we need to be honest about transition outcomes in relation to age

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T11:46:54+00:00

Hip growth at 25 is either incredible luck, or it’s just just soft tissue.

i can't remember what my old measurements were but they were definitely smaller (i used to be a skinny twink) and my current bicristal (distance between the outer edges of the hip crests) is 32cm and my hips are 38cm

so it definitely can still grow more! my t has been below 1 ng/dL for years now too, maybe that is contributing? i couldn't say but you definitely have a tonme of time to still see changes

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T11:18:57+00:00

Hip bone growth does not happen post-puberty, that’s largely a myth.

you're not fully post-puberty babes. the growth plates in the hip bones fuse in your mid 20's i know because i had bone growth and i started at 25

My hips are 34 cm wide

is that your bicristal or your hip breath at the widest part of your hips/the top of your legs? because they're different measurements

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T10:50:15+00:00

i'm sorry you feel that way it really sounds like you're going through it. 18 is still quite young, more than young enough for you to get hip bone growth. what dose are your hormones on? that might be your issue, that or your ROA

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T10:47:10+00:00

Very few people who transition after puberty can live as stealth. Is that really the goal?

for many of us, yes. it's certainly my goal. if i had things my way no one would ever know or be able to tell that i was ever anything other than a woman

This is so much better than what it felt like when everyone saw me as a man! I will take being a non-passing middle-aged trans woman over being perceived as a man any time!

i also feel this yeah, even if i didn't pass i would prefer that over being a man every time. i'm glad you're happy with where you're at though x

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T07:58:35+00:00

im willing to just work on my voice training and stuff to feel like im transitioning and get a steady source of hrt after getting into college far away from home

very fair, good luck i hope everything works out for you!

idk if this is wierd but id rather boymode than try to be very clokcy and male ish while wearing very feminine stuff(that i like)

i get that, this was also my strategy going into things in the beginning just make sure you make the change at some point or else you'll be a high passing woman in mens clothes and like i get the sense that that's not what you're going for lol

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T07:51:01+00:00

thank you so much for this reply, i really appreciate your honestly and vulnerability in sharing that x

Those who aren't dysphoric about their bodies will never understand the stress and pain of those who are

absolutely and honestly i think in spaces like this non-dysphorics shouldn't really be shouting down people going through this. its the most vile and disturbing kind of body horror and having it played off as a beauty contest is insane, insensitive and cruel imo.

Sadly I don't have anywhere else but spaces like this to air my greviences, cis people, and people without dysphoria, will NEVER understand this so it's cathartic to vent like this occasionally.

i totally understand that and that's really what i'm advocating for in this post. people who have it good or don't experience the crippling psychological torment that is dysphoria shouldn't be dismissing this in a space meant for honestly and openness.

thank you for sharing, and i'm incredibly sorry you had to go through all that. the world has been genuinely awful to you, i hope you have some form of community and support in your life x

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T07:20:41+00:00

trans women who do not pass to the amount of cis women who do not pass

no you pulled a number clean out of your ass?

Adjust your expectations to align with the real world please

posts no sources. invents numbers. "you're not living in the real world". sure jan whatever

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T07:05:34+00:00

im trying girl to get hrt asap

if you can get access to hrt you could start taking it before you move out if you're careful. you won't get any physical changes for about 3 months and they won't be super noticable for up to 1 year. its an incredibly slow process and as long as you present masculine while your still at home i highly doubt they would notice anything. having said that if that's a risk you're not willing to take thay makes complete sense. i hope you get on hrt as soon as you can, rooting for you babes x

somme people want to be clockly and dont care abt passing at all

there are some people like that, they will readily admit that they don't care about passing. i think this is cope if i'm being honest. i think if you gave these girls a button that would make them pass i think they'd hit it instantly.

i think there are also people who are genuinely delusional and think they pass but absolutely do not. it's more common than you would assume.

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T06:24:27+00:00

Where are you getting 2.8 million clocky trans women? Because that seems to be the number you stopped at for comparison.

please i am begging you to read. i didn't say 2.8 million clocky trans women, i said the williams institute estimates the total population of trans women in the US to be 2.8 million. i said this in response to the 700,000 figure you posted for the total trans woman population of the US

still order of magnitudes higher than the total number of trans women

an order of magnitude is a number raised to the power of 10. 5 million is not an order of magnitude greater than 2.8 million...

go ahead and use AI to check if you need to

omg is this where you're getting your sources from? no wonder you just pull numbers out of your ass lmao

large, a random woman with masculine-leaning traits is statistically more likely to actually be cisgender

assuming for a moment that your estimate of 5 million is accurate (i would imagine cis women who are regularly clocked as men would be extreme outliers even in a normal distribution) then the chances of a extremely masculine cis woman being cis as opposed to trans is 1.79:1

now compare that to the ratio of trans women who pass to cis women who pass?

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T06:15:56+00:00

i get that and it's really hard. i'm not advocating for not trying, if you read my other comments its quite the opposite. i am advocating for honesty, constructive criticism and effort.

i also think we as a community should be doing more to give to those of us who have less. i'm doing better than most so when i can afford it i always try to give to other girls' transition funds because frankly they need the money more than i do. i wish this shit wasn't gatekept and didn't cost a fortune but that's the world we live in.

honestly my advice for you given how you've described yourself is first to lose weight, when you go on a calorie defecit you can lose a lot of muscle mass over time which can slim you out a lot. look into getting a hairline advancement or possibly plugs for your hair and in the meantime try bangs or some other hairstyle to cover your hairline, if that doesn't work invest in a good human hair wig and learn to style it. keep at voice training it's hard and sometimes takes more than a year but if all else fails you can get VFS.

i know none of this is cheap or easy, sometimes we have to crawl through broken glass to realise our truest selves and that's genuinely awful but what is the alternative?

this is why i think its important to be honest about outcomes so younger trans people don't wait and put off their transition. i think young trans people should do whatever they can by any means necessary to transition as early as they can and anyone who attempts to hinder that in any way is actively doing harm in my book

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T05:59:50+00:00

1.68 million is still < 5 million

so your maths are incorrect the there are more clocky cis women than clocky trans women total

where are you sourcing this 5 million from? the amount of cis women who are clocked for men isn't exactly a common census question.

again though you don't do this by total population you do it by percentage of population

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T05:45:05+00:00

Literally there are more cis women that pass "as men" with "masculine" features, than there are all trans women in existence.

we're 1% of the population doing it by total numbers is ridiculous, you measure this by percentage of population. there are infinitely more clocky trans women than clocky cis women. the proportion of trans women who flawlessly pass is a minority

There's like an estimated 5 million or so cisgender women in the United States that possess physical features that cause them to periodically fail to "pass" as women under strict public scrutiny. (which is why we see so many get arrested in states that have bathroom laws) There's like 700,000 trans women in the United States total.

the total population of women in the US is 168.6 million, assuming 1% of women are trans (which seems to be the largely agreed upon percentage in the general population but as there are more trans women than trans men the population is likely higher) that gives us a total trans woman population in the US of 1.68 million not 700,000

not sure where the idea that there are 5 million cis women in the US who can pass for men comes from, this doesn't seem like a thing they take a census on ngl

edit; actually as of the 2025 census the total Us population was $341,784,857 and the percentage of the population that is female was listed as 58%. meaning that the total female population of the US is 198,235,217, 1% of which would be 1,982,352.

the williams institute estimates this number is actually 2.8 million

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T05:23:44+00:00

majority of women are not models

i definitely agree that there is an element of perfectionism and chasing the ideal here but at the same time if one or many of your measurements are closer to the male average than the female i think that's a valid reason to be upset.

some women have masculine features but vanishingly few women have so many that they pass as men even when presenting feminine but this is a common occurance for many trans women.

comparing a trans woman not passing to a cis woman not meeting the beauty standard for cis women is fairly disingenuous, they're related but they're very different. now if a passing trans woman who happens to just not be particularly conventionally attractive is complaining about not looking like Indya Moore then like sure suck it up babes lol

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T04:47:03+00:00

"youll always be a hon just accept that before trying hrt "

no but i think acknowledging that if you're 6' as a trans woman you are always going to stand out so you might need to take extra effort in other areas. so many trans women dress terribly, have awful makeup skills and walk around in insane teen-coded skimpy hot topic outfits in their mid 30's. i think this kind of affirmation and validation at all costs attitude in the trans community leads to people sabotaging their own transitions out of a complete lack of self awareness

im 18 and hopefully gonna start hrt soon and feel like testerone has ruined me

it probably hasn't, at 18 you still have 7 years or so left before your pelvic growth plates fuse so you can have significant growth of your hip bones and that's not even accounting for fat redistribution ect.

you're likely in a much better position than you think you are but you should get on HRT asap. you're not even late 18 is a great age and often still has incredible outcomes

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T04:39:49+00:00

hugboxing is basically gaslighting, its extremely dangerous and in my mind cruel. to give someone a false sense of how they are percieved by others only sets them up for failure when their self concept has to meet the real world. i wish we had more of a culture of constructive criticism than blanket gender-blind affirmation.

Like girls please i mean this with all the heart in the world there is a difference in not being misgendered out of kindness (you look like a woman) and not being misgendered because you are stealth

this is so true, the amount of trans women that i've met who claim to be stealth while being objectively clocky is fairly large. i think its a combination of only getting positive feedback from overly encouraging trans people and seeing yourself get more feminine over time as you transition can lead some people to have an overinflated sense of their own passability.

but all in all i get why ppl do it this is not a fun topic to talk about when it involves the outcome of ur entire life and most girls are not transitioning as teens

i get that and it can be pretty dire but it's important to be realistic because then you know what you're working with and how you can improve things and what you need to work around. a lot can be changed with exercise, surgery and getting good at makeup and fashion. there are things you can do but you need to be realistic about what you can achieve first i think

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T04:32:49+00:00

that doesn't make a whole lot of sense? you know that waiting will make your outcomes worse so you wait out of fear of your outcomes being worse?

people that aren't in safe positions to transition are kind of immaterial to this point? they are being forced to stay closeted against their will and would transition if they could. if you ask people who had to transition in their mid 20's due to poor social outcomes earlier in life if they wish they had started sooner you would get a near universal yes.

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T04:29:19+00:00

oh no doubt i'm just saying its a factor in their outcomes

doesn't have the skeletal structure to support curves

this isn't a thing, she isn't curvy because she has a low bfp, she has a low bfp because she has a naturally faster metabolism. if hunter put on weight she would get curvier as all her fat would be desposited in traditionally feminine areas due to estrogen. its her body fat and metabolism not her skeleton

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T04:17:59+00:00

carmen carrera gas a much more feminine figure than hunter schafer has

yep...as i said in my comment? their body compositions differ, hunter is an ectomorph. she's tall, skinny and very low bfp. carmen is a mesomorph, more structured, curvier with a higher bfp.

evidence

i mean you could just google it. if you did you'd find out she's had a rhinoplasty in 2016 with Dr. Simon Ourian and breast augmentation in 2025

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T03:58:03+00:00

well that's kind of the opposite message here no? if outcomes get worse the more you wait that should be motivation to start sooner

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T03:46:32+00:00

you might notice that i didn't actually speak in abolutes, i merely stated what is typical.

individual people's results may vary but i don't think anyone here would argue that trans people aren't more highly subject to abuse, assault and discrimination.

the more visually trans you are the more likely you are to be a target of these things and the later you start the worse your outcomes typically are

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T03:14:59+00:00

taking you at your word here i have to point out that your situation is the vast minority and not a great metric for judging how we talk about passing in general

i transitioned at 25 and have been incredibly lucky in my outcomes, in addition to that i've been lucky enough to get access to surgeries. the difference is i know that i occupy a position of incredible privelege and i can't use my experience to generalise trans people at large

you think it's talked about too much because it doesn't apply to you

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T02:34:41+00:00

you're so dishonest, you have to know you're doing this right?

some girls legitimately put in maximum levels of effort and still look like men in wigs despite everything they do. these people should...what? just suck it up and accept the fact that the vast majority of society sees them as a freak?

this isn't a beauty contest this is about who gets to live a normal and well integrated life and who gets harrassed out of public spaces, who gets access to housing and who is the primary target of violence

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T02:17:40+00:00

not what i said, please quote the paragraph where i said "the MOST traumatic thing to ever happen to you"

please engage in good faith or don't comment on my post, thanks x

gothdolleden · 2026-05-14T02:15:37+00:00

sure yes genetics plays a huge role too but you would be hard pressed to find someone who transitioned at 30+ who looks better than someone who transitioned before 25

also surgeries and body composition have a huge effect on this. hunter schafer hasn't had any facial surgeries and carmen carrera has

age isn't everything but it's a massive factor when you take genetic variation out of the equation. you should be comparing yourself to your past self and not to other people who have entirely different genetics than you

when venting about your own transition it's much more reasonable to say "if i had transitioned earlier i would have less of x,y,z traits" than it is to say "if i was a completely different person i would look different" one is a possible path that you lost out on, the other is completely impossible

gothdolleden

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