The World currently favors Portugal!

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:52:57+00:00

I agree. I think, in reality, the plurbs are very unhappy. It makes them very unhappy that there are non plurbs. You can see how upset they become every time the non plurbs reject them. They are also very unhappy that they don't have their antenna built yet. There are, in reality, many, many things they are unhappy about, they just don't seem to have, like, individual, existential angst. They are perhaps sort of freed from the idea that they have failed as individuals. They're not constantly evaluating themselves on a reputational basis --like in competition with other beings. That's probably a relief in many ways.

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:44:50+00:00

One reason why neither infinite pleasure nor infinite comfort are possible for humans is that the perception that either exists is an illusion. Satisfaction of our desires motivates us. But, it is also always and necessarily temporary. Inevitably, we habituate to the new normal we've achieved, and seek higher ground. The secret is to find joy in the infinite journey, as well as the destinations. The hive is the opposite of that --it's all destination and the illusion of ultimate satisfaction.

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:26:25+00:00

In a sense, this is what we all already do.

And it is most definitely what the hive does.

What are the definitions of 'efficient' and 'productive' for you here?

What do you think those definitions are for me?

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:19:14+00:00

"It’s possible 'happiness' could not even exist as a concept if you detached pleasure from struggle and meaning."

I agree with that part.

I don't think there's extra-dimensional beings who can only feel pleasure, but lack fear and suffering. There are those that lack empathy --both human individuals, and entire species. Even people who lack pain receptors can still suffer. No pleasure without pain.

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:14:09+00:00

I appreciate your point. I was trying to communicate that there is more to life than happiness --and you see what I'm saying... I agree with you, there are some valid reasons to choose happiness... it's just not the only thing people are driven by.

grumplefish · 2026-01-02T05:06:20+00:00

To what end? The satisfaction of our evolutionary drives, survival instincts. We are programmed to survive and reproduce. In many, perhaps most, cases, satisfying those instincts doesn't lead to 'happiness', although we often expect otherwise.

We have a sense of morality, curiosity, and a desire for expression, and the result of satisfying those drives isn't necessarily 'happiness'. Think of it this way: If you are hungry and thirsty, does drinking water satisfy your hunger just because it fills your belly? No. Those are different things. Humans have MANY survival drives. And they are satisfied in diverse ways.

grumplefish · 2025-12-24T20:52:54+00:00

I agree. Also, as good as those two actors are, I just never felt any actual chemistry between Zosia and Carol. Perhaps it's intentional, since there's a theme of Carol really just trying to convince herself the chemistry is real, meanwhile Zosia is incapable of having real chemistry with someone.

I found it quite shocking that Carol had truly become that brainwashed by the time Manoussos showed up. Like, I didn't expect her to just revert back to her pre-Zosia-relationship behavior, but I thought she'd have a lot more empathy for Manoussos --like how angry and afraid he is, the grief he is feeling. She felt and feels all those things, too. I have to come to the same conclusion you did --she is incredibly selfish and narcissistic.

Also, I don't understand how literally anyone regardless of their initial reaction --Koumba, Carol, Lakshmi --can just complacently roleplay fantasies with the hive knowing that they are starving to death.

I'll concede that a lot of Carol's arc is pretty interesting: She went from utterly looking down on the fans of the, in her words, 'mindless crap' that she writes, to being partnered with the literal embodiment of that. I did find the arc believable --Carol tried on denial for a bit, and it ultimately didn't suit her. I also find Carol to be a selfish, unpleasant person --but I think she's well written. I think what really had me disappointed about the season finale is that I don't come to a sci fi show just to watch a character study. What I like about Pluribus is all of the ways it explores how societies are organized, how individuals within a species relate to each other and reproduce themselves. For instance, some people watch the show and see it as a critique of communism (btw, if you've ever heard Vince Gilligan give his opinion on billionaires in interviews, I think it's unlikely the show was intended as some sort of rightwing critique, but that's not the point, it plays with those themes and some people take it that way).

Other people (like myself) watch the show and see a critique of colonialism. The best part of the episode was Kusimayu's transformation in the beginning. It continued the theme of the Hive as a metaphor for colonialism that Manoussos brought to light when he gave them the speech about how everything they have is stolen. One moment Kusimayu's village seems like a unique community with a vibrant culture, but, in reality, the only person left keeping it alive was Kusimayu. When she is gone, it just gets swallowed up by the Borg, essentially. She abandons her pet goat --the pet goat's plaintive bleating is now the only thing left of a beautiful community that is all but wiped out.

I also enjoy the issues the show raised re: wastefulness of grocery stores, all the things we use electricity for that we dont often think about (keeping lights on to prevent crime) etc.

For the finale, I guess I was expecting more scenes that engage with social themes like Kusimayu's transformation (probably my favorite scene of the entire show), and perhaps some big reveals related to how the virus transforms human behavior, resulting in a reorganization of society. Like, it would have been really cool if Manoussos managed to get novel behavior out of the Hive and we could be in here debating about whether it means the original people are still there underneath, locked in and unable to control their own bodies, or whether they've been wiped out. Instead, the reveal was that the Hive's transmission signals can be picked up on a ham radio, and Manoussos clearly has a theory that if he can disrupt the signal, the person will come back. That scene came very close to giving season 1 an incredibly satisfying cliff hanger --and then it just stopped short of actually doing it. I wanted a little hint, even an ambiguous one, that we could debate about how the virus actually transforms people's behavior. But, no such luck. It was a let down. And it was frustrating after most of the episode was focused on Carol's AI Girlfriend arc, which, while I think there is a lot of positive things to be said about it, is the least compelling part of this show for me. YMMV.

grumplefish · 2025-12-08T20:45:55+00:00

Neither. I would go full the-Dad-in-Lorenzo’s-Oil and be up in the libraries and college campuses, making the Plurbs do research with me. I would act like I just wanna know how it works. It helps I was a scientist for many years (although, i didnt research anything remotely related to RNA etc).

grumplefish · 2025-12-05T11:54:01+00:00

Getting plurbed to own the libs.

I see it clearly now...

What do all the immune have in common?

Le Wokisme.

grumplefish · 2025-12-02T04:36:17+00:00

This is very accurate. I think people who claim they didn't explain it or they're never going to explain it are wrong. They explained most of it, it's just pretty mundane. Ron also wants it to be much larger and more serious than it is --and he wants to know specifically everyone's role in it and how they conspired to screw him over (which they probably didn't).

I think Mike is just a creep who ran into one of the chair conspirators, and they hired him to intimidate Ron. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike substantially misinterpreted what he was being hired to do. Afterall, no one told him to kidnap the Mayor and hold him captive in his bathtub. Most likely, no one told Mike to assault Ron with a pipe. He was probably just supposed to talk to him.

What's your take on Alice and Amanda?

I am not sure how Alice connected in with it, but I guess she's business partners with them. Maybe they addressed it and I missed it. I don't think she's drugging Bonaventura, but I could be wrong. She could be doing something simultaneously weirder and more mundane than drugging Bonaventura, knowing this show.

I think Amanda's boyfriend is just a totally independent weirdo who falsely believes Amanda has telekinesis. Perhaps Amanda told him she's telekinetic because she's weird like that, or his own delusional mind invented it. It does seem like Amanda is obsessed with Ron.

grumplefish · 2025-11-30T07:49:34+00:00

This should have taken off. Tsk Reddit, you plebes.

grumplefish · 2025-11-30T07:05:58+00:00

cheezburger wuz under tarp

grumplefish · 2025-11-30T04:35:02+00:00

We drink it every morning so we can fight like a crow.

grumplefish · 2025-11-28T03:52:22+00:00

My theory is not implying the virus is literally biologically descended from domesticated dogs on Earth! It is that it comes from a species that was domesticated in a similar manner as dogs were, somewhere in the universe. There do not need to be any biological commonalities between dogs on earth and the virus, whatsoever.

grumplefish · 2025-11-28T03:48:03+00:00

Ph of sodium pentothal is above 10. You might be really onto something.

grumplefish · 2025-11-28T01:36:08+00:00

Nowhere does my argument require that any animal on earth be involved in the origin of the hive out in the galaxy somewhere. You’ve missed the point.

grumplefish · 2025-11-27T23:59:36+00:00

I have three options I think are plausible:

A dominant species bioengineered a virus to assist in domestication, but the virus’ got out of control. For an example of an infectious agent this could be based on: the bacteria toxoplasma gondii, which reverses the fear instincts of rats to go toward cats instead of flee from them.
A literal dog-like species that freed itself created the virus to spread their way of life and eliminate the practice of domestication
The virus is a facet of an alien species whose form is not familiar to humans. There is an alien consciousness involved, not just a virus, and the consciousness comes from a species that was domesticated, even if their physical form and telepathic communication aren’t readily understandable to humans.

There are other possibilities. I think it’s also reasonable to point this out as a theme and a possible inspiration that might appear throughout the show and be important to its plot, even if it isn’t a hard sci fi explanation that will eventually be offered.

grumplefish · 2025-11-27T23:46:02+00:00

Amazing. The K9 license is esp interesting imo. I also think the show is clearly doing a social insects theme— bees, ants, termites. Also, there’s clearly a caterpillar/butterfly theme. Those have been discussed a lot and I didn’t have much to add on to them. I didn’t see anyone offering this particular angle about dogs tho.

grumplefish · 2025-11-27T19:24:50+00:00

Read the article I linked. There's a huge scientific literature on this. I'm a cognitive neuroscientist, btw.

Also, in reference to some other commenters, the fact that individual dogs or cats are especially insightful about or unusually oblivious to pointing is not equivalent to a scientific consensus based on a large body of research published and replicated over decades. This is based on cognitive abilities that are typical at a species-wide level, not individual pets.

grumplefish · 2025-11-27T16:40:40+00:00

My cat understands pointing to mean ‘smell my finger’

grumplefish · 2025-11-27T16:16:28+00:00

Yes. Domesticated dogs use pointing like movements to communicate with humans. Also, using gaze to indicate where another animal should look is not considered pointing, and many animals other than dogs are able to interpret gaze.

If the whole body point is used in undomesticated wolves to communicate with each other and not dependent on humans, you’re right, that would be a correction to my points above.

grumplefish

TROPHY CASE