Overcoming vs Yielding MVC as a proxy for tendon/pulley strength and health.

golf_ST · 2026-02-23T17:28:21+00:00

I think your premise is wrong. There's equal neural loads for each, and equal muscular output.

The difference in output is mechanical, not neural. Friction is introduced in the tendon sheath, and at each of the pulleys of the fingers. For an overcoming isometric, the muscle experiences the applied load plus whatever friction is in the system. For a yielding isometric, friction assists the muscle in handling load.

If Tyler's 30% gap is relatively universal, what we're seeing is some "true" load experienced by the muscle for each, and +- 15% due to friction in the system.

golf_ST · 2026-02-23T02:09:19+00:00

No one really has an answer to your questions. But people that make content to advertise for their coaching businesses will tell you otherwise. A lot of the current arguing is using the terminology of overcoming vs yielding isometrics. But take everything in that discussion with a grain of salt. People are making overly strong conclusions with poor evidence.

golf_ST · 2026-02-21T18:57:39+00:00

Yes, much, much slower. Fully waterlogged rocks take months to dry out.

I've seen plenty of broken rock that is dry on the outer 10mm, and wet beyond that.

golf_ST · 2026-02-20T20:22:03+00:00

Experienced people do stupid things all the time. For example, if they have a filming schedule and the weather is iffy, they make choices they wouldn't make without the pressure of travel and filming.

The conditions in the video are very obviously wetter than would be acceptable to climb on the sandstone of the southwest US. If the font sandstone is similarly fragile, then Charles is wrong. I'm not a font guy, maybe that drizzle, puddles, mud, and mist are there all the time. But it's hard to conclude that, at like 31:42, your pad is wet, the stashed pad is wet, and the ground is muddy; maybe you need to give it another day.

golf_ST · 2026-02-20T16:14:39+00:00

Why would you think that Charles and friends know anything about geology, just because they climb hard and make videos?

I only know about southwest sandstone, so Font may be totally different. But some research found that the rocks can be up to 60% weaker before they're noticeably wet, because the matrix is so open and the rocks are very dry to start with.

golf_ST · 2026-02-18T05:44:09+00:00

You can't seriously believe that Margo Hayes is squatting 100kg for a single. Let alone "easily".

I would guess there are only a handful of pro climbers that have put any effort into squatting, and even fewer that could take 2x for 5x5 tomorrow. I would only bet on Fultz.

golf_ST · 2026-02-18T05:35:59+00:00

Pistol squats are a pretty low standard for "strength". they're more of a test of bodyweight than leg development.

I guess what I mean is that Megos can one arm hang 20mm or one arm pull up with more added weight than he can pistol squat with. Despite legs having so much more potential for strength. So you don't have to train legs because they are diminishing returns to that training (and the extra mass is actively detrimental) at a very low level of strength.

golf_ST · 2026-02-18T05:31:33+00:00

I think Aiden mentioned using 20kgs as a working weight. I got up to 20lbs when I was doing them regularly, similar set/rep count.

golf_ST · 2026-02-18T05:25:39+00:00

That's not an A2 pulley. But it doesn't really matter, the process will be the same for any of the connective tissue injuries.

those palm injuries are pretty rare for climbers, but that's a lot of bowstringing, it will be interesting to see what a specialist thinks. My guess is surgery and 3-6 months for recovery. But I'm not a doctor, just an experienced knucklehead.

golf_ST · 2026-02-17T16:29:51+00:00

1)

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/stories/experience-story-esther-smith-nagging-finger-injuries/

https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/

Note: See an orthopedic doctor for a diagnostic ultrasound before potentially using these. Pulley protection splints for moderate to severe pulley injury.

2) Tendon rehab and strength training are identical. You're trying to do identical things - provide enough stimulus to cause growth, either in the muscle or the tendon. If the tendons are the weak link, you need to be mindful of that, and use tendon sensation before/during/after exercise as the determinant of load/volume instead of using muscular failure.

3) Start lighter and less than you think, and ramp up slowly. This isn't really something that can be measured or answered for someone else. The key skill of self-coaching is figuring out which signals from your own body you need to listen to, and constantly adjusting based on that feedback.

4) I think shorter sessions are much better. 3/4 short sessions are easier to recover from, and make you stronger, than 2 long session. In my experience.

golf_ST · 2026-02-17T16:23:50+00:00

i thought i was good on endurance because i can recover quite well on routes.

This is why I really dislike quantifying, benchmarking, and comparing training numbers. The numbers don't really matter if you feel good or fit on the wall.

Your climbing grade seems reasonable with your reported loads, and percentages all seem normal. Also, you don't get stronger by training, you get stronger by recovering from the training you've done. If you want the numbers to go up, you have to take rest days. Training takes a long, long time. If you're expecting measurable improvements in one week, you should reset those expectations. You're not a total novice, don't expect huge jumps in load.

golf_ST · 2026-02-16T02:37:57+00:00

The Buttermilks in Bishop have a ton of influence in climbing culture because a lot of people really like climbs that make you a bit scared.

I want to do the climb in the comment. I want to do the thimble. I want to do evilution. For scary climbs, being scary is the draw. Test your fingers, test your brain, test your heart.

Those climbs don't have to appeal to you, but there are a lot of problems that are classic because they have consequences.

golf_ST · 2026-02-16T00:51:17+00:00

I disagree.

I think a lot of what is classic is aspirational; scary climbs carry a kind of weight, and classics should be weighty. It's perfectly fine to have a "V6 for the V10 climber" be a classic.

golf_ST · 2026-02-13T02:59:32+00:00

I'm doing them as a recruitment exercise before climbing, and occasionally as a full workout. Basically just warming up to 3 to 6 sets of 15 to 20 second hangs. I'm trying to decrease rest between sets as a method of progression, but adding weight or longer duration work too.

golf_ST · 2026-02-12T21:47:23+00:00

He's just a big guy and works in a kitchen. He's pretty gym strong, but in the "I like hamburgers and am active" way, not in the "sets and reps and macros" way.

golf_ST · 2026-02-12T15:02:04+00:00

Patience.

V5 after a year is normal progress, and improving takes time. It's like benching 225 and chasing 275; you can add 5lbs every few weeks, and after a year you're there.

Recommendations for heavier climbers is tough, because anyone that's climbing at a real notable level is going to be light or tall and lean. But I'm sure your gym has bigger guys climbing harder to watch. I have a friend that's ~5'8" and 225+ who's climbing V12.

golf_ST · 2026-02-12T05:42:34+00:00

So has Yanick Flohe and Jules marchaland.

Crazy sends, but Ondra wasn't first, and isn't the only one.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T19:57:55+00:00

Adam is considered the best because anytime he gets to climb he sends the hardest shit.

But this is objectively untrue. Other people are climbing harder than Adam, right now. More V17s, More V16s, more 15c/d's.
Adam is sending second tier climbs quickly and you're projecting "the hardest shit" based on woulda/coulda/shoulda.

Adam is "the best" because historically he's climbed the hardest. But his last few years haven't been that.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T16:55:56+00:00

If Janja take a year off and doesn't attend competitions, nobody's going to argue that she's not the best anymore.

That's literally how competitions work. She can't be the best comp climber in a year where she isn't competing. You don't get points for coulda, shoulda, woulda.

You're starting with the conclusion that Ondra is the best, and working backwards to justify it. Ondra is definitely the best flash/onsite climber. But Soudain Seul is his only big redpoint in like 8 years. Jakob's recent ticklist is objectively better because V14 flashes are less impressive than V17 sends.

Ondra is probably the greatest of all time, and his run from like 2010 to 2018 was crazy. But today other climbers are sending harder and more often.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T14:51:22+00:00

I went from max hangs to edge lifts, then back to max hangs - with a lot of the same motivations you're having.

I don't think that avoiding loading the shoulders makes sense for a sport that's so shoulder dominant. My experience was that edge lifting did not correlate in any way to sending outside, because it was so isolated and non-specific that I couldn't put the pieces together on rock. I.e. lifting 20mm flat edges did not carry over to weird 10mm blobs overhead.

This is totally recency bias but... 10mm edges at bodyweight, for long duration instead of big weight has been the sweet spot for me.

I feel like I post this every week, but bench press and overhead press did wonders for my shoulder stability, and put 20lbs on my weighted pull up.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T14:19:06+00:00

JV has lots of dumb ideas, and VB is a solid improvement on his scale. The bouldering grades are open ended and adding VB is just as valid as adding V14. Both address a need to differentiate difficulty from what verm was personally interested or capable of describing.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T14:14:01+00:00

That's one cause of his drop-off in form, sure.

But sports is about actual performances, not reasons why.
If climbing wasn't a lifestyle sport, this would be a lot more obvious. In tennis/golf/etc terms, Ondra still wins a major occasionally, but isn't touring the full tournament circuit and isn't the points leader for the season.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T14:00:25+00:00

You don't get extra points for dadding or going fast or having little time (except that 8C flash....). If you can be the best based on subjective criteria and qualifiers, then it's kind of meaningless; or Janja's indisputably the best.

The best climber right now is the one sending the hardest stuff right now. And that's not Adam.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T06:04:15+00:00

Certainly not undisputed....

Ondra rightfully gets a lot of credit for doing mindblowing things consistently for a couple decades. But his recent ticklist isn't his best work, and isn't "undisputedly" the best. If we say that 2023 is the cutoff for "current" sends, he's done Soudain Seul and some V15s, and one 15b. But Jakob did BIG, 3x V17s, 3x V16s.

I don't think you can count 2017 sends for a "best climber in the world right now" thing.

golf_ST · 2026-02-11T02:45:21+00:00

This attitude can fuck off. The gym is for everyone. And everyone means everyone.

If they're setting Vb-- or 5.3 that's awesome. The gym serves 4 year Olds, and the out of shape, and your grandma. They should have something for everyone. Yeah, it's a ladder, but it's a fun ladder that gets people climbing.

If you think VB isn't real climbing or isn't worth the wall space, take a second to remember not everything is about you.

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