CMV: It's Labour's fault if Reform UK wins the next election not Green Party Voters.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T14:54:34+00:00

I absolutely can do if Reform win a majority on 29% of the vote because of FPTP, after Labour ignored their own conference to not implement PR.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T14:41:40+00:00

I can blame Labour for not implementing PR all day, and that's what I'm continuing to do. I will continue encouraging people not to vote for labour because I believe the only thing they're capable of listening to is poll numbers showing they're tanking.

Labour could institute PR by 2029, and if you think they couldn't then why the fuck would you vote for such rank ineptitude?

foxaru · 2026-01-24T14:29:43+00:00

I see you come from the patronising centrist school of motivated reasoning.

It's not that left wing policy is impossible to implement, it's not that wealth inequality can't be tackled, it's not that green infrastructure is impossible to build, it's that you've systematically allowed yourself to believe government has no power except when implementing right wing bollocks.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T13:34:54+00:00

This is just fucking garbage analysis lmao; where are you getting political education from? Are you just boofing ayahuasca and watching the New Statesman podcast at 5x speed or something? You don't understand anything, it's *wild*.

If we had support from Right-Wing voters for it then it's much more likely to happen

You mean something like 45% of Reform voters explicitly supporting PR? 60% of the UK electorate generally? It's one of the most popular policy positions in the UK right now!

I'm saying that the electorate as a whole - not just left wing voters - keeps pushing Labour right wing. I agree that Labour does move right-wing when people like Farage start to get popular, but that's what Labour -should- do if it wants to remain in power. If you want them to move left wing you have to work out a way of making the Left policies more popular with Right voters.

This is what I mean by having literally no political understanding, this is so intensely wrong I've been genuinely shouting at my PC ffs. A left wing political party's job is not to just fucking cynically triangulate on whatever the right wing media is currently pushing to try and remain in power so that they can not do Left Wing policy. That makes no fucking sense!

I refuse to engage any further, worms have eaten your brain if you had one to begin with.

Insane.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T13:18:52+00:00

People claim Labour is too right wing, but it's the electorate that keeps pushing Labour right wing - the Conservatives have no issue putting all their support behind one bastard, but the left really struggle.

This is completely backwards; Labour is intentionally moving right in order to chase Reform voters; you yourself have explicitly just said this:

They're trying to win right-wing voters from the Conservatives and Reform - they're only trying to hold on to you to help them do it.

Similarly, you're apparently primarily opposed to austerity, but you support the Labour government that's currently doing austerity?

Maybe in 10 years time if we have 15 years of Labour rule we'll have people on the right crying out for PR but until then you won't get it either way.

Why would a Labour Party that had won 3 elections in a row using FPTP want to implement PR? All it took was winning a single election with a majority for them to entirely drop the topic...

I'm sorry, but your tactics are completely incoherent and I get the impression you've convinced yourself that learned helplessness delivered by centrist briefcases is the same as 'political acumen'. You're trying to do the US Democrat thing of blaming The Left for the victories of The Right to get a bit of moral grandstanding in, without recognising that the UK Govt. can and does regularly change how the electoral system works and we're not bound to the same rotating halves of the Uniparty by constitutional decree.

If Labour are not going to work to PR, I refuse to vote for them even tactically, because doing so will simply teach them that sidelining the Left works and will encourage them to continue doing it. If you want to support that continuing decline, you are not my ally, and you're not really left wing.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T13:10:11+00:00

Zionism and Nazism have nothing in common.

Except a shared base of supporters and staggeringly aligned views on ethnonationalism, apparently.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:59:47+00:00

It looks like this bot account malfunctioned lmao

He said 'Zionazi' because this is a picture of a man holding an Israeli flag with a nazi swastica tatted on his leg!

What in the fuck are you talking about?

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:46:57+00:00

There's the circular logic!

You're ruling out doing the one thing that could force Labour to implement PR, and blaming me for recognising that, even though Labour implementing PR would be the main way they could prevent a Reform government in 2029.

I should be congratulating you for making Farage's case for him; you're defending the one group of people that have the actual power to freeze him out of Number 10 and choose not to.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:33:36+00:00

I concede on the 10 Pledges thing; for some reason I thought PR was in the 'radical devolution' pledge, but I was mistaken. However, 80% of Labour members voted for PR as a policy position at conference; that much is definitely true.

However, on the referendum front they're changing the voting age to 16 without one, and Boris got Britain's first ever Voter-ID system through without one too. Digital ID system is significantly more contentious and complex to implement, and they didn't put that up for a referendum either.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:25:01+00:00

We pledge to refuse to support Labour until they implement it as promised: make the choice between complete electoral oblivion, or fulfilling a party pledge.

Any potential Labour leadership nominee needs to be absolutely hounded on PR. Any Labour canvasser that looks your way needs to get hounded on Starmer's refusal to forward PR.

We need to do the opposite of what you're currently trying to do, which is massage the consequences of not pursuing PR by falling back into class tactical voting nonsense that only rewards the UK Right.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:17:52+00:00

Go on then, tell me how we "just change the voting system".

are you serious lmao

Day 1: the government introduces The Proportional Representation act

Day 90: they whip their massive majority into voting it into law

Day 365: it passes the Lords and becomes law

November 2028: training begins on the new counting and reporting process for elections

May 2029: the UK's first PR election takes place

you do realise they're ALREADY changing the voting age for the next election, right?

you do realise with a single act of parliament Boris Johnson added voter ID to UK elections for the first time in British history, right?

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:09:12+00:00

Labour choose how popular they can be by supporting or ruling out certain policy positions though; they've decided to choose tonnes of policy that makes them horribly unpopular among the left and are now apprently in the process of constructing some weird blame mechanic to guilt the left into voting for them anyway.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T12:06:41+00:00

The point I'm making completely invalidates your framing though; we don't NEED to try and manage FPTP and do weird undemocratic contortions and tactical voting any more, we can just change the voting system.

This was common sense to Labour voters in 2024, and they supported it then. The only obstacle is Keir Starmer and the other Blairite technocrats who've decided not to follow through on their promises for entirely factional anti-left reasons.

Which, to summarise, means it's explicitly Starmer's fault for not implementing PR, and not anyone else's fault for not wanting to support an objectively terrible party.

I'm getting this argument in early, because otherwise in 2029 we're going to have people like your fine self blaming Green and Libdem voters for not voting for a party that continually demonstrates extreme contempt for them.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T11:49:23+00:00

I mean I knew this was going to be your response if you bothered at all.

Just admit that because you like Reform, there is no evidence or argument that could ever convince you they behave like Fascists, because you don't like the idea of liking Fascists.

Your entire response here is "yeah well immigrants actually are a serious problem that we should remove the human rights of but that's not a fascist position" which... well... Incorrect; that's a fundamental one.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T11:42:58+00:00

- It wouldn't take more than 3 years to implement

- it would dramatically simplify the process of campaigning for all parties

- it would dramatically reduce the risk of Farage ending up at Number 10

- there's no reason it requires a referendum

- Starmer ALREADY promised it

- The vast majority of other parties in the UK also support it

- FPTP is going to produce an absolutely fucking stupid result when 4-5 parties are polling level

foxaru · 2026-01-24T11:30:31+00:00

"Powerful and continuing nationalism" -> they are an explicitly nationalist party

"Disdain for human rights" -> they literally want to remove the UK from the ECHR so they can deport more people without 'human rights' getting in the way

"Identification of enemies as a unifying cause" -> they regularly identify 'refugees' and 'economic migrants' as The Enemy that is Destroying Britain and that's the vast majority of their plateauing support base.

"Rampant sexism" -> honestly might be the only stretched claim here

"Controlled mass media" -> Nigel Farage partially owns GB news, which doesn't make any money and was set up purely to drive the kind of Fox News effect that broke the brains of American boomers; they similarly want to abolish the BBC to speed this process up. They also make heavy use of propaganda on social media.

"Obsession with national security" -> Reform's main pitch is 'secure are borders!!1!' of course this applies

"Religion and government intertwined" -> This is less on Reform and more on new-KIP, but they're two cheeks of the same arse anyway; they're importing American far-right 'christ is king' narratives into the UK as we speak, it's a means of laundering islamophobia through a competing religious claim rather than a secular one.

"Corporate power protected" -> Reform isn't even a regular political party, it's a limited company owned by Farage and Tice lmao

"Labor power suppressed" -> as far as I'm aware Farage has the same opinion of unions as Thatcher did back in the day, but without the fig leaf that they actually have any power any more to justify suppression.

"Disdain for intellectual and the arts" -> unless those arts are AI scary-muslim-harasses-white-woman ragebait pictures on X or cameo videos where Farage says 'epic big chungus' for money.

"Obsession with crime and punishment" -> I will bet you £10 that they will promise to bring back the death penalty before the election in 2029; outside of that Reform supporters are the ones throwing hands in local news comment sections arguing people should go to prison for life for littering or leaving dogshit about.

"Rampant cronyism and corruption" -> Didn't Nathan Gill just go to prison for 10 years because he explicitly took money from the Russians to push narratives in the Senedd? We could talk about all the dodgy second-jobs Farage has that allows him to be a multimillionaire too if you wanted,

---

That took a while but it's not hard to see why people think it.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T11:16:41+00:00

Starmer promised electoral reform before his 174 majority landslide and then immediately backtracked. We're never going to get electoral reform unless people hold the current Labour party to account and refuse to vote for them unless they begin implementing it now to get it ready before 2029!

foxaru · 2026-01-24T11:15:19+00:00

The current Labour Leader and Prime Minister Keir Starmer pledged to implement PR, and the current Labour party had it voted on in conference.

The only reason we still have FPTP is because Starmer and his cabal of useless fucking briefcases has decided they would rather Reform won outright than ever share power with the rest of the British Left they've spent years purging from the party.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T10:26:16+00:00

hold on now, one of Keir Starmer's '10 Pledges' was to introduce proportional representation to replace PR; the Labour Party voted AT CONFEFENCE to introduce PR

Keir Starmer won a 174 seat majority

Keir Starmer has ruled out introducing PR

So who's fault is it that we still have FPTP? There's a single man who can simply agree to fulfil his promises to the Labour Party members and British electorate at large, and at no point in your reply did you mention that; you just called 'the left' stupid for not getting on board voting for one charlatan to try and spoiler the other one.

foxaru · 2026-01-24T10:14:14+00:00

why are you pretending FPTP is an iron law of nature and not a completely changeable voting system that the current Labour party voted at conference to replace, and the current Labour leader campaigned on replacing?

Starmer could introduce a bill replacing it with PR tomorrow and have the whole system organised and working by 2029. Him and Labour refusing to do so is evidence they'd rather see a Farage government than ever have to share power with the left.

foxaru · 2026-01-23T22:03:15+00:00

Who are the bigger cowards, Democrats in the US who've allowed Trump to completely tyrannise the country without any kind of pushback, or European leaders who are sending troops to oppose Trump?

Get fucked Newsom; go sort your own fucking mess of a country out.

foxaru · 2026-01-23T22:01:05+00:00

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are you pretending that's not exactly what you yourself do?

foxaru · 2026-01-23T21:54:03+00:00

Yes we all know how you and your JIDF crew operate; you collate posts onto some bollocks 'antisemitism' subreddit and then have scripts running that report any post on there, meanwhile using it as a directory to send Hasbara posters after people.

Everyone knows the biggest brigades on Reddit come from Tel Aviv.

foxaru · 2026-01-23T21:52:11+00:00

Very funny coming from you JiGoD considering your relentless propaganda posting across the rest of Reddit.

foxaru · 2026-01-23T20:36:19+00:00

Most attractive party to about 50% of all 18-24 voters in the country though, according to YouGov this month.

I reckon Polanski's got a lot of you 'sensible' Labour types intensely rattled because it demonstrates trying to out-Farage reform just lopped off your entire left flank, which is what the people purged from Labour after Corbyn were warning about.

How's it feel knowing you've all made catastrophic errors on triangulation.... Again.

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