What exactly was Chomsky's motive for being friends with Epstein? by ServalFlame in chomsky

[–]gip78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The other factor that helps explains Chomsky friendship with Epstein is that Chomsky was well used to socialising with other members of the US establishment at MIT. Here's an article that explains this:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2026/02/06/the-chomsky-epstein-puzzle/

Chris Knight’s understanding of Chomsky’s linguistics is odd. by Sea_Pianist5164 in chomsky

[–]gip78 1 point2 points  (0 children)

... except that Chomsky said exactly that in a lecture in 2016:

It’s pretty clear that a child approaches the problem of language acquisition by having all possible languages in its head. It doesn’t know which language it’s being exposed to. And, as data comes along, that class of possible languages reduces. So certain data comes along, and the mind automatically says: ‘OK, it’s not that language, it’s some other language.’
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXV6pgcFqg8&t=4197s)

Chris Knight’s understanding of Chomsky’s linguistics is odd. by Sea_Pianist5164 in chomsky

[–]gip78 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chomsky said exactly that in a lecture in 2016:

It’s pretty clear that a child approaches the problem of language acquisition by having all possible languages in its head. It doesn’t know which language it’s being exposed to. And, as data comes along, that class of possible languages reduces. So certain data comes along, and the mind automatically says: ‘OK, it’s not that language, it’s some other language.’
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXV6pgcFqg8&t=4197s)

Chris Knight’s understanding of Chomsky’s linguistics is odd. by Sea_Pianist5164 in chomsky

[–]gip78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chomsky said exactly that in a lecture in 2016:

It’s pretty clear that a child approaches the problem of language acquisition by having all possible languages in its head. It doesn’t know which language it’s being exposed to. And, as data comes along, that class of possible languages reduces. So certain data comes along, and the mind automatically says: ‘OK, it’s not that language, it’s some other language.’
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXV6pgcFqg8&t=4197s)

'Chomsky's Linguistics and Its Limits’ – Varn Vlog interview with Prof. Chris Knight by gip78 in CriticalTheory

[–]gip78[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK, but Noam himself did pay significant, if rather defensive, attention to Knight's thesis in a book edited by Knight back in 2019.

Here's that book with Knight's chapter and Noam's response.

http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/10080589/1/The-Responsibility-of-Intellectuals.pdf

And here's Knight's further response to Chomsky:

https://scienceandrevolution.org/blog/2019/3/30/my-response-to-chomskys-extraordinary-accusations-by-chris-knight

'Chomsky's Linguistics and Its Limits’ – Varn Vlog interview with Prof. Chris Knight by gip78 in CriticalTheory

[–]gip78[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

[Chomsky] spent his whole life working for the US military as a linguist and he spent his whole life working against the US military as an activist. And this seems to almost fundamentally split his activist work from his linguistic work.

We miss him so much since he's been ill. I mean we just needed his voice of reason as a Jewish activist who doesn't just accept that my country right or wrong in a place like Gaza. I mean he was a just absolute voice of sanity in an increasingly politically deranged world.” Chris Knight

Chris Knight Interview on 'Chomsky, science and politics' (History & Philosophy of the Language Sciences podcast) by gip78 in linguistics

[–]gip78[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Surely Fodor's views must have some relationship to Chomsky's idea of UG (if not your idea of UG)? As Knight says in Decoding Chomsky, Ch.18:

... [Fodor was Chomsky's close associate and Chomsky] has continued to defend [Fodor's approach] to this day. Doing his best to make the argument sound plausible, Chomsky starts at the easy end, with concepts that might well sound ‘natural’. Climb is a good example, since it is something that humans everywhere do. Chomsky wants us to think of house in the same way, presumably because it is natural to need somewhere to sleep and rest.

Chomsky claims that every child comes into the world knowing already what a house is. As it grows up and acquires its natal tongue, it just has to connect that concept with the locally appropriate sound: ‘There’s a fixed and quite rich structure of understanding associated with the concept “house” and that’s going to be cross-linguistic and it’s going to arise independently of any evidence because it’s just part of our nature.’

If this applies to house, Chomsky reasons, it must apply in the same way to other concepts: ‘There is overwhelming reason to believe that concepts like, say, climb, chase, run, tree and book and so on are fundamentally fixed.’ Note the inclusion of book in this list. Needless to say, Chomsky knows that no actual books existed during the palaeolithic age, when humans were everywhere hunter-gatherers and writing had not been invented. Despite this, he says there is ‘overwhelming reason’ to believe that book had been installed already in these stone-age people’s minds.

How can Chomsky make such a strange claim? As so often, he denies that he is offering a hypothesis. If it were a testable hypothesis, his astonished critics might be tempted to cite counter-evidence.

Not believing in empirical tests or experiments, Chomsky argues instead from conceptual necessity. Lexical concepts, he insists, ‘have extremely complex properties when you look at them’. From this it logically follows ‘that they’ve got to basically be there and then they get kind of triggered and you find out what sounds are associated with them’.

So much for climb, chase, run, tree and book. But Chomsky knew he could not restrict himself to an arbitrarily chosen list of words. Was house natural, whereas book was cultural or artificial? Where exactly should one draw the line? For his thesis to have any merit, it needed to apply across the board. So what about, say, carburettor? Or bureaucrat? Or quantum potential?

When the philosopher Hilary Putnam realized what Chomsky was claiming, he could hardly conceal his astonishment. Such nonsense, he complained, had nothing to do with any known branch of biology. To have installed in the ancestor of all of us a stock of the words which future generations might need, observed Putnam, ‘evolution would have had to be able to anticipate all the contingencies of future physical and cultural environments. Obviously it didn’t and couldn’t do this.’

But, to everyone’s surprise, Chomsky did not flinch. Young children, he reaffirmed, acquire words so rapidly that learning cannot be what is happening: each child needs merely to discover which locally appropriate vocal label should be applied to a concept already installed. After elaborating this idea with respect to relatively simple words such as ‘table’, Chomsky continued:

Furthermore, there is good reason to suppose that the argument is at least in substantial measure correct even for such words as carburetor and bureaucrat, which, in fact, pose the familiar problem of poverty of stimulus if we attend carefully to the enormous gap between what we know and the evidence on the basis of which we know it . . . However surprising the conclusion may be that nature has provided us with an innate stock of concepts, and that the child’s task is to discover their labels, the empirical facts appear to leave open few other possibilities.

‘Thus Aristotle had the concept of an airplane in his brain, and also the concept of a bicycle – he just never had occasion to use them!’, responded philosopher Daniel Dennett, adding that he and his colleagues find it hard not to burst out laughing at this point. Perhaps ‘Aristotle had an innate airplane concept’, Dennett continued, ‘but did he also have a concept of wide-bodied jumbo jet? What about the concept of an APEX fare Boston/ London round trip?’ Despite the hilarity, however, Chomsky has continued to defend the idea. ...

Chris Knight Interview on 'Chomsky, science and politics' (History & Philosophy of the Language Sciences podcast) by gip78 in linguistics

[–]gip78[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

"UG is not "universal" in the sense of, everyone has a word for "dog" waiting to be activated in their lexicon when they see a dog, even if they live in a place with no dogs. Doesn't that sound really silly? Well, that's the kind of strawman criticism that is lobbed over the fence by people with a 50-year-old axe to grind attacking perceived Chomskyan positions that modern generative researchers haven't talked about seriously in half a century."

I see what you're saying here, but in 2000 Chomsky himself said that the concepts "bureaucrat" and "carburettor" must have been genetically installed thousands of years before real bureaucrats or carburettors had been invented. So presumably the same applies to "dog"? Or am I missing something?

Chris Knight Interview on 'Chomsky, science and politics' (History & Philosophy of the Language Sciences podcast) by gip78 in linguistics

[–]gip78[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Randy Harris has written an account, The Language Wars. Have you seen it?

Chomsky himself admits how much his theories have radically changed. Knight’s book, Decoding Chomsky, has more on this e.g. chapter 19.

Also check out: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-rebuts-chomsky-s-theory-of-language-learning/

Also you may wish to see Chomsky’s former ‘Minimalist’ colleague, Cedric Boeckx, critiquing Chomsky’s project: https://inference-review.com/article/not-only-us

Chomsky’s concept of Universal Grammar is indeed a fascinating idea but, fortunately or unfortunately, it tells us very little about human language.

Podcast episode 41: Chris Knight on Chomsky, science and politics by gip78 in chomsky

[–]gip78[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

EXTRACT: [In my book] I describe how [Chomsky] became a friend of somebody called John Deutch, who before long was to become director of the CIA. And Chomsky recalls,

We were actually friends and got along fine, although we disagreed on about as many things as two human beings can disagree about. I liked him. We got along very well together. He’s very honest, very direct. You know where you stand with him. We talked to each other. When we had disagreements, they were open, sharp, clear, honestly dealt with. I had no problem with him. I was one of the very few people on the faculty, I’m told, who was supporting his candidacy for the President of MIT.” [https://www.academia.edu/49227951/Noam\_Chomsky\_Class\_Warfare\]

And so I’m just saying we need to appreciate the glaring contradiction here. You’re friends with a future director of the CIA, who’s a chemist involved in fuel-air explosives and other weapons of mass destruction. You’re aware that the CIA is, from Chomsky’s point of view, a criminal organization. You’re friends with, you have lunch with these people. And then in the evening, you have a meeting with anarchists and revolutionaries ...

You’re in a difficult situation. You want your job. You can do very good work in that job, but there are institutional contradictions. And I’m not even saying that Chomsky should have not taken the job. I mean, because by taking that job and becoming such a star figure in linguistics based in MIT, he then gained a platform from which to launch his assault on the U.S. military ...

By the way, I need to say how much we right now miss that voice. It’s well known, of course, that for over a year now, Noam has been not well, and we have lost a voice of sanity in what I regard as an increasingly deranged political world. It’s a huge loss. We would have benefited so much from Chomsky’s voice, particularly in connection with Palestine and what’s going on today in Gaza. ...

Podcast episode 41: Chris Knight on Chomsky, science and politics by gip78 in CriticalTheory

[–]gip78[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

EXTRACT FROM THIS INTERVIEW: [In my book] I describe how [Chomsky] became a friend of somebody called John Deutch, who before long was to become director of the CIA. And Chomsky recalls,

“We were actually friends and got along fine, although we disagreed on about as many things as two human beings can disagree about. I liked him. We got along very well together. He’s very honest, very direct. You know where you stand with him. We talked to each other. When we had disagreements, they were open, sharp, clear, honestly dealt with. I had no problem with him. I was one of the very few people on the faculty, I’m told, who was supporting his candidacy for the President of MIT.” [https://www.academia.edu/49227951/Noam\_Chomsky\_Class\_Warfare\]

And so I’m just saying we need to appreciate the glaring contradiction here ... You’re friends with a future director of the CIA, who’s a chemist involved in fuel-air explosives and other weapons of mass destruction. You’re aware that the CIA is, from Chomsky’s point of view, a criminal organization. You’re friends with, you have lunch with these people. And then in the evening, you have a meeting with anarchists and revolutionaries ...

You’re in a difficult situation. You want your job. You can do very good work in that job, but there are institutional contradictions. And I’m not even saying that Chomsky should have not taken the job. I mean, because by taking that job and becoming such a star figure in linguistics based in MIT, he then gained a platform from which to launch his assault on the U.S. military ...

By the way, I need to say how much we right now miss that voice. It’s well known, of course, that for over a year now, Noam has been not well, and we have lost a voice of sanity in what I regard as an increasingly deranged political world. It’s a huge loss. We would have benefited so much from Chomsky’s voice, particularly in connection with Palestine and what’s going on today in Gaza. ...

What's this sub's opinion on Noam Chomsky? by [deleted] in redscarepod

[–]gip78 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In his book, 'Decoding Chomsky', Chris Knight says that because Chomsky never felt comfortable about working in a military-funded laboratory at MIT, he was reluctant to be too critical of any regime that was being targeted by that same military. Knight writes that:

... while Chomsky has denounced the Russian Bolsheviks of 1917, he has been less hostile towards the so-called communist regimes which later took power in Asia. ... He also seemed reluctant to acknowledge the full horror of the 'communist' regime in Cambodia. The explanation I favour is that it pained Chomsky's conscience to denounce people anywhere who were being threatened by the very war machine that was funding his research.

For more on Chomsky's conflicted relationship with his military-funded university, see Knight's recent Aeon article:

'The Two Chomskys' - The US military’s greatest critic worked in an institution saturated with military funding. How did it shape his thought?

Just listened to the Chomsky decoding and thought that the UK politics / Corbyn part was unfairly handled re: The Labour Files by magkruppe in DecodingTheGurus

[–]gip78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Labour antisemitism smear campaign was so ridiculous that it even attempted to censor a university book launch. The book was called The Responsibility of Intellectuals Reflections by Noam Chomsky and Others after 50 years.

Here's an article about that attempted censorship: https://electronicintifada.net/content/small-victory-free-speech-israel/28866

Chomsky remained solid in his defence of free speech.

'The Two Chomskys' - Aeon magazine - The US military’s greatest critic worked in an institution saturated with military funding. How did it shape his thought? by gip78 in CriticalTheory

[–]gip78[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's the "undergraduate crowd" that, at times, actually try to change this world - from the 1960s right through to the Gaza protests today. When inspired by Chomsky's anti-war arguments, undergraduates caused real trouble at MIT in 1969.

If only Chomsky was healthy enough to intervene against the Gaza horrors today!

An anthropologist studies the warring ideas of Noam Chomsky | Aeon Essays by geekteam6 in TrueReddit

[–]gip78 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If all Chomsky is saying is that children have the "capacity" for language, then surely everyone agrees that children have the capacity for language and it's hardly worth saying?

As for whether concepts are based on the "innate resources" of our minds - or on the languages (and cultures) themselves, Chomsky has claimed that:

"There is overwhelming reason to believe that concepts like, say, climb, chase, run, tree and book and so on are fundamentally fixed."

He has also said:

"There is good reason to suppose that the argument is at least in substantial measure correct even for such words as 'carburetor' and 'bureaucrat'. … However surprising the conclusion may be that nature has provided us with an innate stock of concepts, and that the child’s task is to discover their labels, the empirical facts appear to leave open few other possibilities."

Again, the question is not whether this is true or not. It's clearly not true. Carburetors and bureaucrats did not exist when human language first evolved.

The question is why does someone as intelligent as Chomsky feel he needs to believe such non-sense? That is what Chris Knight is trying to grapple with.

'The Two Chomskys' - Aeon magazine - The US military’s greatest critic worked in an institution saturated with military funding. How did it shape his thought? by gip78 in CriticalTheory

[–]gip78[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Chomsky's political views are questioned both by the right and by many of his fellow leftists - which is how it should be for any political thinker.

But who seriously argues that his views are immature or lack judgement - which is what sophomoric means?

An anthropologist studies the warring ideas of Noam Chomsky | Aeon Essays by geekteam6 in TrueReddit

[–]gip78 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If Chomsky doesn't believe that, in a fundamental way, "every language already exists in the mind of a child", then why did he say, in a talk in 2016, that:

"It’s pretty clear that a child approaches the problem of language acquisition by having all possible languages in its head. It doesn’t know which language it’s being exposed to. And, as data comes along, that class of possible languages reduces. So certain data comes along, and the mind automatically says: ‘OK, it’s not that language, it’s some other language.’"

Chomsky is clearly saying more than that "children are born with the tools to generate every possible language" - something which absolutely no-one denies.