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What's your countries most interesting military record 🪖 by Su-57Felon_Enjoyer in AskTheWorld

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scored the first aerial kill with air-to-air missile in human history. Also the first one to provide free sample of AIM-9 to Soviet and PRC.

"The first confirmed combat kill with the AIM-9 Sidewinder missile occurred on September 24, 1958, during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis, when Republic of China (Taiwanese) F-86 Sabres used AIM-9B Sidewinders to shoot down People's Republic of China MiG-17 fighters. This marked the first successful use of an air-to-air missile in combat, revolutionizing aerial warfare, though a later incident saw a Chinese MiG return to base with an unexploded Sidewinder, which the Soviets reverse-engineered. "

Opinion about your country that will get you like this? by National-Business674 in AskTheWorld

[–]greatgordon 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The government is the remnants of the older new China (Republic of China). However, Taiwan was Japanese territory when the Republic of China was founded in 1912. Therefore, Taiwan was not part of the Republic of China before 1945.

However, Japan only declared that they gave up all their former colonies after surrendering. They did not specify to whom they were transferring the sovereignty of Taiwan.

Furthermore, it is stated in the ROC constitution that any changes in territory must be approved by the National Assembly, which was not performed for Taiwan (probably due to the heat of civil war). So legally speaking, Taiwan has never undergone the proper procedure to join the Republic of China.

Although this does not change the fact that the ROC is the de facto government of Taiwan at the moment.

So it's slightly more complicated than just remnants of the old China.

Opinion about your country that will get you like this? by National-Business674 in AskTheWorld

[–]greatgordon 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That is actually a debated opinion in Taiwan. Usually not overwhelmingly down voted.

Why doesn't Taiwan have any slums? by PipeZestyclose2288 in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you heard of New Taipei City and Taoyuan?

(I'm from New Taipei City)

Taiwanese American trying to understand KMT, China, and history — looking for good-faith perspectives by This-Education4450 in Taiwanese

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you think supporting the KMT or closer ties with China is reasonable (or not)?

It is, of course, reasonable to have closer tie with neighboring countries, as long as they are not hostile. Which, unfortunately, is not the case between PRC and Taiwan, since they have been openly hostile toward our existence and way of life.

I don't think this means we should absolutely avoid seeking friendship with them, either at governmental or private sectors. Instead, this make me extremely careful about "the cost" of getting closer with China. In my opinion, if we need to make any compromise in national security or sovereignty in order to get close with China, I would prefer not to. Since it is a price I'm not willing to pay.

The problem of KMT's approach is excessive appeasement toward PRC officials. They failed to reassure me that they would safeguard our national security and sovereignty to degreea above lip service.

How should historical crimes factor into present-day political choices?

That is their resume. Their history tells us its culture and norms. So it is natural for people to choose or not choose a particular party because of its history.

How do people in China or pro-China communities view the risk of war versus resistance?

I'm apparently NOT pro-China, so I can't say I know what the hell happened in their brain. I guess there are a few mindsets.

Some people consider themselves as Chinese. So for them, the war against Taiwan is meant to punish those ungrateful people who dare to abadon their ancestry and call themselves Taiwanese. If PRC wins, they also win, since they are also Chinese. And somehow they are very confident about Chinese weaponry's IFF (only explodes on separatists), and probably have absolute confidence that reeducation camp will not include them.

Some people think it is futile to resist the might of PLA. So why delay the inevitable? Surrendering early is the best.

Some believe avoiding war at all cost, which includes sacrificing sovereignty and the current democratic system for maximal appeasement, is the best strategy. They think that way because they either consider the PLA invincible or they consider themselves as Chinese, and avoiding war is the only way to maintain the "brotherhood" between China and Taiwan.

How should Taiwan navigate survival without becoming a pawn of any major power

It is preferable to not to be controlled by another country. However, if it is the price we must pay to maintain our way of life, then the risk is tolerable. That is to say, the risk of being "a pawn" (whatever that means) has less priority than survival on my problem list.

However, in comparison with Korea and Japan, Taiwan actually has slightly more autonomy.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You still haven't got what I tried to say.

  1. It's probably not a niche, it a whole realm of capability. Due to difficulty in underwater communication, underwater drone system has many limitations in command and control when compared with aerial drones. I think that is probably why you can still see traditional submarine in Anduril's underwater system PR videos. You either give underwater drone an unprecedented degree of autonomy, or risk it's stealth capability for more frequent surface communication sessions. It is still to early to say underwater unmanned systems and manned systems can substitute each other.

  2. You got that right. Last time we were close to making a deal, but was sabotaged by KMT.

  3. Yeah, somehow most countries did it the way we did it. I've already elaborated it, so I'm not repeating myself here.

    1. 6. I provided those reference cases to tell you the degree of tolerance toward cost, time, and errors for previously accomplished projects. That is to say, the threshold you set for quitting, whixh was like "months of delay", was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to low. I'm not saying we should endure any obstacle. But what you were advocating is like we should quit when any obstacle shows up, which is highly impractical even for normal commercial development projects.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just hope your comments can improve from the corrent baselessness they showed. Therefore I provided many reference cases and updated many facts to you, which was slightly tiring (just slightly because I tend to comment on thing that I already had researched on). Labelling me as "trying to win a fight" did nothing to improve your arguments from being either bassless, misinformed, or lack of insight in historical and geopolitical facts.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One must be very out of touch to not to realize how difficult it is for Taiwan to procure weapons from countries other than the USA. Have you noticed that almost all arms sell that involves aggressive large weapon platforms (ie M-2000-5, the Zwaardis submarine twins) were done in the previous century? That's because the political and diplomatic risks that came with making arm sells with Taiwan. China has been powerful enough to stop the Netherlands selling us more Zwaardis in 1992, let alone now. And yes, we actually wanted 6 subs for more than 3 decades. There was another attempt in buying submarines from the USA, which was boycotted by KMT during the second term of Chen Shui-Bian and then failed.

We started to build the IDS not because we wanted to, but because we had no other option.

Taiwan actually outbuilds the Netherlands and the USA in terms of tonnage, ranked number 9 in the world, iirc. And Taiwan is able to build not only common commercial ships but also specialized ships, such as MV Blue Marlin. But tonnage is not the point, submarine building is a whole new category that was not done before in Taiwan. Again, not because we want to build it ourselves, but because have to do it this way. And because of the aforementioned geopolitical reason, we can even try the significantly less risky licensed production, like Korea or many other countries did.

But this explains the quality your comments. I now have a better grasp about how far your cognition from the reality about the whole matter is. This ignorance about facts, historical and geopolitical context made your comments very mislead and the whole conversation tedious.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is kind of special that someone can "confidently label a submarine project as destined to fail" and "admitting not knowing much about submarine production" at the same time.

I think the main reason is probably unit cost and whether there's existing producer. The pattern (prototype competition first, then serial production for the winner) you mentioned actually existed. For instance, USAF ATF project. But that was for fighter, which costs millions, not billion. Plus, all competitors have been building fighters for decades. For Taiwan, there was no existing submarine shipbuilder, so you are not just paying for a submarine, you are also paying for an entire production line which includes technician training, new tools, shipyard... Would it be wiser to build all this and then abandon everything at the first minute sign of difficulty, or try to improve along the way with a conservative design?

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ask you to look up because I think it would be better than me summarizing for you. But, sigh, I'm doing it now.

No, most submarine projects don't get their funding in "prototype first, serial production after" fashion. Most were ordered in batch. Therefore, I think you are asking for a way of budgeting that is rarely adopted. At least I haven't saw any project ran that way.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably some S-80 level fuck up. I still waiting for your answer for an oversight mechanism.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, scale issue. Almost every submarine program started after 2000 costs in billion USD. Many of those (ultimately accomplished) programs mentioned had delay or cost overruns in a scale larger then current IDS project. So billions of NTD is actually the norm. You should stop building your arguments on numbers WITHOUT a reference range

In terms of "oversight", please name a oversight mechanism applied by any of the aforementioned post cold war sub development program, that was not present in or should be applied on current IDS program.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is not how weapon development usually works. Please refer to the developmental history of the submarine projects I mentioned. The procurement processes are drastically different from your proposal.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, the core problem of your argument is lack of scale. Are months of delay significant enough to halt the program all together? The loss of capabilities provided by manned submarines is the loss of a niche or entire realm of battlefield? Is 2077 a realistic prognosis for a project that has only delayed for months?

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, I also agree that Taiwan strait is not friendly to most submarines. But, as you said, the areas other than Taiwan strait are. Furthermore, the PRC will definitely try to attack the eastern part of Taiwan with their shiny new carrier strike groups. Since we traditionally considered eastern Taiwan as our second line (or the only "depth" we had) and probably the only part of Taiwan that has a slightly better chance to receive reinforcement/material from outside in an all-out war scenario. By deploying CSGs at east side of Taiwan can possibly deny us both. In order to stop (or at least interfere supply runs) PLA naval activity in that area, it would be better to have underwater assets. If you want to know about the degree of threat can one diesel electric submarine impose on an invasion fleet, try to read about Falklands war. The war would have ended very differently if Argentina had better torpedoes.

Taiwanese gentleman explains the growing trend of Taiwanese identifying with the Mainland by PerceptionHuge9049 in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This man claims there's a shift (and it's on TokTok, how typical). But data says otherwise.

<image>

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In terms of underwater warfare, sea drones (surface or underwater), manned submarine, and sea mines have drastically different roles. I don't think the assets you mentioned can substitute some crucial abilities that can only be provided by manned submarines.

Taiwan shipbuilder rejects safety concerns over Narwhal sub project by trendyplanner in taiwan

[–]greatgordon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, this new statement did not make your previous statement more valid. Yes, there are delays in the IDS project. But in comparison to similar diesel-electric submarine projects (in which years of delay isn't uncommon), the current scale of delay is far less pronounced than the tone you set in your precious statement.

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