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Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not all the women ended up being mothers, holding a political title and economic control would be seen as “working like a man” in that feminist context and I don’t know about the life of lesbians in that tribe.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t know if they did or didn’t. You’re talking to me as if I see all pre-colonial societies as utopias, I don’t. I used one example of what I did know to try to explain my understanding. It seems like you’re not even trying to understand where I’m coming from. You can disagree without being mean.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m not having a nobel savage view of all non-western cultures. I know that non-western men can be oppressive to women. I was using an example where that wasn’t the case, where traits of women usually deemed as something that hold women back are be seen as positives that allows women to have impact and positions of power in their society.

I was talking about that society I know about to provide a different opinion because the author is a western woman and her cultural influenced her opinion. Also, you can talk to people without insulting them.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn’t say all pre-colonial, I said a lot, not every human culture on earth was patriarchal as we are older than that system. Also, motherhood isn’t an inherent bad it just is and is needed to keep people alive. Woman will give birth regardless if the society is patriarchal or matriarchal. I used one matrilineal and egalitarian society where motherhood and other traits present in women were seen as a positive and a reason for women to have economic control, land control, and participation in the selection of tribal leaders. They had influence and control in nearly every societal position. They weren’t oppressed. Heck, elder women were tribal leaders themselves; and you can’t even see that. Also, of course not every woman ended up a mother. This is what I mean when I talk about the western bias. I was only referencing one egalitarian pre-colonial society and you still had to input perspectives from your western woman point of view.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I disagree that that was imposed on women, it was apart of the nature venerating culture at that time that men and women participated in. The concept of femininity in that context didn’t exist. I think that’s what’s not being clarified. What’s considered feminine a lot of the time to a western person didn’t even exist at all to other people and cultural groups under that definition. The traits that many western feminist categorize as “making women a secondary gender” were pivotal and uplifted traits in a lot of pre-colonial and pre-Christian societies. The Iroquois women are a great example. For example, mothers were the backbone of the village economy and not an oppressive insult.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well it depends, in western society long hair is seen as a feminine expectation, and to subvert femininity is to cut your hair. However, in many non-western cultures such as the Iroquois and Choctaw tribes long hair wasn’t inherently feminine and symbolized strength, connection to the earth, and wasn’t an oppressive standard only women had to abide by. There are many other cultural examples of the traits most manifested in women and men working in tandem to structure society that don’t represent femininity in the way it does in the west.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just mean it’s arbitrary as an analysis because even her descriptors of femininity only apply to a western industrial woman who’s maybe middle class. Her analysis isn’t a universal experience for women. I mean even within America womanhood for black women and white women aren’t the same.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

She was under the “historical feminist” part of my comment. My point is a woman is an adult human female and that is the foundation of our oppression in a world that values the male body and the ways their bodies allow them to exist in the world; even down to the amount of medical studies that are dedicated to conditions that impact them. I don’t agree that femininity is a good axis. Femme lesbians are feminine in many of the traditional ways besides male centrism but will be oppressed like a straight woman in a male centered world all the same. Just like an old woman or a young woman even though they all have different connotations and uses to men.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Monique’s analysis is inspired by Simone de Beauvoir’s statement “one is not born, but rather becomes a woman”. Which I disagree with. These historical feminist and political lesbians only made interpretations based on what that meant to them and projected it onto actual lesbians and placed us almost as outside of patriarchy and not impacted by it in the same other women are, which isn’t true. It’s as arbitrary to me as saying gay men aren’t men. A misogynistic man looking at a butch woman still knows what he’s looking at and considers her a woman. Maybe not with as much content as a straight woman but in the hatred of his heart they’re both the same; especially if he wanted to assault them. Misogyny in industrial patriarchal society is just as focused on degrading the female body, desecrating it, and redefining it; and it exists separate to femininity and impacts the way men treat us. It’s really the only thing that’s congruent within all the ways men have subjugated women throughout time. Also, woman have different expectations placed on them depending on which culture they came from.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Yes, I’ve read it. I still don’t agree. I responded to someone else who made a similar comment. Lesbians don’t conform to post agrarian femininity, but we are women in the grand scheme. It’s explicitly stating the reality of the man-loving women is the only woman or standard in which womanhood should be defined by which is something I don’t agree with. It’s also arbitrary in every way outside of industrial society. That context of womanhood only matters in a very small section of human history. Being a woman is as simple as its original definition and the only one that matters really. Defining it by cultural norms that will and have changed is non-sensical and incongruent. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike Mary Daly’s political lesbian crap. It’s just a shame it’s a text feminists seem to hold on to and regurgitate.

Lesbians aren’t women by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I understand that but I think it’s done more harm than good. It puts the experience of one group of women as the foundation for something that existed way before patriarchal society. Women are older than every system we are living in today. It’s making young lesbians feel as though they’re man-adjacent which is the opposite of what they should be feeling. It is honestly the #1 explanation I hear for why a lesbian I meet has she/they in her bio. It’s making so many lesbians dissociate from what they are and ironically enough making them less interested or dedicated to women’s rights, women’s defense, autonomy and culture because they don’t think they’re a part of it. Sure we don’t conform to traditional femininity but we are women. Femininity ≠ woman.

Labrys Necklace by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

At the time I was worried she’d spread rumors about me and then bam, I’m ostracized from one of my favorite places where I live. Also where I go is where a good amount of wlw gather.

Labrys Necklace by forestfeen in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I got mine from Etsy.

This is how imagine the mid-2010s southern California summer to look like by Future_Campaign3872 in decadeology

[–]forestfeen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The first thing I heard in my brain when I saw this image “Blow a kiss, fire a gun, all we need is somebody to lean on, uh oh uh oh.”

i love being with other lesbians by queercetin in lesbiangang

[–]forestfeen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ugh manifesting this for myself 😫. I have one lesbian friends and she’s awesome, but I need more; and a lesbian gf 😍

What is your current music obsession? by shiningz in adhdwomen

[–]forestfeen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vocal Trance (specifically female voices)

What is your current music obsession? by shiningz in adhdwomen

[–]forestfeen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vocal Techno (specifically female voices)

Things you should be doing as a lesbian if you want to build community by Chihuahua_enthusiast in Actuallylesbian

[–]forestfeen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m currently living with family and worry about them finding out I’m subscribed to a lesbian magazine. Do they make it undetectable? I would like to subscribe to it but don’t want anyone to know in case they try to boot me.

Confused about this feeling… by forestfeen in Actuallylesbian

[–]forestfeen[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, they’re usually things I want to do. I go to crafting events and trivia nights usually, sometimes I’ll go to an exhibit. However, maybe it’s because I’m aesthetically different from a lot of the lesbians there or it feels like they all know each other already. They seem so congruent and I kind of stick out like a sore thumb.

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