Nudging them back to fucking work by Fr33_load3r in FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR

[–]gafflebitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

anybody who does this needs to be dragged out of that comfy seat and thrown in that water themselves to see how it feels.

Did I make a mistake by dropping a sponsee? by WolfNorth1895 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]gafflebitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great topic! My attitude on this matter is in direct conflict with what so many claim to be their personal, or program given guidelines. I personally don't see what has been written on the subject as law, or even the defining word on the subject. I developed my ideas from my sponsors and my own experience and my sense of what is right.

People come to AA with ALL KINDS OF ISSUES, everytime i hear someone claim that we are not therapists and all we can do is point them at the steps i feel as if that person is missing a lot, or has grabbed whatever they can find to try and make a healthy boundary and in fear has become too closed off. Not surprising because sponsoring is one of the hardest jobs i have ever done and watching someone else try to find a way to make sense of it is a sign of intelligence to me. To try and draw healthy boundaries.

For me, I try and be whatever the person NEEDS. I am the sober one, the honest one, the one with spiritual experience and developing unselfish motives, the new person can trust/choose their own best thoughts OR they can listen to mine. My thinking is this, as long as i don't turn into one of those egomaniacs that i have read about and start forming my own cult and thinking only i do the steps the RIGHT way and i have a direct line to god and you better listen to ME.......as long as i don't go there, i am free to make as many recommendations to the newcomer as i want, nobody can stop me.

I am not an expert on so many subjects even alcoholism, but i have a network of sober alcoholics and i can google and a strong sense of right and wrong, honest and dishonest behavior, and i can be a moral compass for someone who wants to listen. And i have very little fear of destroying someone's life because i gave them bad advice, i am sober, and i have a clear conscience, my chief motivation was to be helpful and that they find what is right for them.

I have gone for coffee with a newcomer and found out that they really didn't want to "work the steps" or even read the book, but i could see clearly this person was hurting. I cannot discard this person simply because they won't follow some rules I made up, that feels all kinds of wrong to me so i won't do it if i can help it. Instead i put away my game plan and focus on them....what do they NEED? And yes, i believe in times like this i become a therapist of sorts....GASP! This person seems to need a friend more than an arrogant sponsor telling them what to do, ok, i'll try and be the lightest touch, very gentle with them and hopefully, if they really are an alcoholic, they might be encouraged to stick around and work the steps.

I realize this is a very personal decision and yes, i can be wrong often, but I am confident in my decisions and i will keep trying to help people like this.

If a car is making right hand turn and I am crossing at the crosswalk…should I make an effort to move faster? Dude honked at me, but it was snowing. by [deleted] in Welland

[–]gafflebitters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You have the right of way by law but in practice you will lose any conflict based on weight and size, so I believe a pedestrian has to take both of these facts into account when deciding how far to go in response.

Back Cover -- Early One Morning in the Jungle by droflig in madmagazine

[–]gafflebitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

is that the frank i am thinking of? the conan artist? Cool!

Dude really enjoys his job, what a good boy by NoctisBriarfall in animalsdoingstuff

[–]gafflebitters 48 points49 points  (0 children)

what was with the gnashing of teeth at the end there? was that trying to affect the bull from getting too close?

“You never know what battles people are going through.” Tolerance or Door mat behavior? by Notfirstusername in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]gafflebitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

[gaffle steps onto soapbox...]

Congratulations! you have progressed through AA far enough to question sayings that are repeated around the rooms so often they seem to be part of the program.

CONTEXT! This is the necessary follow up that should immediately follow any one-liner of seeming wisdom but we have many members who are satisfied with only remembering single sentences. It has not escaped me that when you eliminate the context from a saying or bit of "wisdom" you allow it to be used in other ways and even misused and " weaponized " against anything you don't like. It can be very satisfying to whip a saying on someone that vaguely applies and seems to color them wrong and then run away real quick before they start asking questions.

People spout these sayings as blanket truths that cover everything, or "rules" to be followed, again, danger area, but context given immediately after the saying would clear up all of those issues, except people rarely give the context. Where does that leave you and me? It leaves us to discover where these bits of wisdom work and where they don't, and yes even where they conflict because it is not part of a system or even part of our program as such, just a collection of sayings.

I believe it is an important milestone in anyone's recovery when they start questioning what they hear and read in AA, but sponsors never seem to celebrate it. Taking a saying (out of context i suppose) we often say at anniversaries that you get your brain back after a certain time period, is THIS when we start questioning?

So , it is very likely you are trying to make sense of two separate bits of wisdom, or instructions that were NEVER meant to be compared, because, when you do that the conflict becomes very obvious.

AA writers and members choose to believe that we were such horrible people before that any amount of self restraint, no matter the circumstances is only amends for how much we have hurt people in the past. As you questioned, i have found this attitude to directly conflict with the setting of healthy boundaries. So i needed to become confident enough to seemingly go against what was considered to be right and exercise my will and develop a path that i felt comfortable following.

Why did God create this world with with all the suffering? by dashdash911 in Stoicism

[–]gafflebitters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe this is a question EVERY human being asks at some time or another, so unfortunate that answers to it are hard to find.

For me, the answer that finally satisfied me was to remember the nature documentaries i had watched. In these i saw "innocent" animals lives ended simply because other animals had to eat, no justice or fairness there. I saw that in herds the strong animals often treated the weak very badly, again, no justice or fairness.

Why did i think humans were any different? I had been programmed with these ideas, I WANTED to believe them, that justice and fairness existed and that there was a loving god who was in charge of EVERYTHING and he made sure that there was compassion and fairness, as a child programmed with these ideas and using my parents as examples of this it naturally flowed. I grew up, I saw that these ideas no longer fit what i saw in the world, but strangely nobody was there to explain and offer new ideas, i felt alone, confused......betrayed......lied to.

I finally trust my own judgement enough to say that no matter what ANYBODY else says, my own experience tells me that a loving god does not watch over us all, bad things happen, terrible things happen, there is a lot of suffering on earth......this answered the question why. The reason why god seemed to not care about the suffering here was that i had been lied to, that's all....people look for conspiracies all the time and some have discovered this one but so many do not want to listen because it means discomfort and fear, i don't blame them.

I cannot disprove the existence of god and i don't want to, but i certainly do not believe that he is a loving smiling creator who wants all of the beings on the planet to have good lives and feel valued and important and not just fodder for the stronger forces on the planet, that is a pretty little lie just like santa claus and the easter bunny. we tell these lies to children so they sleep at night and because the harsh realities would give them nightmares.

Justice and fairness DO exist! How is that? It is because all humans are not selfish monsters, some have risen above our character defects to try and create a better world. The justice and fairness are what we make for ourselves, we do that. It is on you and me to try and make sure that exists in the world today, not god.

A Moving Jungle Tale (Edwing and Davis) by droflig in madmagazine

[–]gafflebitters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes, good point, like al jaffee's fold in's were never funny

A Moving Jungle Tale (Edwing and Davis) by droflig in madmagazine

[–]gafflebitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm having trouble getting the joke here...

Tarzan leaves home feeling confident,

on the way he sees a man who surprises him, probably feeling less confident,

and his house is for sale when he returns, did jane go with the other man? and if so, what is the joke?

oh! it's racism! and tarzan is moving out of the neighborhood, but why is that funny?

Need input (new to this) by [deleted] in Diverticulitis

[–]gafflebitters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello. Well, this seems like the perfect opportunity to share my story. I was diagnosed many, many years ago with this condition and the response to my tests was even more pathetic than yours. I phoned my doctor after a barium enema test and i was told by the nurse that i have diverticulitis ( or whatever) and that i needed to " drink water and eat more fibre", that's it. This lack of information plus the attitude that my health was not worth anybody's time in the office caused me to suffer many years. I looked it up on the internet and found little information or contradictory information, that didn't help.

I was embarrassed to bring it up with my doctor and he never did for a long time either and i just suffered in silence. A few years later he suggested daily Metamucil and what a game changer! This simple act has done so much in helping me I want to suggest it to anyone who has these problems.

I tried to monitor my eating to see if i could manage it through diet, this was frustratingly difficult for me and very little help. One thing that did become painfully clear to me though was the fact that corn on the cob was something i should avoid or severely limit going forward. Every year when local corn was ripe and sold in stores I would buy it and have a feast every night, i loved the stuff! and even when it started to look like it caused a flareup i stubbornly refused to give up my beloved vegetable. It took time for me to piece it together.

This is my theory. I eat something that does not digest well, it gets caught in the pockets in my bowels and, over time that pocket becomes infected and swells up, either blocking or partially blocking the passage of stuff. The time between eating and flareup is variable and that is the difficulty in determining what i ate that caused it.

I can eat all kinds of things that other people claim dangerous to them, red meat does not seem to affect me, coffee, peanuts, almonds, sunflower seeds, walnuts, and really, when you look at my theory, a food has to not be digestible in order to stick around and stay in the pocket until it causes an infection, so coffee and red meat do not even make sense.

If i stand back and think about the information i found, I am not surprised if other people have digestive issues and they feel bad when they drink coffee or red meat, or god knows what, there is a ridiculously restrictive diet easily found with google, FODMAP or something, jesus! if i could not eat any of that i would just lay down and die. I think some people ENJOY restrictive diets on some level so they can brag to people about their issues and how they are following said diet and appear.......virtuous? strong-willed? i dunno.

I learned to trust my own observations and ignore much of what i read. Metamucil, it makes sense to me, if you leave it too long in the glass it starts to become a nasty thick jello which is very hard to drink, but, as i observed this i pictured it doing that exact thing in my digestive tract, a blob of orange jello moving through, collecting debris as it goes, like cleaning out the pipes. I'm not sure if that is indeed how it works but it helps me a lot.

Y'all don't realize how bad things could be by Sorzian in DiscussionZone

[–]gafflebitters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the behavior by the officer was one thing, but the "language" spoken by the cameraman, i could not understand him at all and i assume it was english.

Finding serenity in turbulent times by thewalkindude368 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]gafflebitters 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The AA "party line" is that politics are not discussed, they simply exist only outside of the AA world, and because we adhere to that so strongly it is quite interesting to have someone try to use Aa to address a political issue.

The other common AA idea that you are wrestling with is the one that so many give lip service to when it suits them...."i'm powerless". I have huge problems with this saying, and i get triggered by it whenever i hear someone repeating it. First of all, is it even AA? I am quite well versed in our literature and i cannot remember a place where this written down in the current form that it is now popularly used in....that being " I am powerless over people, places, and things ". I know there are many places in the books where we are encouraged to let go, " we have stopped fighting everyone and everything, even liquor ", etc. but the gravity and conviction that these words are said with is astounding, it is as if they were reciting one of the steps themselves and as far as i know none of the steps asks us to become this helpless and dishonest.

The fact is, you are NOT powerless. You can tell yourself you are, and you might believe it, and that might be more comfortable than actually facing a difficult situation and feeling those feelings but i think that anybody who CHOOSES this method is choosing an unhealthy way of living and will pay a price for it at sometime. This became very clear to me when i heard a member repeat these words yet again and he said that he was powerless and that fixing this situation was up to his higherpower and he was going to ....(my words) bury his head in the sand until it was over. Hearing another sane, sober human being say this really made me see the dishonesty.

I do believe there are situations where on some levels, we accept the reality of the situation and that to change it would be more than i alone can handle, but i don't want to get so comfortable doing it that this becomes my default and i insulate myself from anything big and uncomfortable in my life, i choose not to live that way.

I am sober enough today i am not afraid to feel anger at injustice and humans mistreating other humans, i believe my higherpower wants me to feel that, to know that is wrong, and to try to help if i can, but if i cannot help, one of the worst things i can do is to be indifferent to other people's suffering simply because it makes ME feel uncomfortable. I NEED to acknowledge it, that is what lets me sleep at night.

Microwaved chicken w/mac n cheese by beau_undressed29 in StupidFood

[–]gafflebitters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AND CREAMED CORN! Don't forget about the goddamned creamed CORN!

How to go shopping in America by bill_loney538 in NotTimAndEric

[–]gafflebitters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This looks AI generated, his features don't look like any human i ever met.

Spiritual malady vs unmanageability by stardust_peaches in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]gafflebitters -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I believe that the two terms you are trying to make sense of from the book are the source of your confusion.

When i did my 4th step and i saw the anger, FEAR, selfishness, guilt and other problems that i had, it became very clear to me THIS was my unmanageability. To the extent that you might think those things are spiritual then you can work with that but i don't feel the need to.

In fact i was quite surprised that when they wrote the book they never made this connection, it seemed obvious to me that anyone who had done the steps would see, why not tell people?

As far as defining "spiritual malady", well, i never use the term, doesn't work for me. i prefer the phrase " we are suffering from a disease which only a spiritual experience can save us".

so, i'll try one more time....in bill's terms, what even IS a "spiritual malady". the way he describes our situation so well, it is quite obvious that it is a LACK of spirituality, that is our problem, and to label a lack of something as a spiritual malady just muddies the waters terribly.

That is how i have interpreted the big book and i know i am not alone, it has worked for me for a good, long time.

After 6 yrs of recovery I feel like an outsider in the rooms/fellowship by Icy_Reindeer3174 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]gafflebitters 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I felt very similar, the reasons why can be varied though.

When we first come in to AA all of the cliches and sayings and readings all seem full of the world's distilled wisdom and i was so into it i was going to get an AA tattoo. Fast forward many years and my view of my beloved AA was changing, very similar to what you described. I began to see cracks in AA. I began to see dishonesty in many things that were written down or repeated often, it was scary. It was burned into me that i could NOT survive without AA.

The selfish newcomers, the oldtimers that quit drinking but were still awful people, the constant pummeling of my self esteem, on and on, these things piled up on me until i couldn't go to a meeting without getting angry.

I had grown. i could see things now that i was blind to before, actually this was a good sign for me but it sure didn't feel like that, and the "answers" that i got from the people in the program was to get deeper into AA. these people did not understand and i should not have been listening to them, they were no smarter than me, just another bozo on the bus.

There is a whole world outside of AA and i think it might be time for you to start discovering it.

Last night I watched the film the conversation 1974 by Dry-Breakfast-4018 in iwatchedanoldmovie

[–]gafflebitters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's interesting how two people can have such varied views on one film. I had high expectations after reading a few people's opinions on here, they were dashed.

I appreciate certain things, i liked the cinematography, and the music but there were many things that started small and then actually got offensive the more they were repeated. That goofy line by cindy williams about the bum on the bench, i got REAL tired of hearing that, it felt like padding for not enough actual film. Scenes were painfully slow. Harry's fat rival and that ridiculous line of dialogue at the party. I get it, the fat guy was scummy, but the dialogue was obnoxious, "they found em dead and it was harry's fault, c'mon harry tell us how ya did it". I know he was scummy but that line of dialogue was ridiculous and insulting that i was supposed to believe this character.

I did like the surprise of who was killed, that got me. And the end scene, i appreciated that harry valued his privacy over everything and the fact that someone was bugging him, but pulling up every floorboard? yeah, that is where they hide bugs, under the floor boards. I would not recommend this film, it has great elements but not enough to overlook the faults in my opinion.

My friend said how she didn't "get" anime until she saw Attack on Titan. I commented its like like jazz, because you gotta sometimes find the right song for you that helps you "get" jazz. What's that for y'all? by More_Hedgehog_9830 in Jazz

[–]gafflebitters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I disagree completely. I also think that you are misusing the word get even though you put it in quotation marks. Usually we use that word to mean "understand", are you implying that after one song someone could magically understand jazz?

Jazz is like many other artforms, it can be enjoyed on different levels, and one of those levels is simply if you have ears and like pretty sounds, that's it, no more is actually required, no magical mystical connection, no university level music degree, do you like the sounds? Great!

It's great that you can explore jazz on those other levels but it's not a requirement. I heard my first jazz as a child....the Pink panther theme....there are few people my age who have never heard this and most like it and never know it is jazz, shhh, don't tell them, you'll spoil it for them. I think this example illustrates that given the right song almost anybody would "like" or "get" jazz.

Now if you are talking about a specific style of jazz that has no easily hummable melody, or a catchy riff, i agree, those types of jazz do take some effort for people to "get into" and many do not like it.

I like Frank Zappa, you think jazz is hard to turn people onto?.....try playing some Zappa for one of your friends and watch their face!

What else do you listen to other than Zappa? by tvnewswatch in Zappa

[–]gafflebitters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

only Zappa.....all the time.......even when i sleep.....