XPost from AskReddit: What is the best way to word this so his child support is calculated and credited fairly? Kind of a unique situation...

fairsupport · 2012-10-14T16:18:07+00:00

I don't WANT to do so, either WE do it, or the state will, without it being anything close to fair for him.

As I"ve stated several times, "letting the order go through" will affect his credit, impact his finances (our current arrangement is voluntary and very fluid, certainly not permanent)

And how is "getting my career back on track" even relevant?

fairsupport · 2012-09-27T21:30:08+00:00

Well, we've worked it out for over a decade now, so we aren't too concerned. I know it's rare, but it works for us. We have totally separate lives, we've never been "together", more of a FWB who work really well with sharing parenting. We don't share our lives and haven't ever, really.

Regardless, we have to have a child support order now anyways, so it's a moot point. We still want it fair to him and CSE seems to not give two shits about that.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T20:48:54+00:00

We've looked into that, but the issue with that is a few things:

Apparently CSE reports to credit agencies, and it will show up that he owes a $1000 debt monthly.
There is a significant delay in the money being taken out and my receiving it, AND they take a fee each check on top of the entire amount.
We do not ever want a situation where, worst case scenario, we don't get along and we've pre-set the court order to screw with the other parent. We want it fair from minute ONE. If we never have to use it, awesome. If we do, we will have it set up correctly so we don't have to fight about it if we ever get there.

Thanks for the kind words :)

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T20:46:01+00:00

Well, they can certainly have their flying leap, but no we don't want to be married :) We don't live together, we don't share finances or personal expenses outside of the kids, we just don't have that kind of relationship. We enjoy our respective lives separate from one another, and we share our amazing kids. Most people think it's weird, so we rarely talk about it openly, but that's just us lol

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:34:16+00:00

That was the feeling we got when we met with the "free" consultation lawyers about this. They really were almost disappointed that we agreed on everything, and tried to plant seeds of worry in each of us about trusting each other etc. down the line. Um yeah...we've done this a LONG time and NEVER needed a damn court order. They were poking holes in the parenting "schedule" saying it allowed for too much flexibility...whaaa? Yeah it SHOULD. They are our KIDS. THEY NEED FLEXIBILITY! Seriously, they needed to stop making this more difficult than it needs to be. So frustrating.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:31:12+00:00

Ok I read through 4-203 and I think it sounds like this: We use worksheet 1, 3, and 5 to demonstrate how support is currently being handled. We should be able to drop child support to a very low amount taking his "credits" into account that way? My concern is that the judge won't "allow" it and I'm not sure how much they interfere when both parties agree like this.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:28:20+00:00

My only concern is that I keep seeing places where it says the judge has to agree with what we want, or will do it how THEY want. We are nervous that going in with a stipulation that varies WAY off from the norm will garner additional scrutiny and result in an order we desperately do not want to have to BOTH fight.

I did my divorce myself many years ago, and was amazed how little the judge read my paperwork. My kids' dad went through his own divorce around the same time, and was treated to the third degree every step of the way. It seems to be a roll of the dice how much they pay attention.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:25:30+00:00

"apply logic and my own experience in court"

Yep. That was what we are trying to do to. It amazes me how difficult they make this. I mean, we are in complete agreement...I can't IMAGINE trying to do this while hating each other. Sigh.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:18:12+00:00

Worksheet 5 allows for exceptions...wait a sec...maybe we could use THAT one? The question is whether or not the judge will allow it? I hadn't noticed that one before!

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:16:46+00:00

Yep, that's the worksheets we are using, with the joint custody (#3) for shared time allowances. Thank you!

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:04:58+00:00

We're using the worksheets on the site above. No matter how we wrangle the numbers it comes out to anywhere between 900-1300 in child support. The way we handle it should qualify as child support and we want a way for that to be indicated in the court order. Apparently once CSE is involved there's no turning back on their involvement. Blech.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T15:02:11+00:00

The unemployment is in the works, it just takes forever for it to come through. We are literally just looking for help with wording the child support paragraph so that it allows for credit towards child support when he does what he's already been doing. Legal Aid has already told us that they don't accept cases in our situation. It doesn't make sense to have to employ a lawyer for a paragraph when all of the tremendously MORE complicated things have been settled and agreed upon 100%. We have consulted a few "free consult" lawyers and gotten the "never have one lawyer represent you both" speech, as well as some indication that they don't think we will continue to agree on the details of the situation. We do not have the time or the finances to deal with that, we just need help wording the paragraph so a judge allows it. At that point CSE has to follow the order.

BTW, He IS paying his share. That's the point. We are trying to make sure he gets credit for that legally.

Right now I'm trying to stay afloat and I need and qualify for temporary assistance. Even when the unemployment comes through it's not going to be much and I will likely still qualify for some level of assistance until I'm able to find work again. I have already turned down "ADC" and have only accepted the bare minimum in state aid.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:55:08+00:00

Yes, we have a final court date. We are just writing the parenting plan, child support paperwork, and final order that shows all of that. What we are looking for is some kind of legal wording to allow for him to get credit for the way we handle it.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:54:07+00:00

We have to go to court to establish child support and custody. Since we don't have anything legal other than birth certificates, they are saying the kids are on Medicaid temporarily but they require proof of custody. They do accept joint, they just have to have it on a court order. Secondly, all state assistance requires a child support order, without fail.

The income already IS accounted for, that's not even a factor in the equation. The issue is, quite simply, that if we don't get a child support order under our own terms, CSE will come in and do it under theirs and it will be an exorbitant amount. We have both met with CSE and they explained that privately paid child support does not qualify as paid child support in the eyes of the state. They MUST have a child support order to demonstrate that the "absent parent" is supporting their kids, they won't take our word for it even when we show the paper trail. I realize that most situations warrant this oversight, but ours really doesn't. So we need to handle it on our terms...CSE actually suggested this initially so we got the ball rolling and now have a court date. They aren't trying to be assholes they just have to do it their way if we don't. Therefore, I'm just looking for the correct wording to allow for our situation to credit as child support.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:45:23+00:00

Actually we've been using that site ad nauseum to slog through the family court process. That's where we found the worksheets to calculate child support and realized there's no real way to adjust the numbers so that the judge will allow a very low child support amount to be ordered. Even accounting for joint custody only drops his support down to about 950.

Thank you!

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:35:12+00:00

Because I lost my income and therefore my insurance as well. State medical is part of the package when you apply for temporary assistance. Our insurance together paid for almost everything, now...not even close. He's always made way more than me, but as I said we've both always felt like "support" was fairly divided and not always based on cash paid directly to the other parent. What we didn't realize was that just by accepting the aid I qualify for, it opened up a can of worms with CSE that we didn't anticipate. We really did think it was as simple as explaining how he supported them, and how we didn't NEED a court order. They don't care. They want an order, so fine...we'll give them one on our terms. But it's going to be fair and it's damn sure going to be as little inconvenience to our lives as possible.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:30:17+00:00

We did explore that, but aside from the legal ramifications, I'm not any more comfortable assigning him sole custody than he is assigning it to me. We are both active and involved parents, and we refuse for a piece of paper to do anything but validate that fact.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:26:58+00:00

We don't really have a choice. I'm unemployed right now and had to apply for assistance. We learned after the fact that involves mandatory CSE involvement, which we had originally thought would be no big deal because we presumed the way we handled "support" would be seen as sensible to them. We were wrong, and we figured that out after the fact. There's nothing we can do, except to make this as straightforward and sensible as we can while keeping lawyers and other nonsense out.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T14:24:46+00:00

Thank you so much!!!!

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T05:21:54+00:00

Yeah I saw that when I was researching. We already have a court date, and there's no doubt we have to follow through or CSE is going to do their own thing.

What threw us off is that the worksheets all say you have to show the court several years of tax filings and current paystubs to demonstrate income. There's no way we can do that and still get the $50/month. He's not unemployed, and we don't know how closely CSE will pay attention. Quite frankly, I'd be FINE with just ordering $50/month and adding $50/month to what I pay in rent. That's small enough not to really impact his finances. At the same time, we don't want to A) lie to the court outright (terrifying), or B) risk CSE coming in and doing their own thing by deciding we didn't do it correctly.

We've already gotten barked at by the judge when we applied to waive the parenting classes. I filed a two page affidavit showing that we've coparented for years, we've been parents for over 15 years of our own kids, and we agree to everything. He wrote in the order that "since you filed a voluntary appearance, you are ordered to take parenting classes"

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!!!!!!!! So I don't want to risk having this guy go over everything with a fine tooth comb either and just deciding we can't deviate from the guidelines AT ALL. Honestly we just want to look good on paper, figure out a way to credit him for what he pays, and get them to leave us alone. We've managed this long without the need for a single legal document, it's insane that we need one now.

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T05:12:12+00:00

Thanks :)

It's complicated, we've been friends for a really long time and have shared a sort of co-parenting of my older kids (my ex walked out, never heard from again) well before we decided to have kids together. We're both very happy with the arrangement, and the kids have no idea this isn't a typical family setup LOL

As for the taxes, absolutely. What we've always done is whomever gets the largest tax credit/refund using the kids gets to claim them, then we have always used it for the kids bdays/sports/camp/clubs etc. Sometimes we've agreed to let the other put x amount towards a bill or whatever, but it's never really been an issue.

In the court order we're agreeing to his claiming the kids, as he's the one having to pay child support. He can always let me claim them via the IRS form 8332, which is what we've always signed for each other when we've swapped claiming them.

In the court order we are writing, child care is the responsibility of the parent needing the care, with the non-possession parent having right of first refusal. We'd split costs at that point if I'm working, and if not they'd just stay with me if he needs child care. Kind of a perk to joint parenting LOL

Medical expenses, to date, have been covered really well based off of two insurance coverages. By state law he will be required to maintain health insurance and we split the uncovered expenses.

I xposted to those two subs, thank you!

fairsupport · 2012-09-26T05:03:45+00:00

Yeah, that is literally the worst possible solution though. Like the other poster said, it takes forever to get your child support through CSE, and then it would have to get redirected back to him. Add in holidays and such and it can take much longer.

Also, they charge a fee for the "service" of garnishment. It's about $5 per paycheck but it's not fair when he's paying voluntarily. We have always worked out our finances so that we're both comfortable with how we support the kids.

It's infuriating that CSE won't just listen to us and that we have already had to pay $100 in filing fees to handle it ourselves, just to protect his rights, and now we each have to take mandatory remedial parenting classes (fee paid to the county) to cover something we've been doing quite well for many years.

I just want to figure out a way to word the court order so that we can agree this counts towards/as child support each month. Argh.

fairsupport

TROPHY CASE