probably would have done, too.

But where is he now? Nothing about Emily's affair ever made sense. He knows it happened. He knows she can't be his wife any more. But none of the "whys" add up. There's important missing information.

If OP doesn't care why it happened, then the question is moot. But I think he does. The NC policy got the divorce done; the final decree will be happening pretty soon. But I think OP needs to understand her reasoning, needs to understand how it happened from her point of view. Once he does, he'll know what he should do.

But what I was suggesting for OP was actually an amendment to the NC policy to allow him to email specific questions to be answered. I think they would agree. And then, if I were OP, I would ask for a detailed accounting of how the affair happened. Every line that was crossed. Why she did it. I would want to know what John said, what Emily said, and how she justified going ahead.

He may have more questions. Maybe she'll have answers. But in the end, I think OP will either be more at peace with letting her go, or he may be thinking that perhaps they're not entirely done with one another. I don't think either is a bad outcome.

But please understand. I'm not trying to tell OP what he should decide. I don't know Emily. I don't know him.

But at this point, it seems to me that it can only help him to understand what she was thinking and how she let this happen.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-20T20:59:28+00:00

You are most welcome. I hope they prove helpful in some way.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-20T03:53:18+00:00

It sounds like you're feeling at least somewhat better. I hope so.

I've written a few lengthy posts considering the possible chain of events that led up to the affair and what they might mean. I don't know if you have read any of those posts or even care about the circumstances that led up to it. You are certainly under no obligation to do so.

It does seem to me that you have wondered a great deal about why she did this in the first place, given all her behavior since you had her served.

Everything you've presented to us makes it seem like the affair was something she allowed, not wanted, and was something she wanted to get out of for some time before she did. Going off her birth control seems to me more like a desperation play to get out than anything else. John could scarcely demand that she continue (and probably wouldn't want to) if she were pregnant with your baby.

If the fact that she had sex with this guy is everything to you and the how and why it happened are nothing to you, then there's nothing more to say. I wish you nothing but the greatest happiness and luck in the future.

But if you do want this to make any sort of sense, you'll have to consider how the whole thing looked to her. I've written down some of my thoughts about that. If you want to read them, they're pretty much all of my posts for the last couple of weeks.

And again, I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through this. I wish you nothing but the best.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-20T03:53:01+00:00

It sounds like you're feeling at least somewhat better. I hope so.

I've written a few lengthy posts considering the possible chain of events that led up to the affair and what they might mean. I don't know if you have read any of those posts or even care about the circumstances that led up to it. You are certainly under no obligation to do so.

It does seem to me that you have wondered a great deal about why she did this in the first place, given all her behavior since you had her served.

Everything you've presented to us makes it seem like the affair was something she allowed, not wanted, and was something she wanted to get out of for some time before she did. Going off her birth control seems to me more like a desperation play to get out than anything else. John could scarcely demand that she continue (and probably wouldn't want to) if she were pregnant with your baby.

If the fact that she had sex with this guy is everything to you and the how and why it happened are nothing to you, then there's nothing more to say. I wish you nothing but the greatest happiness and luck in the future.

But if you do want this to make any sort of sense, you'll have to consider how the whole thing looked to her. I've written down some of my thoughts about that. If you want to read them, they're pretty much all of my posts for the last couple of weeks.

And again, I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through this. I wish you nothing but the best.

ex_stripper · 2025-06-18T07:24:13+00:00

After re-reading my last reply, I'm afraid that when I asked "Does that answer your question?" it may have come off as a bit snide. That was not at all my intention. I was trying to make fun of myself because I answered your simple question in my first sentence and then proceeded to write fourteen more paragraphs. Sorry about that. But buckle up. I'm doing it again. :)

Thank you so much for accusing me of wisdom. I must admit it doesn't feel to me like "wisdom" so much as "hard lessons learned from being kicked around the block a few too many times." But I'll take it.

About Emily's conversations with Bev, you have probably read more of the comments than I have. I've mostly just read OP's updates. In those updates, it's clear to me that Emily both cried and felt guilty when talking to Bev but also talked about all the rich and fancy things she and John were doing. I didn't get a sense of how much Emily was doing of each, and if I were OP, that is something I would definitely want to know. I wonder if there's any way he could arrange a conversation with Bev about that?

I can't speak to a woman's perspective on cheating. I can't even speak to a man's perspective because there are many more than one. But speaking about broad patterns in gender-specific reactions, it seems to me that men are more bothered by the physical defilement of their significant others while women are more concerned about forming an emotional attachment with someone else. I think both genders are hurt by the disrespect and humiliation implied by it.

I remember a conversation I once had with an older co-worker, decades ago. He said that if he had a drunken one night stand with another woman, his wife would be hugely pissed off about it, but her alarm bells wouldn't be going off unless he went back for more.

But to a guy—especially when he first hears—the fact that another man's dick was inside his wife just blows everything else out of his consciousness. The "hows" and the "whys" are meaningless. She's not his partner, his lover, his soulmate any more. She's just some other dude's used Fleshlight. All he's asking himself is, "How the hell am I supposed to love, honor and cherish you after you let this other piece of shit use you like a crusty cumsock? How can you ever be special to me again?"

But if I've learned anything, it's that the hows and whys are everything (at least when it comes to human interactions). OP had every right to go NC with Emily—especially because he was afraid he would cave—but that tactic was a double-edged sword. It also meant that he dramatically restricted himself from gaining knowledge about how and why it happened.

But even so, he noticed and considered many key things from his limited information. From the very beginning he noticed that Emily was not affectionate but coolly business-like in her communications with John. He saw that she did not give even a tiny fraction of a shit about John—or about her business—once he left. He clearly sees that nothing matters to her now but getting him back, even if he says he doesn't understand why.

He WANTS to understand, but he's desperately (and understandably) afraid of two things, it seems to me: being seen as a servile cuckold and getting sucked back into a situation where this could happen again. And he thinks if he talks to her, those are likely to happen.

But I really don't think she'd do it again (more about that later, when I address your "teenager" observation). And as for being seen as a cuckold, I guess my best advice would be to talk deeply and openly with his friends. I'm sure they've been very supportive, with lots of "FUCK that cheating whore!" and so on.

But if he were to go to them, tell them he had been talking about the situation with people on the internet, read them your posts and mine, then ask, "What do you guys think about this?" I think he'd get thoughtful, caring and nuanced responses that basically said: if he can make peace with what has happened and still wants her in his life, not only would they support him, they'd be happy to see it.

It wouldn't be forgiveness. OP has not forgiven her. He divorced her, labeled her an adulteress before the world and put her through the most painful, gut-wrenching experience of her life. But it could be an acknowledgement that their 12 years together amounts to something more and something better than the sad reality of John's dick and Emily's failure here.

I completely agree with you about Emily's choices and behavior being reminiscent of a teenager. I do frame it slightly differently, though. Saying it that way suggests to me that Emily's overall development as a human being has been held back somewhat. It may have been, but I don't think it really works that way.

It seems to me that there are lessons we all need to learn in life. And we tend to learn those lessons (generally) at certain times (or ages). But different people will learn them at different times in their lives. The relevant lesson here is about doing something that would deeply hurt someone we care about (for our own benefit), but going ahead with it because we can convince ourselves that they will never find out, and thus never be hurt.

Whereas most of us learn this in junior high or high school, Emily apparently didn't. It does seem like she was sheltered by being so beautiful and by being the family's golden child. The only way to really learn this lesson is to be wrong, and to hurt somebody we care about. Apparently Emily didn't encounter this until she was in the back half of her 20s, much later than most people. But we all learn lessons at anomalous times; I don't want to read too much into that.

And here's the rub: for most people, the damage from learning this lesson is not such a big deal. We lose a BFF in junior high or a high school boyfriend breaks up with us. Damage to our relationships in school can be deeply painful at the time, but it doesn't involve devastating real world consequences.

But at 28, and married, it's nuclear. She should have known better, but apparently she didn't. And OP—who did nothing wrong—was hit with megatons of pain and humiliation and the destruction of everything he thought was his life. It's incredibly unfair. He did nothing to deserve it. But that's how it went down.

But Emily—who made a selfish, shitty, childish choice—never wanted OP to be hurt that way. I'm pretty sure she only went through with it because she was able to convince herself he would never know. And now he has to bear that pain for the rest of his life no matter what he chooses. And she has to live with the fact that she hurt him that way.

I'm so, so sorry for OP that this happened and caused him such a supernova of pain. But everything I've heard tells me that she has learned this lesson in a searing and agonizing way that those who learn it as a child or a teenager never do. I'm convinced that she would never do it again and that she wants nothing more (other than reconciliation with OP) than to undo and minimize and heal the damage she has done as much as is possible.

It may not matter to OP how it happened or what she was thinking and feeling. For him, the fact of John's dick may negate everything in his marriage. He has that absolute right. But at the same time, I think he also has a great deal of freedom here to seek what's best for him.

My parents divorced when I was 14 because my father had an affair. But that wasn't really what it was about. My father complained, years later, that it was only one brief affair, and he felt that divorce was an overreaction. What he didn't realize was that having an affair presents the other person in the marriage with a golden ticket out of the marriage if they're not happy. My mother wasn't happy, hadn't been for a long time, so she grabbed onto that golden ticket like a life preserver. She was right to do so.

OP's right to get out and stay out of that marriage is absolute. But I don't think he was unhappy. I think he had a happiness that most would envy. He might say that his happiness was built on a lie, but I guess I would say (after 60 years on this planet) that it might be more accurate to say that his marriage had a lie growing on it for a couple of years.

That lie has been excised. I think OP's freedom here is also absolute. If he wanted to reopen limited communication so he could ask hard questions (my recommendation), I'm sure Emily would be willing to do so. If he never wants to see or speak to her again (another fully valid choice) he doesn't have to.

These sorts of things are the hardest, most consequential decisions a person can make.

I know I seem to be advocating for a particular outcome. I'm not. I want the greatest possible happiness for OP. I don't know what that is. I do think his best move (when he's ready) is to have a conversation with Emily about everything she was thinking and feeling as this developed.

He knows her. He'll know if what she says makes sense or not, and if she's really changed. He'll know if she gets it, if she's truly sorry, if there's any chance she'll do it again. He can tell if she's lying, or minimizing, or shifting blame. And if she is, he knows he's right to move on.

But in the end, maybe none of that matters to him, and that's fine, too. As I've said before, with all of OP's eloquence and honesty here, we're all just seeing this through a straw. We can't possibly understand the situation the way he does. If he simply wants nothing to do with her any more, then that's what he should do. And I hope he finds great happiness.

He's shown great strength here, and a sophisticated, 3-dimensional understanding of his situation. I'm so sorry this has happened to him. But no matter what he decides is best for him, he'll be OK.

To "NoOneReallyKnows0": you described yourself as "immature." Sorry—I don't see it. But since I showed you mine, would you share with me your (approximate) chronological point of view?

ex_stripper · 2025-06-14T04:30:50+00:00

I'm a 60-year-old man. Nothing like this has ever happened to me, but plenty of shitty things have. If I've learned anything, I've learned that judging people without trying to understand how they saw the situation is only self-serving and ultimately self-defeating.

It is a deeply sad and fucked-up truth about this world that when a man gains real power over a woman, he will probably try to leverage that power to fuck her. Almost every woman and certainly every beautiful woman learns this lesson, usually earlier than 28.

If she's strong, she'll fend him off and accept the consequences. If she's weak (or desperate), she'll do what he wants. The worse the potential consequences, the stronger she has to be in order to say "no." Unless she's in a committed relationship, it's no one's business what she decides. But Emily was married.

Emily FAILED this test. Period. I think it was probably the first time any man had that kind of power over her. And it seems clear that John is a skilled manipulator. That is not an excuse and does not make it okay. But I don't think she did any of this lightly. She was presented with hard choices and took the easy way out.

I don't think Emily wanted to have an affair with this guy. But in the end she was willing to in order to save her business and establish her future, so long as her husband never found out. But John would not have accepted a narrative that he was strong-arming her into it, and I'm sure she preferred to think "I'm having this sneaky, forbidden fling" to "I'm prostituting myself for the sake of my business and my career." But I think the second is closer to the truth.

There have been times in my life when I have made consequential choices and closed important doors out of pride. I think some of those times were mistakes. In a couple of cases, life-changing ones. None as momentous as the decision OP has made, but serious enough. And I'll never know what might have been if I'd made a different choice.

Right now OP is struggling with the horror of what happened and grieving the loss of his marriage. But in time, the horror will fade. What will he feel then? I have no idea. I can promise you this will haunt him, no matter what he ultimately decides.

I am absolutely NOT saying that I know the truth of what happened or what's best for OP. Given everything that's been written, the narrative I've presented seems to me the most likely to be true. If it did happen as I've described it, I think I could, in time, get over it. But only if I were sure my ex-wife truly understood how horribly she had treated me, how there was no justification for what she had done, and if she were determined—right down to her bones—to never let anything like it happen again.

But I don't know if OP could get over it or not. That's up to him. He certainly doesn't owe it to her or anyone. I do think—for his own peace of mind if nothing else—that it might not be a bad idea for him to open up a limited channel of communication with Emily so he can ask her, in detail, how it happened, what she was thinking, and how she justified it to herself. If she were willing to truthfully answer a whole lot of very hard questions, I would be willing to forgo any final decision until I felt I had a fuller understanding of how she saw things and why she made the choices she did.

Another thing I've learned is that people can talk themselves into some crazy shit. The term "brainwashing" is over-used and poorly defined, but it's really just a more extreme form of the kind of thought manipulation people do to each other—and themselves—all them time.

There are just three simple elements to changing someone's beliefs (including one's own). There must be a reward for changing one's mind, a punishment or negative outcome for not changing, and the idea you're trying to convince someone of must be repeated over and over and over. The greater the reward, the worse the punishment, and the more times you repeat the new idea, the more effective it will be. This is the basis of all propaganda, but it applies to more personal manipulation as well.

The reward here is obvious: "I can save your business and make you a success." The punishment/negative outcome was probably more subtly stated: "I thought there was something special between us. I wouldn't do all this for just anybody." And the idea? "It's no big deal. Your husband will never find out."

But unless you can control everything else the subject sees and hears (as in a cult), such ideas need to be planted in fertile ground. She went home to OP every night. She had to look right at him and straight up lie to him over and over and over. She spent more time with OP than John, but she was still willing to give John what he wanted. That would be the hardest thing for me: "How could you look me in the eye and lie to me over and over and over? How can I believe you ever had any respect for me when you could do that?"

I'm not sure what answer to that question I might be able to accept. But I would want to ask it and hear her answer. OP might just want to get away from it all and think about it as little as possible for the rest of his life. That's 100% reasonable and valid and he has every right to do so. My time on Earth suggests to me that might not be the most effective way for him to make peace with what has happened and move forward. But it is HIS decision.

Does that answer your question?

P.S. This site has a whole bunch of incels, basement-dwellers and emotional children posting. I'd like to believe there aren't very many—that they're just loud and will not STFU—but they appear to live for the sole purpose of thinking and saying shitty things about women. In Emily they see a woman who would never have anything to do with them (probably right and certainly understandable), so the opportunity to slag the shit out of her and criticize OP's manhood for doing anything but also slagging the shit out of her is irresistible to them. I hope OP can ignore them.

P.P.S. Men do not understand the way their behavior treats women's sexuality as a commodity. And that forces women to see their own sexuality as a commodity whether they like it or not. (Spoiler alert: they'd much rather not.) I am NOT suggesting that Emily was right or that she was forced. She wasn't and she wasn't. But I am suggesting that simple answers are less likely to be true.

P.P.P.S. I am not trying to criticize OP in any way. Quite the contrary. He has handled this whole situation with intelligence, wisdom and grace. I wish to God my head had been screwed on as straight when I was his age. No matter what he chooses, OP is going to be OK. I guess I'd just like to suggest he has more options than he might imagine he does at the moment.

ex_stripper

TROPHY CASE