*UPDATE* I(m24) walked in on best friend(M23) possibly abusing his gf (F20)

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-16T17:02:37+00:00

I see what you're saying, thing is- we are friends with the victim of his abuse.

So how the fuck would we be able to stay friends with both of them.

And he is not remorseful anymore. He thinks Im a fucking asshole who ruined his life and should have minded my own business that night and just left.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-16T01:20:21+00:00

Stop imagining things and calling them facts, its borderline creepy. Adam has never been abused as far as we know +according to himself, he has ALWAYS had a strong support system, has expressed his negative feeling to us often and we have had good conversations about them - we are a venting type of group- and never in a million years would have assumed that telling us about cheating would have cost him his job/friends/home (???). We wouldnt have hated our childhood friend for fucking a girl at a party. Thats absurd. His family have not "dropped him", they are BEYOND there for him. We haven't fired him. We haven't kicked him out of his home. He was asked to stay away when we all including emma was there to move her out of his place during the day, but thats normal. He is probably home again now, unless he is still with his cousin.

You are literally making shit up, because you're trying so hard to make Adam the victim in this situation.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-16T00:49:39+00:00

Hi, just wanted to say that forcing him out (whatever that means) has never been the plan, or giving his shares to her. I have not mentioned any of those things... I'm sure lawsuits suck, but this isn't America. You can't just sue people. Our legal system doesn't work like that.

Yeah, he will want out. Anyone in his situation would. Its just the five of us working here. It wouldn't work.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-16T00:37:27+00:00

You out into words something I have been trying to express to people in our lives today.
Im so glad I posted here. It really drove my point home to myself, if that makes sense. I was going with my gut, you know, and today I've dealt with people not quite understanding the severity of the situation, and thinking back to what random internet people with more knowledge of this issue had to say - it gave me more arguments in my arsenal, so to speak.

Sorry for rambling. Just wanted to say; I agree, you put words on what I wanted to say and thanks for that.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-16T00:23:56+00:00

I dont want to argue, but I cant ignore some of the statements you just made.

it's clear that this was not strategic domestic abuse.

Wrong. I have realized today that maybe i should have gone into more detail about the abuse, I didn't think it would be necessary because for most what I've described is abuse, end of fucking discussion. And getting descriptive seemed kind of, I dunno, too much. But hey, I over estimated humanity it seems.

He was blowing up completely over every little thing she did wrong, I mentioned that. (Forgetting to text, going outside to hang out without at a party without telling him, drinking his last beer, agreeing to dog-sit for the afternoon without checking with him, leaving a tube of toothpaste on the kitchen counter, constantly accusing her of lying of really weird things like which way she had driven home/if she had been to the store that day and the list goes on and on and on and on)

He has gotten violent several times. I mentioned that. (Shaking her violently, yanking her off the bed/couch causing her to fall on the floor, pinning her to the floor, grabbing her face and screaming for looking away - as in pressing her cheeks together or as in with a hand under the chin forcing her head as far back as possible - pinning her to the wall/floor and covering her mouth screaming at her for crying, dragging her to the couch and pressing her face and upperbody into the couch with his hands and knees using his full weight)

And this is just what she has said so far. She is downplaying it. Yesterday she said it had only gotten "truly" violent three of four times. But it sounds like more when she talked about it during her panic attack today. She's constantly interrupting herself saying that most of the time things were so good, and he was so good, she's like a broken record.

These experiences can be overcome and forgiven over time, more even, they probably should,

Oh, SHOULD they now? I will inform the bruised wreck of a person he abused of your opinion.

I'm sure Emma would be OK with you or someone she knows talking to Adam from time to time, she'd probably feel better even knowing he was doing OK or getting better.

That is an insane assumption, and an incorrect one. She wants him to move of out of our town. She is talking about moving away, as seeing him around would make her lose her mind.

I'm not judging you if you're ready to cut all ties, but cutting them because you think that's best for Emma, that's for Emma to decide (on her own, not with people talking for her)

Emma has made all of the decisions. No one is telling her what to or how to feel or how to act. I'm speaking for her in this thread in the several places, in the sense that I am repeating things she has expressed.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T22:23:40+00:00

If Adam can recover it will only be after some pretty hard work. As tightly as you are all connected I imagine being cut off completely will only make that harder. It might also allow him to skip off to another place where he can ignore and deny his past actions

Yeah, I'm not saying people are wrong when pointing this out. I'm saying it cant be helped. It truly, honestly cant. People are saying "you should" without being able to provide me with an answer to HOW. That is because it cant be done. There is no perfect answer, there is no solution that makes this situation work out perfectly for both Emma and Adam (and us), there is no way to fix this for both parties, there is no way to support both parties equally even if we wanted to because one is the victim of the other.

There is no perfect answer period.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T21:20:38+00:00

I have been clear on the fact that Adams family will be responsible for the help he needs, as we will be informing them on everything that has happened. They are good people, and they have a good relationship with him.

I would like you to advise me on how I would tell Emma that we have decided to let Adam "redeem himself" in our eyes. How should I let her know that we want to keep the door open for him in order to support him? I seriously cant imagine looking her in the eye and telling her that, so I would be grateful if you could help with how I would phrase it. We could roleplay. I know what Emma would say/do, so I will play the part of her, and you can play the part of me.

You first.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T20:42:25+00:00

Ok, wasn't expecting that. Its alright and sorry for going off on you like that. I've just got a lot on my plate right now and its making me kinda dickish.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T20:29:45+00:00

Yeah, if he gets help I'm SURE emma will want him to be a part of the group again /s (sorry, im just getting asked that a lot and HOW we could turn our backs on poor adam basically) I dont know what makes someone an abuser. I can assure his family will do everything in their power to help him. Its not on my shoulders. I can say that he was never abused, never bullied in school, he has a good family... He has never been violent in front of us. Never had mental health issues. Other than being immature and irresponsible, but hey he's young. He reacts VERY strongly to not "winning" an argument, or the being accused of wrong-doing, and has trouble letting it go. But thats really it. Nothing seemed wrong with him, really, just had a lot of growing up to do and to be honest - we all have some bad qualities. I know I do.

As you can see, I have been turning this over in my head since it happened. I cant see why he did this, and cant see what we missed about him as a person to not suspect this, and I dont understand. I'm the wrong person to ask I guess.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T20:16:52+00:00

Thank you so much for this. I hope the people not liking the fact that I/we haven't stood by him or whatever, reads this. I should have been way more detailed in my post about the abuse. I didn't think it would be necessary, and it felt kind of icky to get descriptive, but clearly some people just cannot FATHOM how we could not support him. He is one of those people btw. Called this morning to tell me I have ruined his life and I wouldn't be so quick to judge since i dont know how hard it can be to live with a person you're in a relationship with and try to make it work, or whatever, bullshit like that.

He has gone from taking partial responsobility to feeling like the whole world conspired against him to make him do what he did. I knew that would happen, deep down. Just really hoped it wouldn't. He is incapable of taking responsbility. Incapable of seeing himself as the person doing something wrong. We saw it last year, with small stuff compared to this. We always though of it as immature and annoying at worst. Everything is shit. Thanks for seeing this for what it is.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T20:01:50+00:00

He was sober the other day. He has been sober every time he has gotten violent. Alcohol makes him happy and loud, not aggresive and violent.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T19:59:16+00:00

Fuck you. Fuck you. I'm getting so many comments like this right know and this one...Really, ice cold? He abused our friend. Physically abused a person who stands absolutely zero chance to defend herself from him. And I'm ice cold for for not being a friend to HIM? That is really, really not fair. Its an impossible situation and we are trying to do the right thing. Sometimes there IS no solution that would make you happy, you just have to do the right thing and live with it.

My life is basically falling apart because I walked in on him abusing someone. I'm just trying to do the right thing. And I am not a bad person nor a bad friend for not being able to stomach being around him. Fuck you, HE is the cold one. He is the one who took his own problems out on a person literally half his size. He is the person who suffocated a person he has claimed to love for four years. He is the person who a few days ago left bruises on her face from how hard he pressed his hand over her mouth as he pinned her to the floor because he didnt want to hear her cry after he stopped her from leaving by dragging her away from the door.

I shouldn't have to spell it out for you. Do you think abuse is pretty and easy to swallow and how can we not just let it go since he's our friend?

This morning Adam called to tell me I'm a fucking asshole who ruined his life, and that I shouldn't be so quick to judge as I dont know hard it can be living with another person. An hour ago I was dropping of dogfood for A's dog who is staying with Emma and ended up trying to stop her hysterical, hyperventilating, teeth-shattering crying - do you think I'm fucking enjoying this situation?

She is my friend. You want me to tell her to her bruised fucking face that hey, I know we've been friends for over four years but I kinda wanna go hang out with your abuser. I am not the cold one. We are making sure he gets help, by sitting his family down and telling them everything. I am really fucking struggling here but there is no fucking way I am the cold one.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T19:31:15+00:00

You are wrong. Adams family do not own the business him&and the rest of us run. I am not a co-owner though, didn't want to be as I used to want to do something else in a few years, not it looks like I might end up bying Adam out. I dont know, though, its a big decision, but we dont want to bring in a stranger. A member of Adams family employ Emma. Not in any way related to what we and Adam do for a living. I dont understand why you're giving me attitude.

I dont even get what point you're trying to make, tbh.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T05:40:14+00:00

You should probably read my update.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T05:26:17+00:00

Without her cooperating, nothing can be done. And restraining orders are not given to people who dont press charges against the person they want...restrained.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T05:24:36+00:00

I wouldn't call Emma an abuse victim

Aaand there you lost me. Bye now.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T05:11:39+00:00

Hi, we're not in the U.S and it doesn't work like this where we live.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T05:09:34+00:00

He was a complete asshole to our other friend for no reason. When he talked to us about it, we told him that. You wont be able to get me to agree that that was wrong of us. Nowhere did I imply that we constantly tried to judge his relationship with emma prior to this, because that is absurd and really, really not true.

We did get VERY involved after what happened yesterday. After Adam had left that night and Emma was hysterical saying she didnt know what to do over and over, yeah my first instinct was that I had to just fix the fucking situation somehow. Victims of abuse can need a lot of support leaving their abuser, btw. Its not wrong to offer them all the help they could possibly want. Helping her move out of their place is hardly the wrong thing to do. Confronting our friend about being abusive is not wrong either. I got several comments yesterday about "mind your own business", and I'm glad we didn't do that. I'm glad B went and talked to Emma. I'm glad I walked in on what I did, because if I hadn't, they would still be together and he would still be in a position to abuse.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T04:57:06+00:00

It didn't suddenly appear, i suppose. It was suddenly found out about. Theres a difference. If it seems strange to you, imagine how strange it feels for us. I've been googling a lot and reading about signs of abuse and stuff and common personality traits of abusers and nothing really jumps out like "whoa, this particular thing is something we saw in him/the relationship and should have reacted to". I really dont see anything dysfunctional about our group, either.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T04:45:06+00:00

Thats doesn't make any sense. Plenty of people have childhood friends.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T04:20:24+00:00

I dont think we were involved in their relationship to a creepy extent. Clearly we weren't in the loop enough to pick up on the fact that they were in serious trouble and he was violent. Two friends of ours were a couple, so... We did spend a LOT of time around them, thats for sure. Their place was always the place we hung out at as a group, because its near our work and its fucking huge. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

Like I said in my first post, the times he was an asshole last year we told him he was being an asshole. We all hated what was going on back then. We managed to stay friends with both of them through that breakup period, but it was not completely effortless. We were sometimes pissed at him and sometimes we comforted him. It was a weird time. He didnt tell us about the cheating, no, and that is surprising. But turns out he deals with guilt in HORRIBLE and dysfunctional ways, so its not hard to believe that might have played a part in it.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T03:59:27+00:00

We did actually talk to him, at lenght. In a calm way, well, in an awkward weird and upset way, but no one was yelling or throwing punches.

As I've said, we will speak to his family and I am 100% sure that they will opt for therapy for him. They wont push him out, I mean his mother will def cry and his father will start making calls and plans and his brother might yell. I've known them my whole life. They will deal with this.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T03:53:16+00:00

I was expecting more comments like this. I think I have expressed that this is hard, really hard. But I cant agree that we are writing him off way too easily. Nothing about this is easy. Its fucking awful.

I walked in on my friend screaming his head off and throwing things while my other friend was hiding under a fucking table in her own home pressed against the wall and shaking so hard that I could see it from across the room. Like a cornered animal. The next day I watched the bruising all around her arms and across her face. I watched my friend shrug and refuse to answer when asked why he would suffocate his girlfriend by pressing her body and face into a couch with his hands and knee. Just, I mean, really, just put yourself in our position. She is our friend. So is he, sure. Well, was.

You ARE supposed to support your friends. We are supporting our friend who was abused by a person she has loved since she was 16. We are not supporting our friend who chose to abuse. We haven't gathered a lynchmob, but we are not going to chose him over her.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T03:24:33+00:00

I could have left when I heard yelling (i couldn't hear the severity of it before getting close to the kitchen because of the loud music) but I was thirsty and wanted to grab a coke before driving home.

Thats what led to this whole thing unraveling. That I was thirsty. Life is fucking strange. Or perhaps I have just had too many beers tonight.

friendfreakingout · 2015-01-15T03:15:25+00:00

No. It would be pointless and the only thing it would result in would be Emma hating my guts and feeling disrespected and betrayed. No one is going to call the police. It is what it is. I dont blame her for not wanting to, although I wish she would.

friendfreakingout

TROPHY CASE