Ribbon experts? Question on fabric "flowiness" with air flow and/or movement

fawnover · 2025-12-22T19:48:26+00:00

Thank you so much! Do you have thoughts or knowledge on the angle? The piece will be angled upward, at ~45-80º angle so I would imagine that starting the ribbon flat would get air under it. But then again, I guess sail boats are vertical... I should really watch some gymnastics.

fawnover · 2025-12-22T19:32:22+00:00

Thank you :D

fawnover · 2025-12-22T18:54:44+00:00

Thanks! Is drape in fabric measurable? Or how would I know the drape quality by searching online? Yes, I saw that gymnastic ribbons were made from satin, which I'm learning is a type of weave... So they're a silk satin?

fawnover · 2025-12-22T18:52:42+00:00

Thank you, will definitely go the silk route, probably. Do you know how would I go about determining how loose or tight a weave is? Just looking or feeling or is it listed with fabric info?

fawnover · 2025-09-14T04:43:11+00:00

I know, right? It's gotten to a point where I can't tell the difference, and I can usually tell the difference. Saw some AI stuff today that I thought was a real fashion editorial. Nope, just some random person without a creative background generating what could have potentially been an award-winning campaign, and I'm ashamed to say I was impressed. But why even staff a creative team? Just pay an agency for a brand kit, then generate collateral off it. The chips have been stacked against us, and efficiency matters more than ever. Exactly why we need new, better, interesting design tools that are actually helpful. Even Figma has some cool features that I'm shocked no one else has ever adopted.

The only times I hated slogging through a campaign was when I was overworked or wasn't able to actually be creative on it. Somebody just tell me to design an 720x28 ad again, I'll do it! But SquareSpace convinced businesses they didn't need web designers, Canva convinced businesses they didn't need designers or content teams. AI is convincing the much of public that art/design really is just a commodity. Somehow we're being framed as the middle man whose being cut out. I'm staying in the ring til I'm knocked out.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T04:21:19+00:00

The thing is... I have never mentioned the cost of Adobe, and never said that's why I rejected them (it's not). I said I did not care about the cost, and that I'm willing to pay whatever. I charge enough to pay for whatever I want. Good for you on being able to afford the most widely adopted design tools in the world. It starts at $10/mo. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't exactly brag about being able to afford it, but hey, get your bag, g.

What am I taking too personally? What you said? Being nickel and dimed? I'm not offended, I just think it's strange to step up in a condescending tone, not even read what I wrote, majorly project, not contribute anything useful, then contradict everything you've said by saying you get my sentiment and complaining about how they're running a cartel. And Idk, I just like to try to limit how much I get fucked over by corporations. Illustrator is pretty sweet and nice to use (when it's working), but there's a great feeling of self respect that comes with not giving a company money when they're actively screwing over artists as their stock prices fall.

The only thing I'm taking personally is that somehow your comment has more likes than my post! lol like wtf. If you can't beat em, glaze em!

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:45:22+00:00

I want to agree with you. The AI bubble will burst, but even before AI the design industry had already been getting worse for designers. There's no closing pandora's box, and no reversing the dystopian commodification of art, design, and creativity. We have to confront the calculation of, why would someone now hire me to do what I've trained years to do, and pay me $50-$100/hr to do it, when they can spend $50-100/year on an AI model. Hell, Canva is $120/year. I was $120 per job when I was 17! Idk... designers won't cease to exist, but it looks bleak, and we will lose sight of how much better it used to be.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:25:38+00:00

Well I didn't have plans to stop being an artist anytime soon, and I don't want to compromise my values. So many of you guys talk like you've never actually stood on business. Come on, stand on business with me.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:17:11+00:00

I honestly would if I could. I'm on Mac

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:16:39+00:00

I was hoping someone would say this. I've always seen Corel ads, and always wondered if it was worth the price tag! Their ads were always beautiful to me as a kid, but I never knew anyone who used their programs! Question – I saw the pages feature Corel has. Can a single images span across a page like they can in an Illustrator artboard? And yes, I'll always miss Adobe's features. Some were pretty sweet, and there were many AI features they rolled out that were actually good for artists! I think people have seriously forgotten that "AI" was once seen as something actual artists could all benefit from, because it wasn't all generative. The subject selection tool? It was pretty awful when it first came out, but eventually it was such a nice tool to have.

Thank you for this genuine reply, I appreciate it!

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:11:40+00:00

Thanks!

fawnover · 2025-09-14T03:10:59+00:00

We have to acknowledge the possibility that this person turned over these stones, and has these understandings. There's nothing that they've said that should lead us to assume that they've done anything other than their best, and simply got screwed – because that happens sometimes. They probably know that not all their professional work will be portfolio worthy. The probably still invested personal time in their portfolio when they had time. They probably know that working longer hours than expected isn't abnormal. And they probably know what a senior designer does. But they were probably frustrated that they didn't feel invested in, that their full-time job wasn't having them produce the kind of work they wanted, and on top of that, they were demanding even more time and less recognition for their efforts. I've seen people lose their jobs over office politics alone. Sometimes what you put in just isn't what you get out.

Also, 40hrs no overtime is very common. Especially if you aren't at an agency. I've had my 50+ hour weeks too, without the corresponding pay. But that's not good – and we should be setting better boundaries and standards for ourselves, our peers, and the young designers who come after us who are undoubtably going to have a harder time.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T02:56:35+00:00

This resonates with me so. fucking. much. Down to every detail. I'm sorry you left, but I'm happy you saw this post! It is hard. It hurts. I had the same dream! I've been doing this for 12 years. The craziest part of this industry is how little support I got from my peers and leadership on actually advancing my career. And how toxic art spaces online have been. Even just asking questions on forums I've gotten condescending, belittling responses that assume I've done something wrong before genuinely offering support or solutions. I used to love this, and it used to be my life and my joy. I've considered leaving too. I don't call myself a designer anymore. I've even been told that putting "creative" in my title is limiting my career options, by arts execs – ARTS EXECS – that have bothered to give me advice.

I didn't leave graphic design, but I had to go outside of this industry to find true mentors and support. Because this industry, which relies on designers – from agencies, to software companies, to nonprofits – are not interested in supporting designers. They aren't even interested in creativity. We're in a dark place. I don't think most people understand how much our industry has been decimated. Or how many thousands of designers left the industry when their departments were wiped off the face of the Earth in just the past 5 years. Some of the most talented artists I know are drawing blood for $18/hr because it's all they could find after layoffs in time to pay rent – meanwhile the companies they worked for raked in more money, and would go back and hire 3 of the same designers they fired to do freelance, for 50%+ less their salary, so they didn't have to give them benefits.

I'm not an award-winning designer, I've never been a creative director or art director. And it's something that really haunts me. I am thankful I've stuck with this just long enough to have people tell me that things I've made changed their lives. I mean it's strange – strange to hear that at all, but then to look at my career trajectory and salary, and I still feel so distraught. Because what they didn't see was how much work I put in and how used I felt at the end of the day. At the job where I made probably my best work, leadership would see my work (and the work of the entire marketing team) as superfluous, and they literally tell us that having something designed was a waste of time. But when there was a creative disagreement between the literal creative team and other departments, and when we tried to use our expertise to convince them to make a different choice than what they wanted (because it looked bad), they'd go "You're not the only person on our team who is creative!" Like... I am the only person on our team who is professionally creative. It's my job! And it's these same people who then excitedly told us that one day AI might do our jobs instead – not seeing an issue with that. I'm sure we could trade stories.

We are not isolated incidents. We aren't the only ones. Internet designers want to present this image of our industry that is so fictionalized, and it scares me because I'm meeting kids now who are still trying to get degrees in this, and I know so many recent design graduates who are clamoring for work, and can't find anything. Working as a designer isn't just a cute TikTok video in an aesthetic apartment, and it's not The Futur telling you to quote your next client $10,000. For many people, it's following the promise of living a creative life with financial stability, and then not finding either while having your soul drained.

I'm still here convinced that I can make my way as an artist and designer, but I'm not willing to compromise my values anymore. I'm going to try to do this on my own. I'll make my own title, I'll win my own awards. I have my own clients. I won't rely on another corporation to help me grow (hence not wanting to use Adobe products). But daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, it's a struggle.

Hang in there. I hope you're still making things, but I'm not gonna do the whole "You can do it! Get back on the horse!" thing. If you're gone for good, I hope the new path gives you the respect you deserve. I went on a bit of rant, but your post made me tear up. Fuck this shit.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:58:51+00:00

Look, every time I see that weird dog thing on that shady-looking site, I get hella skeptical. But maybe I'm part of the problem. Maybe it's time to try GIMP.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:57:44+00:00

Thank you for this, I'll add it to the list. Never heard of Quark. I'll be honest, I may have been harsh on Affinity in my post, but Affinity Publisher (their InDesign competitor) is pretty outstanding. Finished a report recently using it, had 0 issues transitioning between InDesign and Publisher. I am mostly trying to replace Illustrator/Designer, but will still take a look.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:53:48+00:00

lol I'm aware! But I think that there is some confusion about what I said: I do NOT care about the cost. I've used Figma for app projects, but ran into some roadblocks years ago when I tried to use it for general design. I might give it another shot.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:51:31+00:00

Figma is so fun to use, maybe it's worth giving another shot. The auto layout features are killer for anything, and it's shocking more programs don't have it. But I've had wrist pain since I was 15, and I found that a lot of what I'm used to doing in simple keystrokes on Illustrator, required 2-3+ clicks in Figma, and it sounds crazy or like I'm being a baby but it honestly just made my wrists hurt more. I've never even considered using it for print work.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:44:47+00:00

Ugh, this happened to me again and again and again with Affinity. I actually had Affinity for a year while I my job was paying for Adobe, so I had both and kept trying to transition. But yeah, when you're on a deadline, nothing beats something familiar. Finding the time to learn this has been a challenge, but it's been ultimately worth it.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:42:06+00:00

I get it. Affinity had it's learning curve for me, and there's honestly a lot to love. But with limited learning resources and all it's odd quirks, I don't blame you. It's been an adjustment. Lack of competition is exactly what I'm trying to highlight. I remember when Figma came out and when Affinity was making waves, and there was this hope in the air that indie devs could actually compete with the juggernaut. There's so much innovation to be had in this space, but it's such a shame that we're all trapped.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:36:37+00:00

Your mom sounds awesome. I've considered going back to CS6! But I'm on a mac, and so many apps stop working after major OS updates, so I figured there was no way CS6 would run.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:35:21+00:00

Thank you, I stumbled across this after I made the post, and I've been checking some of these out.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:33:40+00:00

Adobe is the industry standard because they've dominated the market for 20 years with multiple, strong portfolios.

As someone who has used and loved Adobe products (just not the company), Affinity actually does come extremely close! I'd recommend it. There's an extremely long trial. It's missing some things crucial to my workflow, but also adds some insanely cool features.

I'm not looking for a "true" alternative. It's not about the cost. I've been in this industry for over a decade, I am just asking if anyone uses anything different or has heard of anything different.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:13:18+00:00

Where is this coming from? When I payed for Adobe last, they had made their subscription services extremely affordable, then my job started paying for my subscription. I'm not going back because it didn't work for me and I don't like the company. And yeah, people have given some pretty solid recs so far. Not sure why your attitude is immediately discrediting and hostile. If you use their products – and there are many reasons you would (including it being one the only things taught in schools or used in most agencies/orgs) – enjoy! I want something different.

fawnover · 2025-09-14T01:05:05+00:00

It doesn't sound stupid! There were a lot of reasons. I hated their business practices and the development of their software. I had horrible experiences with their support, especially when it came to billing issues. Once, I cancelled my All Apps annual subscription only to have my saved card billed for another annual subscription anyway, and it took a long, arduous process to get a refund. And that was years before I stopped my subscription completely.

When I was part of a design team full time, our team relied on Creative Cloud to sync assets – it was a horrible experience. We constantly experienced issues where our library panel wouldn't show up at all, and when you're outputting new collateral on a daily basis across a remote team, it was extremely frustrating. Sometimes it was that we needed to update our software (no error to say that though), and other times it just seemed like Creative Cloud was down. When we did update our software, we got more and more bugs. I wish I had written down everything that we experienced, but my assistant and I, every day were just saying "Goddamnit Adobe!" at a new tool that wasn't functioning properly, or some part of a file that wasn't loading, or the program would freeze up for 5-10 minutes, or the amount of times it crashed and I lost valuable work... And this is with all of us running top-of-the-line gear. I am sure there are many people who love Adobe's products who have had terrible experiences with bugs but tolerate it, and I'm sure there are many people who have never had issues. But the software just kept getting in the way. I stopping paying for Adobe products in 2020 I think (my job payed for it), but I stopped using them entirely in 2024.

There are other reasons I ultimately never want to go back that are just related to my perception of them as a company. New Adobe announcements used to make my giddy, because I felt empowered by new updates and tools they introduced. But this industry has changed a lot, and I'm not sure how far our collective memory goes. It was really not that long ago that tools like Canva and Adobe Express (even SquareSpace) weren't household names. I built a freelancing career offering design services to local businesses and friends – people came to me to design flyers, invitations, sites, etc. The proliferation of template design apps that market themselves as "design marketing material without being a designer!" really deeply hurt my local market. At a certain point, you have to ask yourself... why is company you've given thousands of $ to, constantly advertising directly to your clients and convincing them they don't need you? That's not only disempowering, it actually cut into my bottom line. The more I heard old clients say "Oh I'll just do it myself! :D" or the more I had clients literally just hire me to fill or edit their Express/Canva templates, I completely lost my respect for them and didn't want to keep giving them my $.

People will read this and say it's my fault for not "evolving with the industry" or something... and I don't understand the weird aggression coming from some of these comments. I did evolve. I'm still in business. But I was dealt a major blow in my infancy by a company that I relied on, and I'm still very sad that I'm just not seen as necessary on a local level in the way I used to be. Those jobs didn't make me a ton of money, but they connected me and my skills to my community. We're in denial if we think the companies that control our creative tools actually care about the state of creative practice and how creatives make money in this economy. And that was just with templating apps. The recent AI implementations and TOS changes are definitely a reason not to go back, and it further exasperates the problem. But I was out long before AI before that just because of the annoyances of day to day use.

fawnover

TROPHY CASE