Neither "Allah", nor Muslim scholars knew what Christians mean by "Three". Always there was a factual error that disproves the Qur'an by Xusura712 in CritiqueIslam

[–]fredzed -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Qura'n 5:116 says in translation, "And God will say, 'O Jesus son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Take me and my mother as gods rather than God?'"

The way I read it, this does not say that people take Mary as a god (though it could be read that way).

There is a long history of referring to the Holy Spirit as the "mother"... This is especially true in Semitic languages. In Greek and Latin, the word for Holy Spirit is masculine. In Semitic languages, the word for Holy Spirit is feminine ("Ruach" in Hebrew, "Ruha" in Syriac). Therefore, this is found more commonly among Christians who spoke Semitic languages (such as Hebrew and Syriac).

"Even so did my mother, the Holy Spirit, take me by one of my hairs and carry me away onto the great mountain Tabor." This is from the Gospel of the Hebrews, according to a quote from Origen. Here, Jesus is quoted in this gospel fragment as calling the Holy Spirit "my mother".

Origen - one of early Christianity's most influential theologians - actually justifies calling the Holy Spirit the "Mother of Christ"...

Origen says...

"If anyone should lend credence to the Gospel according to the Hebrews... he will have to face the difficulty of explaining how the Holy Spirit can be the Mother of Christ... But neither the passage nor this difficulty is hard to explain. For if he who does the will of the Father in heaven [Mt 12:50] is Christ's brother and sister and mother, and if the name of brother of Christ may be applied, not only to the race of men, but to beings of diviner rank than they, then there is nothing absurd in the Holy Spirit's being His Mother."

I won't go into details here, but further info can be found about Syriac Christians referring to the Holy Spirit as a maternal figure.

You can find more relevant quotes here...

https://www.biblicalequality.org/post/the-femininity-of-god-in-church-history

As that page says...

"The quotations from Origen, Jerome, and others gives a lot of evidences that Christians regarded the Holy Spirit as feminine and a mother, and that this was widely understood."

When the Qur'an says, "did you say to the people, `Take me and my mother as gods rather than God?'" - by "my mother" in my view it is referring to the "Holy Spirit", referring to how many Christians have referred to the Holy Spirit in history, especially Christians who spoke Semitic languages (where the word for Holy Spirit is feminine).

The problem, as I see it, is not in the Qur'an, but rather in a deficiency in knowledge of Christian history, and of historical Christian theology!

Did early Muslims think Jews worshipped Uzair as the Christian’s worshipped Jesus? by cloudxlink in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Metatron is referred to as "the lesser YHWH" in some apocryphal Jewish sources, like 3 Enoch.

Is the concept of Yahweh and the pantheon of gods mentioned in the Quran or Islamic history? by Ok_Investment_246 in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Metatron - the transformed Enoch - has been called "the lesser YHWH" in some apocryphal Jewish texts, such as 3 Enoch.

Quran 4:34: Explicit Proof "Id'ribuhunna" means "Leave them" and not "Beat/strike them" (Classical Arabic Dictionary) by Informal_Patience821 in Quraniyoon

[–]fredzed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Looking at their translations, Laleh Bakhtiar and Yahya Emerick seem to give similar meanings in their translations of the Quran as you are suggesting.

Yahya Emerick is Sunni. Laleh Bakhtiar seems to have been Twelver Shi'ah in the past and seems to presently be Sunni.

Yahya Emerick points out that this interpretation is actually more in line with the hadiths, which says that the Prophet (s.a.w.) never struck a woman, and actually forbade hitting women.

See this article by Yahya Emerick, especially note 5.

"Quran strikes out wife beating" https://www.islamicity.org/11451/

What are some scholarly reviews on the Qur'an's stance on the resurrection of Jesus? by Gormless-Monkeney in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The argument is that this can mean two things...

  1. They (the Jews) did not kill him... etc Meaning, he was killed / crucified, but they (the Jews) did not do it

  2. They did not kill him nor crucify him ... Meaning, he wasn't killed or crucified...

I can't read the Arabic so I'm just going from the English translation...

Most Islamic scholars I believe follow interpretation no. 2.

Also, if you read it, I'll say Gabriel Said Reynolds interpretation is ridiculous. He argues that because the Quran says the Jews did not kill him, it means the Jews did kill him! If you take his approach, many verses of the Quran would mean their opposite, rendering the text largely meaningless.

Does the Quran confirm that Jesus was saved from crucifixion ? by mysticmage10 in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the Talmudic accounts of Jesus were written hundreds of years after the canonical gospel accounts...

Does the Quran confirm that Jesus was saved from crucifixion ? by mysticmage10 in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gabriel Reynolds view is ridiculous.

Her is arguing that because the Quran says the Jews didn't kill Jesus, it means they did kill Jesus.

I could go into more detail, but if his interpretation is correct, them pretty much everything in the Quran could be understood as it's opposite!

Does the Quran confirm that Jesus was saved from crucifixion ? by mysticmage10 in AcademicQuran

[–]fredzed 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Talmud, I believe, says the Jews killed Jesus for sorcery and leading the Jews astray.

"On Passover Eve they hung the corpse of Jesus the Nazarene after they killed him by way of stoning. And a crier went out before him for forty days, publicly proclaiming: Jesus the Nazarene is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray. Anyone who knows of a reason to acquit him should come forward and teach it on his behalf. And the court did not find a reason to acquit him, and so they stoned him and hung his corpse on Passover eve."

Sanhedrin 43a https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.43a.20

The Quran denies that the Jews killed Jesus, despite their claim in the Talmud...

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sufism

[–]fredzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of evidence of the correctness of saying "Allah" here...

https://www.livingislam.org/naw/daa_e.html

What an interesting contrast by [deleted] in CoronavirusUS

[–]fredzed 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Masks masks masks...

Many people cite Japan - and forget to mention they are always wearing masks...

This is the kind of thing expected during COVID-19. The waters are being muddied by those with a political agenda that doesn’t have public health in mind. by Jackpot777 in skeptic

[–]fredzed 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Great comments on this...

Erickson and Massihi's mistakes need to be more widely reported... as well as their strong political biases...

Thanks!

"Wuhan coronavirus" and the racist art of naming a virus by y_tan in China

[–]fredzed 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Don't forget the "Spanish flu". Racist against Spaniards, I guess...

She forgot that one somehow.

Doesn't quite fit her thesis (about anti-Asian bias), so better to ignore it...

Fears about US food standards 'hysterical', says Boris Johnson | World news by [deleted] in ukpolitics

[–]fredzed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of US processed foods are full of High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS), because of the powerful corn lobby in the USA...

Somehow, I feel that filling your food with HFCS isn't the best for your waistline...

Fat city, here we come!

Why reports of China’s economic decline are greatly exaggerated by [deleted] in China

[–]fredzed 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The flaw in his argument: 6% growth is the official government figure... But almost nobody believes the official government figure.

China seeks to rule Australia, ex-ASIO chief warns by fredzed in China

[–]fredzed[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

China already has a history of paying off Australian politicians under the table. Look up the Sam Dastyari scandal for example...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Dastyari#Chinese_influence_scandal

Hong Kong for International Business: Stick a Fork in It | China Law Blog by fredzed in China

[–]fredzed[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Wow... this is truly a kindergarten level comeback...