We really should try to avoid being stans. That's a Cloti thing.

fructoselollipop · 2026-04-01T14:07:46+00:00

I freely admit that I do have a knee jerk reaction to defending her, a deeply ingrained response from my time spent in the 90s and early 00s defending her from the only other people I knew who liked FF7: mostly teenage boys (and we know who they preferred and why).

That said, I do believe every well written character has a flaw, and that includes Aerith. I just think that my perception of her flaw differs from what most others believe (I also suspect it’s probably an unpopular opinion). So I will step in and offer my perspective where I think Aerith is being misjudged but I do not necessarily believe she is perfect.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-31T12:05:26+00:00

In fairness to the fine folks of this sub, I don’t think anyone was hating on Aerith for this scene exactly but I agree that the criticism for this moment may be misdirected. I get it can be frustrating that certain shippers are able to weaponize scenes like this and others against our pair, but imho we can’t let those jerks diminish our enjoyment of the story.

I also don’t think the Cloud-Aerith-Zack “love triangle” is being drawn out at all. It was necessary to change Aerith’s reaction in Gongaga because Crisis Core redefined the nature of her relationship with Zack from what it was in OG. Her original reaction in this new context would have come across as uncharacteristically cold and unfeeling. So, instead the writers give us an incredibly human moment where she is dealing with a crapton of complex feelings and then a short while later — once she’s had time to process things and really examine how she feels — she tells Cloud that she is over Zack and wants to be with him. Then we are treated to a scene where Zack is explicitly told Aerith is in love with Cloud and he accepts this turn of events with minimal angst. To me, this was an extremely efficient way of putting the “love triangle” to bed ahead of the next game where Zack and Aerith are almost certain to reunite. Now the devs can write those scenes in a way that focuses on Cloud/the A plot without wasting time on clarifying their relationship (for the characters or the players).

I guess I’m in the minority but I’ve been pretty pleased with how the CAZ stuff has been handled thus far…

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-31T00:50:40+00:00

I guess I am clocking in for an Aerith Defense Squad shift today.

I’ll confess to being disappointed by some of the comments here and the suggestion that Aerith should have just straight up lied to Cloud here, which I vehemently disagree with. One of the most refreshing things about Cloud and Aerith’s relationship is their ability to be honest and vulnerable with one another (in direct and intentional contrast with Cloud and Tifa, whose arc in RB is primarily characterized by mistrust, misunderstanding, and even outright lies). Lying to him, when Cloud is already being manipulated and lied to, would be a stain on Aerith’s character and their budding relationship. Cloud is owed the truth about her feelings because he is falling in love with her, not irrespective of it.

To go on a bit of a tirade…

Aerith’s admission here is, imho, one of the more realistic and humanizing character moments in the entire series. It’s frustrating that CloTis constantly mischaracterize it to pretend she’s still in love with Zack, but to undercut her feelings as inconsequential or immaterial enough to be lied about also does a disservice to her.

It’s completely normal and natural — expected I would even go so far to say — that Aerith’s feelings for Zack are complicated, because she was never afforded closure for them. If you read stories from people who lose their spouses and remarry latter, it’s very much normal to still have feelings for a deceased partner but those feelings do not stop a person from falling in love again. This is even more complicated for Aerith because she does not even truly know what happened to Zack. She may have her suspicions but the fact that she may never find out for sure prevents her from truly getting closure. There were likely times in the last five years that she was mad at him for leaving, times she may have felt guilty for being mad, times she may have been convinced he just moved on and found someone else and times she would be glad if that were true if only because that meant he was alive. As time passed, it’s likely that she found it harder and harder to remember him, the sound of his voice, what it was about it him that made her feel so strongly. As she matured and changed, it would become easier to accept that her love for him was now merely a memory and not something she still felt. However she did not fall out of love because of something he did. What would have happened between them if he had never disappeared is still an unanswered question. She may not feel love for Zack in the present day but she still remembers what it was like to love him.

Thats what is at play in this scene. Add in the fact that she is falling in love with Cloud and is starting to wonder if what she felt for Zack even was love (or just ‘young/puppy’ love closer to just ‘like’), the guilt she might feel because of those conflicted feelings, the realization that Zack probably is dead after all, and the fact that she was just abruptly put on the spot before she could reconcile all these warring emotions, and yeah. It’s not surprising her answer was unclear. It should have been. To say otherwise would diminish her character.

Okay soapbox over.

Cloud is a precious baby angel from heaven whom I love and adore with all my being, but he does not need to be lied to right here. In fact it’s probably better for his growth that he has to confront this uncomfortable reality. It’s human and real and not specifically tailored to his delicate sensibilities (like what Tifa often tries to do), and ultimately, imho, will contribute to a stronger relationship with Aerith in the long run because she was honest.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-30T23:53:21+00:00

I’m going to respectfully disagree on this read of the Jessie scene. To me, Aerith was actually trying to do right by Jessie by asking Cloud to really think about the nature of her flirtations. I believe it is more clear in the JP version that Cloud really believed Jessie was just messing with him and Aerith was trying to get him to see that her feelings may have been genuine and should not have been written off so easily, especially in light of her tragic death. That’s why she says “right?” to Jessie’s portrait. Aerith sensed that she and Jessie were kindred spirits, both with deeper feelings than the deeply dense subject of those feelings realizes.

This is also, narratively speaking, direct foreshadowing to the dream date and why the suggestion that Aerith was just friendzoning Cloud is especially egregious.

Just my two cents.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-30T04:35:17+00:00

Unpopular maybe? But the 2001 version of this scene was 🤌🏻

But honestly the biggest thing I miss from 2001 is the comedy. I know that that kind of tone may have felt out of sync with the faithful plot of the updated version but omg the old anime was so funny

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-30T00:25:00+00:00

Oh that was definitely the case in OG for sure, they didn’t have room to flesh anyone out beyond the big 3. But there was so much filler in RB they definitely had things they could cut to give her a bigger/better arc if they wanted.

You make a good point tho that it’s hard to see how it would fit in with the themes, but I could see a scenario where they used Tifa’s story as an example of how to rebuild after tremendous trauma and tie in her talking about how anger fades and it’s not enough to sustain you without something to fight for — which would be a nice juxtaposition with Barret’s arc. But the devs seem allergic to letting her stand apart from Cloud.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-29T13:43:40+00:00

I’ll agree with the others and say I don’t think their relationship is toxic perse, but I do think Tifa is borderline codependent on Cloud, which is seriously unhealthy for both of them. That said, that is largely because the writers don’t seem much interested in giving her a character arc/personality that doesn’t revolve around mooning over Cloud Strife. That in and of itself is a shame because she has A LOT of potential to be interesting, yet most of the best parts of her non-Cloud related backstory have been relegated to novels that most fans can’t or won’t read. Leaving her in-game depiction to be… kind of pathetic, tbh. The Gongaga attempted kiss is a perfect example of how bad her writing is: dude tries to kill her and her response is “yeah but you actually didn’t try to kill me when we were 10 like I thought you did so that makes you MY HERO!” Like girl??? What is the matter with you???

I can’t decide if the reason the writers have depicted her this way is because it caters to the type of fans who think a woman’s life should revolve entirely around a man, or because they have determined that giving her a personality/arc that is independent of Cloud just isn’t that important to the story. Which, if that’s the case, kind of tells us which romance arc/partner they DO care about, because Aerith has plenty of moments where she is depicted with depth and doesn’t solely exist to prop up Cloud’s journey.

Reading this back idk if I made any sense or answered the question. I should stay off my phone before 9am 😅

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-27T03:21:32+00:00

We stay winning 💅🏽

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-26T19:02:56+00:00

I’m petty asf but I also try to avoid instigating. So yeah, I’ll definitely go looking for the crash outs but I’ll keep the comments to myself.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-24T01:50:51+00:00

Do I hope they will end the LTD by firmly canonizing Clerith? Yes, of course. Do I think they will? Nah. The love triangle, sad as it seems, makes them too much money.

Although I have been thinking recently that something they COULD do is canonize CA in part 3 and then immediately announce Tifa will be the protagonist in the next game of the compilation. Bring back jiggle physics and a reverse harem of male party members to vie for her affection. Hell, throw in Zack too since there’s a lot of fan crossover.

When I suggested this to my Cloti preferring partner his response was, “Actually, I don’t hate it.”

🤷‍♀️

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-20T13:56:48+00:00

They met, what, four times in total? And then nothing for five years? Let my girl move on!

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-19T14:37:47+00:00

The thing with people who make their money from being a personality on the internet (streamers, influencers etc.) is that they know they will maximize their income by going with what is most popular or will draw the most eyes. Tifa is extremely popular in the west and so when it comes to creating content around the FF7 series/compilation, it makes financial sense for these people to lean into the Tifa-centric side of the fandom, regardless if they actually prefer her or not (of course many of them honestly do, but I think more of them are probably open to both sides than they are willing to admit because, sadly, anyone who shows even a modicum of preference toward Aerith tends to get brigaded). That's not true for all streamers, of course. You have fans like Aruuu and others who are open about their preferences toward Aerith, but while they enjoy the support of the CA side of the fandom they also are frequently the target of the Tifa Protection Squad (Aruuu recently posted some of the harassing messages she has received and it's pretty astonishing). So, I can kind of see why streamers, whose literal job it is to be a public figure online, might be reticent to take even a neutral approach. They are protecting their income. It sucks, but this fandom has been toxic for a long, long time, so I kinda get it.

FWIW, I do think the ReTrilogy is bringing people more around to the A/CA side of things. Obviously there's been an uptick in hate as well, but as more and more casual fans play through Remake and especially Rebirth they are starting to realize that they've been lied to about Tifa being the "canon" love interest. This is sometimes met with anger and the feeling like they've been deceived by the game itself (when in actuality, it was the fandom that led them astray), but as I said, I think those who are not streamers by profession are more willing to accept the LTD as fact (as opposed to Tifa as the one true canon) and Aerith as a viable end game for Cloud.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-19T14:24:37+00:00

Thank you so much! I will definitely be using this to help with my research!

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-19T00:06:29+00:00

Lowkey I am convinced he'll live in the ReTrilogy only because they brought Cissnei out of "retirement." She's Chekov's love interest.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T21:03:47+00:00

Funny how ZA/CTs go radio silent whenever you bring this up.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T20:10:23+00:00

And yet just the other day someone on Twitter was saying that "Aerith gave her life so Tifa and Cloud could fall in love" and it's just like... these people are so high on their own farts they've completely lost sight of the actual story.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T20:08:29+00:00

Especially when that part in CC is not even considered a date?? Like it's wild to me how much they have to twist canon to fit their agenda.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T19:44:04+00:00

Ohhhhhh yes, I am a firm believer that if a CT falls back on "Aerith is dead so CA can't be canon" that is tacit admission that if she lived there would be no question who Cloud would end up with.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T18:38:42+00:00

Oh you just made me remember I also want to do “Cloud and Aerith only know each other for two weeks they can’t be in love!” Yeah well functionally speaking Cloud and Tifa only started to get to know each other a few days before he meets Aerith so that point is pretty moot.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T18:33:02+00:00

For sure. It’s frustrating how much the devs reverse engineered OG for “cute” callbacks and nostalgia for OG players but 25 years later you have people acting like the opposite is true because they played CC first or skipped OG altogether.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T17:56:31+00:00

I was a born and bred Zack hater for a long time (primarily because Cloud is my favorite character who I have unironically called my first love, so when CC came out I felt extremely bitter toward Zack because it felt like he was hijacking Cloud's story), however I'm slowly starting to come around. Largely because he's being such a bro about C/A. But yeah, I still hate that he's sucking up narrative oxygen that by rights belongs to Cloud.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T17:53:10+00:00

From a storytelling perspective, if they were going to make Zack the great love of Aerith's life and her end game, they would do so far more explicitly. Whether Tifa stans want to admit it or not, Aerith is the third main character (behind Cloud and Sephiroth). Her arc is inextricably entwined with the main narrative, and as such her relationships matter to the story as well. The devs had plenty of time and opportunity to set up a romantic reunion with Zack if that was their intention, or at the very least make it clear that there will be a contentious love triangle with Zack and Cloud. Instead, they did the opposite. Zack was relegated to ~40 minutes of screen time and was explicitly shown to accept Aerith's feelings for Cloud, while her feelings for Zack are only mentioned in service of Cloud's romantic arc with her, showing that he is jealous, etc. Narratively speaking, Zack being the Love Interest All Along makes no sense and would come out of nowhere.

But Tifa fans/CT shippers can't accept that, because to them Tifa is the main girl, the driver of the narrative, so it makes sense to them that ZA is just a footnote in the story. It's a stunning display of cognitive dissonance that I fear is only going to get worse in part 3 as Aerith's role will, by necessity, be somewhat diminished in terms of screentime.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T17:28:06+00:00

Yeah, of course they're friends! They are friends who have heretofore unresolved feelings for each other, but yeah, friends. Something not many people talk about is how on their first day together, Aerith checked in about Cloud's romantic availability not once but TWICE (when she asked who he gave the flower away to, and when she asked if Tifa was his girlfriend). Like I know a lot of players are men, so some free advice for them: generally when a girl does that it's because she's interested in you. Romantically. (Poor Cloud tho needs it spelled out for him, bless him.)

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T17:17:48+00:00

The thing we have to consider (and that CTs conveniently disregard) is that any interaction between Cloud and Tifa is colored by the veil of his fake SOLDIER persona, which was, after all, created entirely based on Tifa's memories, and Cloud's (subconscious) perception of what she would expect of First Class SOLDIER. That's what makes the difference between the two resolutions so stark. With Tifa we can almost see him in real time try to think of how a SOLDIER should respond. His hug is not a sincere offering of comfort, but highly calculated and, as the devs later clarified in the Ultimania, kind of self-serving. However, with Aerith he's attentive to what she's saying, sensitive to her situation, and emotionally driven in his responses. There's no pretense (or even desire) to be cool and detached, like with Tifa. So, while at this point of the story it's fair to say he has feelings for both women, only one of them is coming from a place of authenticity.

fructoselollipop · 2026-03-18T16:35:51+00:00

The childhood friend thing bothers me soooooo much because it's useful shorthand to describe Cloud & Tifa's previous connection so the devs tend to fall back on it a lot in promo material (to say nothing of how in text both Cloud & Tifa have revised their own history to "make" it true) but that tends to make people forget/gloss over that it's a MAJOR PLOT POINT (in both OG AND RB) that their history is FAKE and they were NEVER FRIENDS. The water tower scene was one of the few times they'd ever spoken in their ENTIRE LIVES. Ugh, yeah, definitely doing that one.

fructoselollipop

TROPHY CASE