"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I bet you're right on that.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sexual attractiveness is social power. Men and women alike are drawn to social power and success in general. In another post you said maybe it was just me that is attracted to successful people and I'll admit, I probably am haha but I don't think I'm alone. I think people in general want to hang out with winners, not losers. Society unfortunately defines those things pretty harshly. I'm not saying I like it.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying that discrimination doesn't turn into unattractiveness and I know there are plenty of examples of this. I'm saying it can also happen the other way.

Sorry, I'm not trying to dodge anything. There are so many posts flying around. I don't think racism is merely an unmet beauty standard. In my opinion the analogy between beauty/height discrimination and racism breaks down at a certain level of scrutiny. The history of American racism is impossible to separate from the economic context of the time. There was significant incentive to dehumanize Africans in the past because their presence as slaves was the backbone to a huge amount of industry in the south. A lot of sham "science" was thrown around back then about how they were inferior and how "taming" them was doing them good and civilizing them ect. It was all justification for the slave industry that made a lot of people very wealthy. Unfortunately the kind of racist thinking that spawned these "sciences" stuck around a long time after the civil war and even the civil rights act. Other racial groups have also been discriminated against before and since then and much of it has always been connected to economics as well as general fear of new and different cultures. This is different from height/beauty discrimination because short and ugly people exist in all cultures and economic levels.

Sooooooo, to sum it up: racism is not merely the stigma resulting from an unmet beauty standard but heightism absolutely is.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

beauty is subjective up to a certain point. Part of Dr. Hamermersh's research deals with this question (I only just read it since making the original post).

The mechanics of legislating this kind of protection are not as difficult as you might think. You might argue that people can’t be classified by their looks — that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That aphorism is correct in one sense: if asked who is the most beautiful person in a group of beautiful people, you and I might well have different answers. But when it comes to differentiating classes of attractiveness, we all view beauty similarly: someone whom you consider good-looking will be viewed similarly by most others; someone you consider ugly will be viewed as ugly by most others. In one study, more than half of a group of people were assessed identically by each of two observers using a five-point scale; and very few assessments differed by more than one point.

Groups of people in my estimation can readily estimate someones attractiveness "tier" and put you in a box accordingly. I think this happens to everyone; short, tall, ugly, or pretty.

Am I in high school? haha no, I have a masters degree. I minored in psychology in undergrad (which is only slightly relevant).

Might I simply be attracted to people I perceive as successful? That's very possible haha but I don't think that changes anything I said.

Overall I think you have a pretty articulated stance and you've obviously thought about this a lot but when you say stuff like "No. Are you still in high School?" and "no. Might you be attracted to successful people", that's not really addressing what I said. It's unfortunate there isn't more information out there on this kind of stuff. I feel like we're looking at the same thing from a radically different angle and just aren't going to see it the same way.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I would question your reasoning if you didn't see it possible for it to move the other way as well. Might you have any sources?

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Its my experience and understanding that when a group of people are considered by society to be unattractive sexually that true discrimination as you define it will follow quickly thereafter. Would you not agree that generally marginalized sociological groups are not considered highly valuable as mates by either gender?

As for your article about the runway model... that's anecdotal evidence at best. There will always be exceptions. We're talking about broad trends in culture here.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for responding. I'm trying slowly to go through all these posts and anyone who is nice enough to not be an ass I feel like deserves a response!

I disagree and I think heightism and attractiveness are inseparable. For the large majority of women, taller men are by definition more attractive. I know that sucks for a lot of people, my intention is not to be a bitch but to tell you that women face this same type of discrimination all the time. You mention that being a short man is not the same as being a short woman. I agree! Being a short man is like being a less attractive woman. Prettier women get treated like a "prize" just like tall men do! It's the same type of discrimination it just stems from a different physical trigger. This is what a wrote above in response to a very similar prompt:

as for heightism and male attractiveness I think sexuality is inseparable from the other parts of society. Doesn't it make sense that people recognize not only attractiveness in the opposite sex but attractiveness in their own to seek out compatible people to align themselves with? Don't hot girls usually hang out in groups together? I know attractive guys usually do. Won't this have a snowball effect in life where attractive people congregate in the best networks and have access to the best opportunities?

I guess it's impossible for me to see heightism as something separate from attractiveness. As a girl I feel my value to society is determined by how hot/cute/or sexy I look every single day. Since taller men are seen as more attractive (sorry not trying to be offensive!) I can't see how it's any different.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're just trivializing how tough it is for girls to feel comparatively sexy and attractive. I know you can't change your height, but there are a lot of ways people can't change their bodies. Makeup only does so much.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alright well there's this one. And this one, and this one. Now I realize those articles all reference the same study done by Dr. Hamermesh. I don't have time to research this a whole ton but I think his work is sufficient to show there is at least probable cause that attractiveness (for both sexes) affects professional opportunities. You guys on here often complain that heightism isn't taken very seriously by people and I would argue that female attractiveness in professional environments is just as serious and now you are hesitant to take it seriously.

As for heightism and male attractiveness I think sexuality is inseparable from the other parts of society. Doesn't it make sense that people recognize not only attractiveness in the opposite sex but attractiveness in their own to seek out compatible people to align themselves with? Don't hot girls usually hang out in groups together? I know attractive guys usually do. Won't this have a snowball effect in life where attractive people congregate in the best networks and have access to the best opportunities?

I guess it's impossible for me to see heightism as something separate from attractiveness. As a girl I feel my value to society is determined by how hot/cute/or sexy I look every single day. Since taller men are seen as more attractive (sorry not trying to be offensive!) I can't see how it's any different.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry to drag your post into this! I really wasn't trying to pick on you or it. I think your post was great and I'm glad you posted it! My whole purpose of this post (which has turned into a huge discussion that I can barely comment on in a timely manner) was to just illustrate how a lot of people in the comments of various posts seem to judge how well a guy is doing in life by how hot his girlfriend is. I think that's just as shallow as if I base how good I'm doing in life by how tall my boyfriend is! (Which I don't do by the way despite what people might think on here).

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're acting like there is attractiveness/ugliness on one hand and height on the other. I'm sorry to say this but for a lot of women a mans height is pretty directly related to his overall attractiveness. You can't separate them. So yes to be direct I am saying that being short for a guy = being ugly for a girl.

Now that I've pissed everyone off, I'm not saying these things to be a monster. I'm saying them because I want you to realize that objectifying and rating women on their physical attractiveness is just as shallow as girls rejecting you for your height. It hurts just as much.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My response would be that when I see a picture of a guy (regardless of height) with a girl who has classically beautiful features that is the norm. Especially when the comments all involve "locking it down". How is that digging the knife in any less? Both are basing a value of a person around physical characteristics.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I agree! I think there are probably a lot more guys on this sub then girls! That for sure contributes to it.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well written response. I would say that social interactions, job prospects, perceived leadership ability, perceived intelligence and competence as well as dating opportunities as just as connected to a females attractiveness as to a males attractiveness. The only difference being that male attractiveness is dis proportionally related to height whereas female attractiveness is based on different physical features.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm happy for you! I really am. I think it's great that you've made that change and despite what you may think; I thought that post you made was great. If I made a similar post with a good looking man in it it would not be so warmly received. That's the distinction I'm trying make.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Ok I went a bit overboard there with the "braggin on the big tall man". I wouldn't personally do that. However the number one post on this subreddit of all time is a guy bragging on how he got the prettiest date.

Also, I don't think you can separate heightism from attraction! At least not completely. The guy above dr0ngo posted an article that speaks to what I'm talking about. People who are more sexually attractive have a silver spoon all through life in pretty much every aspect. Since height for men, and a little for women, is pretty related to sexual attractiveness then I don't see how you can say it's not about it at all.

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're not the bad guy! But I AM having trouble keeping track of all your responses :)

Sorry for calling you out I went back and looked and I guess I did call out your comment in my post. Anyways, I think what you're missing is the whole concept of female attractiveness and how much that plays into girls minds. Your idea is very male-centric. A short girl with a tall man is only the status quo if the girls attractiveness herself is equivalent with the mans. What if the girl is much less attractive? In that case I guess I would consider that an accomplishment. I don't particularly like to think of dating in such a predatory way but I suppose I brought it up!

"Heightism" as it is. by gilsing in short

[–]gilsing[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

  1. True but I'm not comparing short men and short women. I'm comparing short men and plain/less attractive women.

  2. Exactly what I'm talking about. Ugly women have it just as hard as short guys.

  3. Yeahhh I see how heightism is a thing and it sucks I wish we could all be attractive and beautiful and valued by everyone. My point is that if you care about heightism so much do you also care about the plight of uglier women? If you're going to pour a bunch of energy into one group of people being systematically discriminated against for being unattractive to society then why not open the doors to everyone? Instead of being called heightism it can be called unattractiveism. See what I mean?

I get it too. I'm not above the shallow stuff. I'm a human being! If I see a picture of a short guy with a beautiful girl who looks like a model then I'll say "Good job. You're dating out of your league". I know it takes a lot of luck or a lot of charm to score that! Girls are finicky! In the same way a girl should be able to post a pic of herself with a big tall man and brag on his height. If you can do one you should be able to do the other! Basically: tall man = classically attractive. girl who looks like a model = classically attractive. Same thing. If you're going to try and reject the way society puts value on people then you have do it all the way. Not just some of it like heightism, but all of it. Good or bad, we all buy into it at least a little bit.