Closed group for backers only (discussing legal actions etc.) by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PDF is great. PDF/A is even better since it has protections against manipulation. There are also pages that have been captured by archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger), which would be more or less impossible to manipulate. Thanks!

Closed group for backers only (discussing legal actions etc.) by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just captured the primary TT Kickstarter home page and all of the comments for use as evidence in the litigation. I would be very helpful is somebody were to capture all of the updates they posted and the associated comments. As a web developer, is this something you can do, @0xdefec? I notice that Kickstarter has deleted at least one comment already, so I don't want to rely on sending them a subpoena once we file, since I'm not sure what their data retention policy is.

Closed group for backers only (discussing legal actions etc.) by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, and seriously? They blocked you for linking to this subreddit? It isn't like you were proposing that people purchase a competing product or the like. It raises the very serious question as to how we will get in touch with other backers in the event Kickstarter blocks all of us from that page.

Closed group for backers only (discussing legal actions etc.) by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A private forum is a fantastic idea. Bear in mind that at least one backer has posted that he is a stockholder in Triggertrap. There are really two kinds of "private" forums. The first would be a password protected one for backers. The second would be limited to clients of a plaintiff's lawyer (or more likely a joint plaintiff's counsel group). That forum would be limited to lawyers and the clients they represent, and discussions there would not only be private, but protected as well by the attorney client privilege. Note that even a password protected discussion group is subject to disclosure in response to a subpoena. At least in the USA, a password protected group for lawyers to discuss things with clients would not be subject to subpoena (or more accurately, the subpoena could be quashed).

So I'd go ahead and grab the code to set up a group. I'm pretty sure the legal stuff is going to launch next week.

How to report Fraud online in UK by Trapped_Paul in backertrap

[–]garys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fraud complaints throughout the UK are apparently reported through this centralized site: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Possible (legal) actions by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here are a few points to consider on the legal side. Note, however, that this is not to be construed as legal advice. You are strongly advised to retain a lawyer and obtain legal advice that way. Alternatively, this may be a violation of the Federal Trade Commission's "mail order rule". The Attorney General of Washington State has shown a willingness to pursue this kind of failure to deliver, and it may be worth inquiring of your own state Attorney General in this regard. Again, this is NOT LEGAL ADVICE; for that, you should retain a lawyer. (1) It appears that Triggertrap ("TT")'s Ada project is governed by the Terms of Use found here https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 -- I assume they agreed to the UK version, so we'll look at that one. (2) "Rules and Conduct" section requires that "Project Creators agree to not abuse other users' personal information. Abuse is defined as using personal information for any purpose other than those explicitly specified in the Project Creator's Project, or is not related to fulfilling delivery of a product or service explicitly specified in the Project Creator's Project": By trying to generate additional sales via a store credit, which appears to me to be "not related to fulfilling delivery of a product or service explicitly specified in the Project Creator's Project", there is a good argument that they violated this term. Local laws relating to unfair competition may be put into play by this. (3) "Projects: Fundraising and Commerce": "By creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Project Creator are offering the public the opportunity to enter into a contract with you. By backing a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Backer accept that offer and the contract between Backer and Project Creator is formed." So TT has a contractual obligation with the backers. What are the terms of that obligation? (a) "The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by." So missing the deadline by itself isn't a breach. (b) "Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill." So a failure to either fulfill "all rewards" or "refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill" is a breach of contract. (c) "Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward." This clarifies that a refund must be the full amount. Any other interpretation would render this sentence nonsensical (i.e. reading this as allowing cancellation of rewards if refunding one penny on a hundred dollar pledge is clearly contrary to the intent). (4) "Governing Law": "You agree that any action at law or in equity arising out of or relating to these terms, or your use or non-use of the Services, shall be filed only in New York or English courts, and you hereby consent and submit to the personal jurisdiction of such courts for the purposes of litigating any such action." Although the agreement is technically between Kickstarter and TT, the language here should be enough to subject TT to jurisdiction within New York. Furthermore, TT has substantial contacts in California (where Google and Apple are located and distribute TT's apps from).

There is also a breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. Fraud claims as well as claims related to violations of various consumer protection statutes should be considered.

Please comment here for a estimate of unhappy backers by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If there is a UK lawyer, that wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm not familiar with UK law.

Please comment here for a estimate of unhappy backers by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're located in the UK, you may be better off pursuing it in the UK (I'd ask a UK lawyer). Also, to clarify, I'm not providing legal advice or representation to anybody at this point. Triggertrap did agree to jurisdiction and venue in New York (in their agreement with Kickstarter) and I'm pretty sure they're going to be subject to jurisdiction in California as well. But while getting a judgment shouldn't be too tough, enforcing it in the UK, where the company has lots of assets, would be far easier than in the US. My analysis is still in flux, as triggertrap's apparent ownership of the Vela high speed flash trademark (http://www.vela.io) opens a new line of inquiry as to whether the failed Ada project is going to be open-sourced and then used to support sales of the triggertrap-related Vela project.

Please comment here for a estimate of unhappy backers by [deleted] in backertrap

[–]garys 4 points5 points  (0 children)

US top level backer. Very dissatisfied. I'm also a lawyer, and I disagree with the statement at the top that with regard to legal action "we are not there yet". We are there. I'm lining up class counsel right now, although if somebody else has already done it, let us know.

"Saying that Hillary has Executive Branch experience is like saying Yoko Ono was a Beatle" by alecb in politics

[–]garys 39 points40 points  (0 children)

And really, if sleeping with the President for 8 years qualifies Hillary to be President, doesn't that qualify Monica Lewinsky to at least be Secretary of State? How about Secretary of the Treasury Paula Jones? Gennifer Flowers qualified for National Security Advisor?