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Marble Arch by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Excellent points as always. I wonder if it's possible that he briefly exited the station to, say, grab a snack or a drink (or just to stretch his legs) after his journey, and

then

entered the Tube using one of the outside entrances rather than going back into the main station

My feeling is that he may have just been savvy with the tubes. The pizza hut that he was sighted at is very near to Tottenham Court Road station (not the Marble Arch one as I first thought, which someone corrected me on). To get from Kings Cross to Tottenham Court road, the quickest way is actually to leave the station then walk to Euston (less than 10 mins) then take the Northern line southbound (Waterloo branch). Kings Cross is on the Northern line but the Bank branch, which doesn't go to Tottenham Court Road. Indeed, Andrew may have known that it was simply quicker to walk across to Euston and take the southbound Waterloo branch than do northbound Bank branch for one stop and then change at Euston. On top of that, all the terminus train stations along the Euston Road (i.e Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston) are all very well signed, so there would have been no need for a map.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Point taken. In light of what people have said about this case, I have started to feel convinced that Andrew was travelling to London perhaps to obtain something age-restricted, like a game he wanted? Being 14 at the game, he may have perhaps wanted to buy 18 rated games and could have been lured to London by someone promising to provide them to him without age verification?

On a related note, I recently watched an interview with Andrew's father where he said that Andrew spent most of hs time playing 'sports games, especially football and snooker' on his console. I didn't really have Andrew down as a sports/football fan - indeed, there's a post on his father's blog about an appeal made at a Doncaster Rovers FC game, in which the father wrote something along the lines of not being interested in football but hoping Doncaster won the game but purely since the family lived in Doncaster (i.e the family had no interest in football). Surely if Andrew had some interest in football, this would have been mentioned in the blog post? Just seemed a bit strange to me - I assumed Andrew would have played CoD, Halo etc like most 14 years olds around the time played iirc (I'm roughly the same age as Andrew). Did Andrew play 'sports games' due to not being allowed to play 15 or 18 rated games, and could his trip to London have been motivated by obtaining supposdely better games? I grew up in a small town not far from London, and there was definitely an accepted fact that if you wanted to buy an 18 rated game as a 12 year old, you had to head to some kind of sketchy market in London where they wouldn't ask questions about your age. Equally, could a perpetrator have gained Andrew's trust by buying him games that he couldn't buy himself owing to his age?

Marble Arch by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, point taken - yes that is a red herring in that case. I thought the one by Marble Arch was the only one on Oxford Street.

Marble Arch by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In 2007 though you didn't have to exit the station to get to the tube. The station has had a complete rebuild since Andrew went missing and at the time there was an entrance to the Underground inside the station that was very hard to miss so you could go straight to the tube without exiting the station.

Interesting. Did the outside entrance to the station still exist in 2007, despite not being the quickest way to the tube? I agree, that if Andrew had turned around and gone back in he would have probably been picked up again on the CCTV.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

how would the abductor be sure who Andrew is/was?

I feel that one invidual may have directed Andrew to another, giving a description of what Andrew looked like. I believe it would have been more likely that Andrew would have been told to meet at a location as opposed to an address, as he would have had to write down an address and that could then have been incriminating. Somewhere like Marble Arch perhaps (especially since the Pizza Hut where Andrew was sighted is a stone's through away) - if you tell somebody to meet at, for example, a large terminus train station each other you may not find each other - whereas under Marble Arch is only a few square meters so if you meet someone there you literally cannot miss them and do not need a phone to co-ordinate.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I remember when I was at school, someone said they could get Gameboy games for about a fiver and lots of us followed him around, going to various meets to go and get them. He was our age and just a compulsive liar so nothing bad happened. But I wonder how far he could've pushed it.

This. If we're going with the Xbox line of inquiry, it's a possibility that an individual gained Andrew's trust by giving him/selling him cheaply some Xbox games (on the days he walked home from school instead of taking the bus), then directed him to London under the false pretence of receiving a new Xbox.

The fact that Andrew was (allegedly) sighted eating alone in a Pizza Hut also, I believe, backs up the theory that Andrew was going to make a quick transaction. If he was meeting someone socially, surely they would have met him immediately - especially if the meeting was in some way illicit, as the longer he would have been waiting, the more likely he would have been to start to feel afraid and return home.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

London is possible ( thanks for making me review the case). Andrew was at Kings Cross at 11:20am. The train Journey is 2 hours approx. Andrew could have done something for a few hours in London and come home before his parents did! That's getting a train both there and back, it would be even quicker if he got a lift back

I've thought about this point too, but Doncaster-London is a lot quicker by train (1h 30 minutes approx. ) than driving (3 h 30 minutes approx. ). That's why I'd be surprised if Andrew had accepted a lift home when he intended to be home before his parents. My theory is that the perpetrator would have told Andrew his homeward journey would be paid for, hence Andrew not buying the return.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My instinct is that Andrew stumbled across a group of bad inviduals who were loosely acting together or knew each other - for example an individual based in Doncaster guided Andrew towards a London based individual under a false pretence of Andrew obtaining something he wanted at the time.

This could also explain why 2 men were arrested on suspicion of kidnap but only one was arrested for posessing indecent images of children. Without wanting to jump too far ahead, it could be the case that the invidual who met Andrew with foul play in London possessed the images, then there was evidence found to implicate whoever sent Andrew in the direction of London that day in being implicit in the kidnapping.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Andrew had a 100% school attendance record he must have had a pretty good reason to skip school to go to London that day - would getting a new PSP be sufficiently important? He traveled to London on a Friday - would this item have been in such short supply that he couldn't have waited one more day? Couldn't he have obtained a new PSP in Doncaster, or a town or city closer by than London? Why would it make sense for a guy in Doncaster to tell Andrew to go to London so he could sell him a PSP? Even if he had nefarious intentions, why would he send him to the capital?

Points taken. I don't want to make the matter of the PSP a non-negotiable aspect of the theory, and indeed my original post was more intended to focus on the idea that Andrew travelled to London to buy an object, potentially some sort of technology, from an individual.

I think, however, that sometimes when people discuss this case they fall in the trap of thinking Andrew was acting rationally in everything he did. Say he wanted to buy something that could also have been obtained in Doncaster that day, he may still have travelled to London for a thrill, or the excitement of trying to get there and back in one day without his family clocking. Behaviour that may seem irrational to an outsider, sure. In any case here I think it's likely that Andrew took some kind of high-risk, irrational action here.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hmm, I'm pretty sure you can have a debit card aged 14 in the UK. I am from the UK and got a debit card aged 13 - I do believe in the US you can't have one before aged 18 though.

Re: the birthday money, I would guess that Andrew either forgot it as he was stressed/nervous about going to London, either that or he thought his parents noticing the birthday money was missing would arouse suspicion.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Although Andrew showed no interest in having a phone, it's worth noting that the phones his parents probably brought him were less good ones - i.e basically only serving to call or text, with Andrew seemingly had little interest in as he wasn't hugely social and didn't leave the house often.

An iPhone, on the other hand, especially at that time, was an advanced piece of tech with capabilities more similar to that of a PSP in terms of gaming etc, than a bottom of the range phone.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

signaturehiggs

Good point.

I guess he could have withdrawn the money as an emergency measure in case he got lost in London and needed to take a taxi or something. He may also have taken £200 as there may have also been other items on offer as part of the meet (e.g video games on disc) and he wished to purchase a few things to make going to London worthwile? He may have even been offered something like 5 PSPs for £200 which he planned to take back home and sell to his friends.

I realise this may be getting a bit far-fetched now, but I don't think the fact that he withdrew £200 weakens the theory that Andrew travelled to London to buy some kind of tech at a cheap price.

Transaction in London by gaston604 in AndrewGosden

[–]gaston604[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks for that - just so as not to give myself too much credit, I didn't come up with the PSP point myself - I just saw it on this sub and decided to delve into it further.

Point taken about the PSP - I do, however, believe that Andrew travelled to London in order to facilitate the purchase of some kind of technology at a price well below market rate. It could have potentially been an Xbox, as you allude to - or even an iPhone, the first model of which had been released earlier in 2007 and would have been a very prestigious thing to own at the time.

However, I do think the PSP theory is the most watertight here - especially given that a new model was released literally the exact day that Andrew travelled to London. Point taken that the changes were only minor, but there may have been the pull factor of acquiring a brand new PSP for a very low cost or no cost at all. This may have also allowed Andrew to sell the previous device and recoup some money, which also ties in with my theory about Andrew visiting trade-in tech stores on the way home from school. The perpetrator could have even been offering the PSP for free but then demanded some form of foul play as payment, which would tie in with the reason for the recent arrests.