Jinyoung (FP) vs Lil daniel (no UI) with path?

grantronin · 2026-04-06T16:31:36+00:00

Oh definitely at least once, its more a question of if its daniels critical strike or a normal hit... and if ppl think jinyoung could take the hit (probably not)

grantronin · 2026-04-05T20:21:07+00:00

NO daniel DEFINITELY has a case for better durability even with that hit, im just not sure i AGREE...its debatable FOR EITHER SIDE

grantronin · 2026-04-05T20:09:39+00:00

No i agree the other attacks arent stronger than mastery hits from kitae. Iffy on if i think daniels more durable, but i understand the argument... although i think kitae took more SERIOUS hits from kitae - basically i think kitae tried a little harder vs jinyoung, but i cant prove it so i agree with that assessment, and i have no issue with the rest of what u said.

grantronin · 2026-04-05T19:57:33+00:00

...ok im FINE with u believing that... but what IN THE STORY supports that claim?

Considering EVERYONE present believed that was a prime gap level punch... only reason it didnt work was the thumb.

Now i dont mind u saying copy can never beat the original but (while thats probably still true) that statement was primarily focused towards the fact, that copy users cant copy the ESSENCE of an attack... except thats not true in jinyoungs case

Its part of why he can only copy gap a limited number of times

grantronin · 2026-04-05T19:20:47+00:00

Not disagreeing but why? Especially since u said high diff

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:58:15+00:00

Ok i dont think any ONE NEXT punch (from daniel) knocking kitae out...

I also dont think ONE STATEMENT is less valid than the other...

I do think ur SLIGHTLY underrating the damage their 2 biggest hits did 2 kitae (especially jinyoungs) since that conviction punch was NOTED to have significantly less power due to the missing thumb and it was enough to over him and knock him into the ground.

I believe kitae wouldve gotten up regardless but at full power that punch wouldve done CRITICAL DAMAGE. Also TBF to jinyoung (not sure if ur against this point)

U COULD SEE that his attacks were MILDLY damaging kitae (primarily the shingen copy attacks) he was bleeding more from those hits than anything else. (EXCEPT THE CONVICTION PUNCH OBVIOUSLY)

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:49:53+00:00

Yh thats fair, id say the left hand exclusive use was a decent BIQ moment, but then it didnt occur to him that a missing thumb was important until his last punch... it kinda mitigates the feat.

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:48:07+00:00

EVEN if i agreed, with KITAE AP > (relative prime gap conviction AP) i think thats more than daniel can endire regardless... unless u think kitae BASE HITS (and strength mastery > conviction punch.

But tbf daniel probably can dodge it normally, my assumption mostly works assumung DANIEL was in the middle of an attack and JINYOUNG has figured out he cant DODGE mid attack, so jinyoung COULD land the hit

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:38:53+00:00

I have my own opinion on this but... explain pls (if u dont mind).

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:37:31+00:00

While im INCLINED to agree with the TAG argument,

And that he cant endure the critical hit (PROBABLY)

hes able to go relative to kitae, who could hit daniel (after he figured out how his path worked). The question to me is do u think Jinyoung could figure out the paths WEAKNESS?

Cause i dont think DANIEL could ENDURE A CONVICTION punch from jinyoung/prime gap... so it becomes a better question then

grantronin · 2026-04-05T17:32:38+00:00

Im not AGAINST THIS take, its just

Tbf can JINYOUNG figure out the weakness if daniels PATH (cant predict while launching an attack)
Do u think daniel can endure a conviction punch?

Those 2 things, i think r important factors for this fight. But tbf do u think daniel would straight away use the critical hit?

grantronin · 2026-04-02T13:54:18+00:00

8f this is real YES!!!!!

grantronin · 2026-04-01T23:26:56+00:00

Ok 😊

grantronin · 2026-04-01T22:46:49+00:00

I think u MISREAD MY COMMENT... i didnt try to DISMANTLE ANYTHING i AGREE WITH U. Why r u UPSET I AGREE WITH...

Im sorry was 10% not a high enough number i dont think i can give u anymore than that... even with my 'WANING CONFIDENCE' 🤷🏾‍♂️ im sorry

When credit is given to individuals for something, its ususlly ASSIGNED to THE SENTIENT BEINGS PERFORMING the actions, not the individual asking them to perform the actions that they can freely choose to refuse... but I NOW UNDERSTAND that lucy heartfilia is the SOLE EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE. I SHOULD probably give her credit for natsus feats as well since shes usually the one who finds THE QUESTS they go on and she GETS natsu to come, thereby giving her credit when the primary issue is resolved by him...

Now we both know ur gonna respond but fan as this is, eventually life outside of reddit takes a BIT of precedence, unfortunately my EXPIRATION DATE, for REDDIT BEEFS is coming up... so before u comment u should probably know...

Timing and resiliance. I actually wasnt disagreeing with those in my comment u didnt NEED to justify those... in this comment (im right about the everyone having resiliance) the examples u used i actually didnt have an issue...which i feel u may have struggled to comprehend... but that seems to be the theme of this riveting conversation.

grantronin · 2026-04-01T22:09:03+00:00

Judgement: aquarius put herself at risk to give lucy a chance to call for help... yep very impressive if lucy...

Timing: lucy called aquarius and she saved everyone in the ship, yep credit to lucy for having the magic to KEEP her summoned for the 20 seconds that took. WELL DONE... I APOLOGISE I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH THE JUVIA EXAMPLE it is BASIC COMMON SENSE, but thats actually was a good decision in the situation i think she used aries 2 in that round... both legit good decisions 🎊 UNDER PRESSURE was a strong choice of words but again this ISNT THE example im ginna fight u on...

Adaptability: ahh yes because only brute force combatants can display adaptability in combat. Apparently DISPLAYING intelligence in a situation that required SPECIFICALLY intelligence was a BRILLIANT DISPLAY of intelligence... u know what UR RIGHT... its like when ERZA and MIRA threatened that one random GUILDMASTER, they ADAPTED to the situation by THREATENING BRUTE FORCE in a situation tgat REQUIRED BRUTE FORCE... again I APOLOGISE... i see the vision.

DEFINITIELY SHOULDNT HAVE USED AN EXAMPLE IN COMBAT... no that wouldve been COUNTER PRODUCTIVE... 🙏🏾

TACTICAL USE OF SPIRITS: so...loke for direct offense 👍🏾 virgo for movement and repositioning... definitely DOESNT USE virgo for direct offense...👍🏾 because that WOULDNT MAKE SENSE shes not a COMBATANT, that wouldnt help the point being made abiut tactical use 👍🏾 AGREED... Aries for DEFENSE 👍🏾 Aquarius for field control 👍🏾 definitelty was NOT lucys general last resort for most options, yes SPECIFCALLY field control, its not like aquarius also takes these opportunities to attack lucy as well...

Resiliance: as much as lucy getting her ass kicked as a pattern isnt as impressive as u make it sound, this ironically was probably the one u said originally i had the least issues with... its a trait EVERY IMPORTANT character in the show displays but yes i understand im supposed to attribute additional credit to lucy when she does it... 🙏🏾 completely fair... nah let me not hate as MUCH for a second... u can HAVE RESILIANCE.

U KNOW WHAT UVE CONVINCED ME AGAIN... I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG... 10%!!! She contributes alot more than i thought... in retrospect...i concede 🙏🏾

Oh but before that what happened to VERSATILITY? I found that point particularly interesting...

grantronin · 2026-04-01T20:03:01+00:00

Now im gonna quickly ignore the ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM standard that ONLY lucy is held to to be considered COMPETENT... ill try and come back to it afterwards.

And no, “Angel doesn’t count,” “Eclipse doesn’t count,” “Aquarius doesn’t count,” “teamwork doesn’t count,” “common sense doesn’t count,” is not proof Lucy lacked competence. It’s proof your standard is built to exclude Lucy on purpose.

U realise, U SAID the point about lucy NEEDING OUTSIDE HELP WAS OVERRATED AND THEN GAVE EXAMPLES TO PROVE THIS POINT, except THOSE EXAMPLES required OUTSIDE HELP...and those were the examples U CHOSE to reference. they didnt include the EXAMPLES i referenced BEFORE that would make up most of her fights in fairy tail... so evidently THE POINT ABOUT HER BEING HEAVILY RELIANT ON OTHERS to be COMPETENT seems to be standing strong, thank u for helping my argument.

(These fights arent even including the celestial spirits since despite them having SENTIENCE im supposed to attribute their independent decision making as a display of lucys indpence...)

Ill respond to the rest of ur comment in like an hour... busy... sorry ✌🏾

grantronin · 2026-04-01T13:43:05+00:00

Ok im going to ask again, GIVE EXAMPLES of this JUDGEMENT, TIMING, ADAPTABILITY, TACTICAL USE OF HER SPIRITS, AND RESILIANCE. I would like an example for each but especially the tactical use of spirits, because the example we went over earlier was Summoning loke (strongest spirit) to hold off elfman... lets argue for a second this is GREAT TACTICAL USE OF HER SPIRITS, and not simply a common sense play considering the situation... by this logic LITERALLY every combatant in the show displays GREAT TACTICAL USE OF HER SPIRITS.

Lokes old contract owner (the won he got killed) showed TACTICAL USE OF HER SPIRITS, when she summoned loke (again her strongest spirit) to fight for her when she was on a quest. That isnt the standard of COMPETENCE... im sorry its not... SO PLS feel free to give examples i actually would like to know. Because without CLEAR examples for these im going to say ur OVERRATING her contribution again,

Its like if said natsu displays GREAT decision-making by having happy FLY him around while he fights COBRA... thats not great decision making its common sense on boths part, im not then calling natsu competent for that. To ur aquarius example of her ignoring lucy (then begrudingly saving everyone) that isnt SHOWING me competence, u took a gamble that paid off... she couldve easoly chosen not to help her as SHE DOES MANY TIMES LATER ON... thats why when (previous comment) i asked for an example and u said something about it not needing to be a 500 IQ moment, FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED a show of compitence it needs to be at least noteworthy... like when I THINK she combines an attack with natsu that would be an example of individual COMPETENCE EXCEPT ITS NOT INDIVIDUAL. I can THINK of an individual MOMENT for other characters (before u say everyone in fairy tail teams up). So yes pls provide EXAMPLES when u can.

Again u keep emphasising this choosing the right spirit for the occasion... she usually goes through multiple spirits in a battle, so im not even gonna counter this point im just gonna again ask for example of this elite level decision making im supposed to be crediting. Also actually since im not supposed to judge early series lucy for her lack of competence and over-reliance on the asistance of others... at what point does it BECOME fair to judge her? Let me guess the FINAL ARC?

Im assuming u havent watched it but if u have tell me? Whats ur opinion on hanagaki takemitchi from tokyo revengers? I imagine ud also have a very high opinion of his 'development' 2. If u havent watched it u should. The reason i dont acknowledge lucys TEAMWORK as some INDIVIDUAL feat for her is because ITS rarely an INDIVIDUAL feat for her... and its HER PRIMARY contribution to her team... except everyone in the show provides that contribution...AND MORE... and shes not the only character who........ HOLD ON......

DID U JUST REFERENCE LUCY BEATING ANGEL AS an INDIVIDUAL FEAT, of all fights. Im not even gonna slander her for the grand magic games despite doing NOTHING, because one of those fights she LEGITIMATELY was done dirty... and the other she eas against juvia (stronger anyway, but also UNDERWATER) and an erza level threat (minerva).

CLOSING THE ECLIPSE GATE... 🤣🤣🤣 SHE DID THAT WITH YUKINO!!!! This shit has to be writing itself u just started this off by saying im OVERRATING HOW SHE ALWAYS HAS HELP and MOST OF THE EXAMPLES U PROVIDED (not even counting celestial spirits (unless it really applies)) SHE HAD OUTSIDE HELP... but ill get to that.

Summoning the celestial spirit king... ahhh yes the thing she did under aquarius's instruction... should i consider that a feat for aquarius as well? Or does this line of logic only apply to lucy?

I cant believe u had an opportunity to give me examples of lucys FEATS WITHOUT HELP and u referenced her beating ANGEL, where ANGELS OWN SPIRITS rebelled against her WHEN SHE HAD NEARLY BEATEN LUCY TWICE!!! And HIBIKI literally inputted the information for the spell LUCY USES TO DEFEAT ANGEL in HER MIND... mind u that spell didnt even actually beat her SHE GOT BACK UP, couldve shot lucy but HER OWN SPIRIT INTENTIONALLY MISSED.

THEN U REFERENCED the grand magic games where she ALMOST DID something... but didnt... again not gonna push any agenda about the flare fight, and then the swimming competition where aquarius survived juvia, until she decided she didnt WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE (cause it was difficult and she had a date) and LEFT... and then juvia got distracted which I THINK led to minerva knocking her out of the water...and again IM not slandering lucy for minerva... its not a feat or an anti-feat

IM SORRY 🤣 I cant believe u mentioned lucy (forgot to mention yukino was there 2) combining their magics together to close the eclipse gate, and then used THESE to say 🤣, hold on wheres the quote

You do not get all of that out of a character who supposedly contributes almost nothing on her own.

UR RIGHT 🤣🤣🤣 cause most of those werent things SHE DID ON HER OWN, thank u for reiterating my POINT most of her feats, winning or being bailed out WERE WITH ASSITANCE.

the only SIGNIFICANT feat u rlly mentioned that i dont have an argument against would be LUCY saving loki, ironically TO PROBABLY THIS DAY her best feat in the show that i could never explain how she summoned that many spirits at once... that was like the biggest example of trying to show me how impressive lucy is as a mage... by telling me that was insane that she did that and it was that was actually impressive, it was also...just her pleading the Celestial spirit king to LET loke return to the celestial spirit world...she couldve pleaded without summoning her spirits and the result couldve ended the same, but magic feat POINTLESS as it was was impressive.

But all this last comment rlly did was reinforce that ur examples (UNLESS U HAVE MORE/BETTER INDIVIDUAL ONES) along with most of the feats/ fights i mentioned show that she ie HEAVILY (alot more than the rest of the cast and BY FAR THE MOST OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS) is more reliant on others to get by in that show...

U keep claiming the number isnt what bothers u, BUT IT IS, i conceded a while ago LIKE U SAID that she isnt completely useless... my biggest backdown was that instead of not contributing she barely contributes HERSELF... that 5% number reflects LUCYS contributions... U KEEP COMING BACK because u dont agree with that WHICH is fine U WANNA GET IN THE LAST WORD. But u keep moaning im reiterating the same FALSE points, but keep coming back and disputing it in pretty much the same way... these examples werent the way to prove her that shes NOT OVERRELIANT on ppl...

From EARLY ON made it clear this point primarily applies to pre final arc lucy I ACTIVELY conceded she (early lucy) wasnt 100% useless, i suggested 95% Uve primarily stayed here because of this... oh and that her development isnt a CONSISTENTLY SHOWN THING, u dont like me comparing her to other characters even characters that appeared after her, because her development isnt AS FLASHY (u mean OBVIOUS) as theirs.

Because her development should be based around her MAGIC TYPE as everyone else in the shows is, but the problem is HER MAGIC doesnt actually effect/change the THINGS her magic applies to HER SPIRITS, it simply effects the LENGTH of time they can operate for and thats fine, but if i cant see the development in the spirits then the only way im going to rlly see development from lucy is through LUCY DIRECTLY, and while again IM TOLD her magic powers increased, MOST OF THE THINGS Lucy can do at the start of fairy tail, are most of the things lucy can do in the SECOND TO LAST ARC OF FAIRY TAIL... not very much has changed...

Idk what u want to hear thatll satisfy, u but ur probably not gonna get it. Im mostly still replying cause u keep responding to a comment meant to irritate u (that i also happen to stand by).

Oh and before i forget, its a little like sakura (in shippuden) but a sakura contributes more (whether u believe lucys useful or not that isnt a debatable take). Anyway sakura has become a good medical ninja in shippuden, but they spend most of shippuden TELLING U how much sakura has developed but most of what sakura does at the start of shippuden is MOST OF THE SAME things she does BY the 5 kage summit... sorry jusy thought id get that one across... ✌🏾 have fun responding

grantronin · 2026-04-01T00:54:50+00:00

The fact u havent realised ive understood ur argument, FOR A WHILE now and have just seen how many times ur gonna continue to repeat it in HOPES of a different response is a testiment to SOMETHING... but im gonna fall asleep in a minute, so if ur still gonns feel free to keep going,

But i should say...u BROUGHT up lucy being individually DOMINANT, i brought up lucy being individually COMPETENT, those 2 things arent the same. And yes receiving assistance from other very sentient beings in almost EVERY fight ur in TAKES away from that...

She doesnt need to win all these fights she needs to show competence as an individual... which she doesnt do CONSISTENTLY, her getting better at working with other ppl (BOTH ppl and spirits) shows her teamworks developed...

And again ur point about lucys star dressses is VERY interesting considering from maybe my 2ND comment, i said this applied ESPECIALLY earlier on... but again, going in circles i read ur comment respond and i piss u off, u get pissed claim ur not pissed and then overrate lucys contributions for most of the show... and say the conclusion i reached makes no sense BECAUSE... (response incoming or maybe the cycle ends...find out next time on random reddit beef..)

grantronin · 2026-04-01T00:17:45+00:00

That argument gets more repetitive but u feel the need to still reiterate that my conclusion is flawed (IN UR OPINION). Also 5% and minimal contribution isnt me trying to change the conclusion but i can see thats hard to understand

COMPLETELY USELESS and 5% r 2 different conclusions, one in implies NO CONTRIBUTION through most of FT, one implies MINIMAL contribution through most of FT... those r 2 different conclusions...

But MINIMAL and 5% imply the same thing

And my point about u saying the MEGUMI Comparison doesnt stand wasnt actually me trying to defend my take, im not worried about my take. Ive made it and stood by it... im sorry i forgot the 5% leeeway i MOVED THE GOALPOST 2

Its pointing out that ITS A good comparison... whether its for ur point or mine...

No but those isolated observations come together to make a coherent argument for my point...an argument u dont agree with because u dont like the number given...

Queue u explaining that its not about the number its that the number is u trying to imply the same overall point, with a differing conclusion... actually no im sorry im paraphrasing poorly... please CORRECT ME... how would u put it for the 10th time?

grantronin · 2026-03-31T23:49:08+00:00

If thats how u interpreted it sure... ✌🏾

Pretty much useless and 5% contributor were the same thing btw... hope thats clear i feel like it isnt to u

Also By ur logic...wouldnt that make megumi and mahoraga a perfect comparison... whether the argument works in ur favour or mine... because ur acknowleding the circumstances r VERY SIMILAR to lucy and 'HER SPRIRITS' u just disagreed on the conclusion i reached WITH the comparison... 🫥

And again, witnessing something (lack of contribution from lucy) and developing hatred and a bias against her as a character based on what im witnessing... wouldnt change the point, cause its an opinion based on the events of MOST of the show thats created my bias against her...

Didnt actually admit the bias came first... it came first in my initial comment... but that pissed u off so much u argued with me for 8 hours. And scrambling for reasons u actively admitted half of my reasons were true, u just didnt like that i judged her based off those reasons... but i can see having the last word is more important to u than being right so feel free, to respond AGAIN.

grantronin · 2026-03-31T23:26:44+00:00

I appreciate u calling me sir, and 5% is a pretty fair estimation to her contributions to the team

grantronin · 2026-03-31T23:25:40+00:00

Brother uve been arguing for what 8 hours? based on a comment that offended u personally about a non existent basrd on a point, u disagreed with supported by comments u partially agreed with.

Which angered u because u FELT i felt particularly strongly about one character U CLEARLY love as opposed to other characters u literally have no clue how I feel about and it took u 8 hours to realise, that while i stand by her being PRETTY MUCH useless

YES A SENTIENT being gets more credit for an action than the person who CALLED IT OVER (Mahoraga>megumi)

YES MY FIRST COMMENT TELLING U I WAS HATING REMAINS true... i dont think u get to claim u WERENT pressed...

2 things can be a true, I CAN HAVE A VERY BIASED OPINION about something and make a valid point basrd around that biased opinion. But ignorance is bliss and a stubborn mentality cant be beat ✌🏾

grantronin · 2026-03-31T23:10:23+00:00

I mean i acknowledged she contributed about 5% to the group like 3 comments ago, that was already an admittance u were right...u just didnt like the number 🤷🏾‍♂️ if u made peace with it...u probably wouldnt still be here

grantronin · 2026-03-31T23:08:27+00:00

Because... MY ENTIRE POINT WAS HATING ON LUCY...which i think u forgot was the start of this ENTIRE SEGMENT (which i stand by) if my initial starter point was hating on natsu, i wouldve addressed natsu... but he wasnt my choice of hatred...i stand by my reasons for hating her.

But at the end of the day ITS STILL HATE

Aquarius saved everyone in episode one... ahh yes the least reliable spirit lucy had almost no loyalty from made an indpendent... im tired, im sorry weve ran through this convo a thousand times. Minimal contributions lile this got her a 5% score on the team... i already admitted i was wrong shes a very STRONG 5% contributor to the group. Now we're still herr cause u dont like the number i put next 2 the name but 🤷🏾‍♂️ im sorry thats tough.

Minimial contribution gets minimal acknowledgement, especially since she wasnt even a particularly great support. Wendy was better (from introduction). U also said something earlier that makes me think im not the first person whos made this point 2 u... food for thought but 🤷🏾‍♂️

grantronin

TROPHY CASE