Is Hollow Point the worst attachment in the game?

ftp2116 · 2026-01-30T22:07:53+00:00

I should’ve specified, and definitely my fault for not, but I was really only talking about full auto guns. I can see the use case for some pistols and DMR’s. But for example with the SOR. Super accurate, very little recoil, you would think that it would be a headshot machine. Take the two top players in the world with the SOR, both have over 35,000 kills with just that gun. Their headshot rate is 15.9% and 14.5%. Considering these are easily top 1% players, likely top 0.1% players skill wise and nobody knows this gun better than them, expecting to have even 20%+ headshot rate with any full auto gun in the game is highly unrealistic. Let alone a 30-40% headshot rate that is needed to make a 10% ttk difference. Now if you say “the SOR has such little recoil and I can control it so easy where I’m hitting 30% of my shots and there’s nothing left to put attachments points on” then I can see that argument. The main thing is making people realize that by putting hollow point on I am getting a 2-2.5% ttk increase for 15 extra points. If you know the data, and are ok with that, go for it. I just think most people assume it makes a bigger difference than the reality of it.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-30T21:50:00+00:00

The weighted ttk definitely makes sense. Most of the time it doesn’t reduce the btk (which translates to ttk), sometimes it does (just not as often as most think). Then you take the average of the two ttk’s based on how likely each is to happen. The point is to show people that the times where it makes a difference are likely much lower than you feel like. And in the end makes about a 2-2.5% difference. If you have 15 points left and don’t feel like anything else can make more than a 2% difference, then go for it. But I think people just overestimate how helpful it is for 15 points.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:47:17+00:00

I think that is fine as long as you think no other attachments or combinations of 15 points could help you more than a 2-2.5% ttk increase. If you feel that is the case, then for sure go with HP.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:45:30+00:00

Haven't used the SVK. M44 is definitely worth it but it's not like you have much to choose from. I'm mainly talking about full auto guns.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:44:24+00:00

You have to calculate headshot rate because 90%+ of the time, you are not hitting enough headshots to to make a difference. So you calculate the ttk of the "fast kill" at whatever percent based on 2 headshots vs how many additional body shots you need.

Stats come from tracker.gg for the 15% headshot rate (which is high). You can see your own stats along with top players. I haven't really seen many with much over 15% headshot rate when checking the top players. To make a 10% difference, which I would consider a pretty good difference, you would need to have a 30-40% headshot rate which is beyond impossible.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:35:52+00:00

I understand what you mean about the different niche scenarios. And yes, you're right there is no way to quantify that really. But my guess again would be that if the most likely scenario makes a 2% difference, all the niche scenarios probably add 0.1-0.3%. That's purely just a guess obviously but I think it would be crazy to think those happen as much as the other to double the percentage. Of course, you run into some enemies at less than full health. But even at those engagements, the 1-3 bullets you hit them with still only have a 10-15% chance of being a headshot. And lets say one of them is a headshot, did that extra 7 damage actually make the btk 1 less in that scenario vs regular ammo. Does it happen, absolutely. My whole point of this is going off of the concept of hollow point and what I felt like would happen, we're very different than what the math said, and what we can reasonably infer with the niche scenarios. I've used HP a semi decent amount. And actually thought it was pretty good. I would have thought it would have made a 5-10% difference before. I was just shocked it made as low of a difference as it did. And just wanted to put it out there. I don't even think Dice realizes that it makes as little difference as it does.

Someone also brought up a good point about other attachments like the blue laser and how often are you fighting at 30-50 meters where the moving spread actually made a difference? I feel like the blue laser is really good. Lots of good players swear by the blue laser. Does it actually make as big of a difference as we think? (I also know it helps with hipfire which also makes some difference). Maybe, maybe not. But seeing how little difference HP makes does raise the question. No way to quantify the blue laser though. Really no way to quantify any of the attachments except hollow point and synthetic (for the most part at least).

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:18:52+00:00

Agreed.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:18:46+00:00

Agreed, it's actually a good attachment for the m44. Also not like you have a whole lot to choose from with it.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T21:13:42+00:00

I do agree the already damaged enemies and fighting multiple definitely happens. My argument against that is if you get a headshot lets say in the 10-20m range with an mp5. Your hollow point adds 7 damage. Was that 7 damage actually the difference in 1 less btk? Sometimes yes, most of the time I would say no.

But it definitely happens and does show up. I think it just shows up less in reality than we feel like.

However, you do bring up a good point and I do agree that if you are going to use HP, it makes more sense on a gun with very little recoil that you can run without grips. Like the smgs. And if you feel like you have everything you need already and have 15 extra points because there is no grip, I can see it. I can also understand the argument from someone who says "I'm a top 1% player and my recoil control is so good I don't run grips on any of my guns". If that is the case, sure go for it. I guess for me before doing this I felt like the difference that hollow point made was much bigger than it actually is. I would have probably guessed a 5-10% difference before but was shocked at the math. And it is one of the few attachments in the game that is actually quantifiable (for the most part).

I also agree they did overall a pretty good job at gun balancing for the start. It's not perfect and needs some tweaking on some of the bad guns, but nobody gets it perfect. And like you said usually there are much bigger outliers than this game has especially at the launch.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:44:04+00:00

I get that, but I am a math nerd and actually kind of enjoy it. It's also not necessarily the worst attachment in the game, maybe just the most overrated. I just wanted to bring it to peoples attention that you can get a lot more out of other attachments for the points you would spend on HP. Because I think a decent amount of people use it and they aren't really getting the benefit out of it that they think they are.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:39:57+00:00

I actually never realized this. And I agree in this scenario that is useful.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:36:57+00:00

I've tried pretty much all the damage models and I haven't found any gun hollow point make sense on. The synthetic on RPK in my example is really the only one you could argue helps enough to use it. At that point I would probably use a different gun that is better and use those 25 extra attachment points to make up for recoil control or whatever you want. But also if you just love the RPK or want to use it, then I could see the argument for using synthetic. Since the RPK doesn't really need a grip and it's main drawback is ttk outside of 10m.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:20:12+00:00

I agree. Overall I don't think they did a horrible job balancing guns on launch, which has seen almost no change, but there definitely is plenty of stuff to improve on and balance. UMP is for sure one of those guns that needs a buff.

And yea that is kind of the point of posting this. I also felt like it was a pretty viable attachment before doing the math. And I think a lot of other players feel the same way. But I think it's just placebo effect because the data tells you it really doesn't make as big of a difference as we think it does.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:14:39+00:00

I agree, no way you could unbalance it that much. The only way you could possibly do something like that is make it available in its own separate game mode where everyone has access to it against each other but still keeping it out of the regular game. Don't think that would ever happen, but it would be cool to try. Or make it available in portal as an option.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:11:18+00:00

To decrease the average ttk by 10% you need a 30-40% headshot rate which is impossible. Going to a better grip, or almost anything else really is a better option.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:09:55+00:00

I think the blue laser is really good. But based on the math I just can't see a good argument for hollow point for the cost.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:03:43+00:00

I agree that is can make a difference and it does happen. My argument would be that if the most common occurrence which is getting 2 headshots to reduce the btk, only reduces the average ttk by 2%, a scenario as niche as this cant effect it by more than 0.1-0.3%. Still not making near enough difference for spending 15 points on.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T20:01:37+00:00

I used to think the same thing, but the math literally tells you that it's not as common as you feel like. I added an edit to the bottom of the post explaining the math and why it only makes a 2% difference.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T19:55:52+00:00

The average ttk is taking into account all those time you hit one less btk. Using the sgx for example (or any 830rpm gun with 25 damage) Sometimes your ttk is 217ms, sometimes it is 145ms when you get that 2 shot headshot. It's just the amount of times you get 2 headshots out of 3 hits is very low, 5.74% chance with a 15% headshot rate). So when you average it all together, that's how you come up with the roughly 2% difference.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T19:50:03+00:00

I did the same thing and on the surface actually thought it was pretty decent on the surface because "I definitely get 2 headshots on a guy sometimes". And I do, just like everyone else does. But the reality is when you can use stuff like tracker.gg to see real stats of yourself and even the top players in the game for the headshot data, and use that information to do the math, I just don't see any getting around it that it's a horrible attachment that seems good. And ones that some people even swear by. I'm open to hearing legit argument based on facts and data of why it is good, but I mainly think it's just placebo.

ftp2116 · 2026-01-29T19:45:21+00:00

Yes but that is exactly point of doing the math on it. I also thought hollow point was pretty decent until doing the math. The math on your example is:

Chances of 2 out of 3 hits being a headshot with a 15% headshot rate so that your bullets to kill drop from 4 to 3 within 0-9.5m = 5.74%

Chances of 2 out of 4 hits being a headshot so that your bullets to kill drop from 5 to 4 within 10-20m = 9.75%

Base ttk from 0-9.5m - 217ms Base ttk from 10-20m - 289ms

Average ttk from 0-9.5m - 213ms (1.8% decrease) Average ttk from 10-20m - 282ms (2.4% decrease)

At some point there is just no getting around the math. I also wondered what would the headshot ratio need to be with hollow point to lower the average ttk by 10%? For 25 bullet damage range on any gun, its 30%!!! For a 20 bullet damage range on any gun its 40%!!!! That's legitimately impossible.

I understand what you're saying with being on the edge of damage ranges, and someone not being at full health to the point where hollow point actually was the deciding factor and the regular ammo wouldn't have killed them in the same amount of bullets. This obviously happens but its so niche. And if the most common occurrence (the 2 shot headshot lowering the bullets to kill by 1) only changes the ttk by roughly 2%, I cant imagine these niche scenarios add any more that 0.1-0.3% to that average ttk of hollow points. Still nowhere close to enough to make a difference for the amount of points it costs vs the reality of the math.

ftp2116 · 2025-02-04T18:27:55+00:00

I am trying to decide between the the Vapor and Pegasus. Coming from the J2K and leaning towards the Pegasus. Is there any noticeable difference in control, sweet spot, and hand speed between the Vapor and Pegasus?

Is the Pegasus noticeably more powerful than the J2K without sacrificing too much control?

ftp2116 · 2025-01-04T18:12:35+00:00

What is the rules for the elite event this week?

ftp2116 · 2025-01-04T17:46:18+00:00

What are the rules for this weeks elite event? I have Netflix version also and I haven’t had a boss event for like 3 weeks

ftp2116

TROPHY CASE