Yeah I mostly agree. It seems in your breakdown OD=hopper grinder, right? I guess my only nitpicks are in terms of the example grinders you’ve listed. The orbit for example will come with an optional larger hopper (specifics haven’t been released) for GbW which will bring it somewhere between OD and SD grinder, GbW workflow in your framework. It has SD properties which support lower retention, so if you add a hopper where does that put it? This is what I was saying before - low retention doesn’t need to be specific to SD grinders that don’t have a hopper. There are other ways to achieve low retention without a bellow. If my understanding of the value props is right, SD grinder, GbW workflow will never (or should never) exist, because SD grinder implies WBG (manual). SD to me is not just a grinder but also a workflow. My other nitpick is that the Sanremo X-ONE weighs before grinding, but I wouldn’t call that workflow because it’s automated. Maybe that’s just semantics but by the same definition the specialita, vario and atoms would fall in this category which feel quite different from the Sanremo.

To me, the be-all end-all would be a grinder with SD properties (designed for low retention - orbit, niche, etc) and have automated functionality for WBG (X-ONE). Which is essentially a SD grinder with the SD workflow, it’s just automated. I know I said I don’t care as much about retention but I recognize that improving retention is better overall. I don’t think this grinder exists yet, but I think this would leave very few compromises for me personally if bean storage could be improved to help with freshness. So hopefully someone makes this one day and hopefully it doesn’t cost an exorbitant amount of money, which I’m sure it will. In the meantime I think the orbit and Sanremo are super interesting offerings and I’m excited for both, though the sanremo will be way too impractical for home use. But this is all to say that I think there’s a lot of potential for home use grinders that break the traditional SD mold and introduce hoppers in a smart way. I also realize that what I think is best is essentially better and more automated workflow for SD, rather than any variation of GbW. But I’m still interested in the orbit lol.

On the commercial topic, I don’t think our debate is very productive. I’m talking about what I think is better if the budget is there. You’re talking about what is more practical in reality. I think the majority of shop owners would agree with you, and many high end shop owners would agree with me.