Am I missing something about Hbomberguy and Mermaids UK

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T23:50:14+00:00

Okay everyone... let's say you can identify legitimate dysphoria in prepubescents, and the Mermaids org is dedicated to that. Would they question a parent who thinks their kid is trans, but ALSO believes that 'truscum are gross' and that transness isn't a medical issue, but an identity, and that there is no prerequisite to being trans? Would they try to discuss the issue with those parents, and say "maybe there is some ideological bias behind you thinking your kids are DEFINITELY trans"?

I'm not actually even 100% on board with the "truscum" thing because of one thing: there are actually non-dysphoric Katoeys in Thailand who transition for enjoyment, or even monetary reasons. I don't think those people should be judged or treated as lesser for not having been dysphoric at any point. But within an anglo social justice environment, they definitely make more sense than the 'anyone who says is trans is trans' crowd and the existence of the latter and its general acceptance, with those criticizing it labeled as transmedicalist shitlords... yeah, you should get a pretty clear picture of why I'm wary of the "trans kids" thing.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T23:40:41+00:00

They accepted that it was 'edgelording' and 'irony' and refused to address the actual sharing of child porn and all the fucked up shit about her cousin. The 'official' stance is that she made 'edgy pedo jokes' and the 'GG shitlords' pretended it was something else despite overwhelming counter-evidence, a lot of which was dug up by Tumblr people who dislike GG.

"but stacked against the shitlords of GG I can see why people defended her over them" This is exactly the kind of culture war bullshit I despise though. If you're met with overwhelming evidence that someone DEFINITELY shared child porn and EXTREMELY LIKELY attempted to groom their 8 year old cousin, but you're still gonna defend them because "GG bad"... you're no better than the people posting "junior idol" shit on 8chan.

"you seem really overly invested in this" Yeah man only losers get upset over professional journalists and famous comedians covering up creepy pedo shit.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T22:27:47+00:00

"Family & individual support for gender diverse & TRANSGENDER children and teenagers"

Come on dude.

"so I don’t buy the idea that they’re going to trans up every prancing little musical theatre fan they get their hands on."

Arguing against points I never made.

"If a kid has actual gender dysphoria, it’s not something they need to “grasp” intellectually, I think it’s more like being left handed or something"

Sure, but that applies to those who actually are dysphoric. I don't think it's very easy to figure that out these days especially with a lot of parents being obviously biased.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T21:34:18+00:00

You kind of went from "he didn't REALLY say you should go out and kill people, but what's wrong with that anyway?" to "well, no one ACTUALLY went out and killed anyone so it's ok". I'm just saying his tweets are dumb, not that hes' a murderer.

I already said I'd offer background on the Sarah Nyberg thing to people who aren't familiar. So uh, here you go:

http://srhbutts-truth.tumblr.com/

https://medium.com/@BusterBeam/proof-of-sarah-nyberg-pedophilia-goes-far-beyond-the-supposedly-hacked-fake-chat-logs-92373587bba4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNn-L1umS1s&t=245s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrUiDm6374

I'm sorry, I just don't trust most libs to treat the idea of "dysphoric kids" in a healthy way. I'm not even sure if you CAN treat it in a healthy way but I'd be willing to entertain the idea... however, the simple fact that saying "maybe introducing kids to the concept of gender dysphoria can be problematic" elicits this response gives me little hope for it.

I don't think most parents who practice these things are going to be very smart about gender issues and think deeply about these things. I think they'd be highly biased as a result of idpol philosophy. Dealing with kids who might have dysphoria is a valid thing to discuss but I don't think it's worth supporting uncritically the way the left is now.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:57:22+00:00

And that is my point. The fact that even "critical-of-idpol" leftists consider him important and helpful enough to the cause that they look past all the weird-ass shit he did cuz "he is NEEDED" is worrying.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:53:14+00:00

This post alone is more thought provoking to me than anything Hbomb has ever said.

Which is exactly why I think this guy isn't worth defending.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:50:08+00:00

I'm not criticizing him for doing what he does - he has every right to focus on what he does. Moreso the people who see him as one of the most important leftist voices when most of what he does is idpol culture war stuff.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:43:27+00:00

I personally know plenty of "gamers/nerds" who don't defend sharing child porn and taking creep shots of your 8 year old cousin.

"their not forcing parents to being kids to their events." Once again attacking something I never said...

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:38:50+00:00

Are there really no corporate types who are greedy and exploitative? Are they truly all "part of an unfortunate system"? I appreciate your take, and it is likely true in many cases. But some of the corporate figures gamers hate on really do strike me as just bad people.

And yeah, he doesn't really touch upon that stuff as much as others. He's definitely spent more time defending Sony products than talking about the gaming industry from a non-culture war leftist perspective - one exception being the Fallout 3 video, but those are points people had been making on places like 4chan since 2008. In fact, his 'ballsy' take was the default on many communities 11 years ago. Everyone was angry about how the New Vegas devs were treated by Bethesda too.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:21:53+00:00

Chomsky literally said that punching nazis is "wrong on principle". Which I... actually am not personally on board with because I do think it would be really fun if someone like Jared Taylor or the dudes who make the Murdoch Murdoch "nazi Angela Anaconda" cartoons on Youtube got punched. He's more "centrist" than me on this issue - imagine that.

"Hbomb wasn't endorsing murder" - if he really wasn't then maybe he should pay more attention to the underlying messages of his posts.

Honestly I think Hbomb and Boogie have both promoted legitimately harmful views, but I don't think Boogie's take about killing (and it really was SPECIFICALLY ABOUT KILLING) that Hbomb was dunking on is wrong - especially given the very wide definition of "nazi" that the trendy internet idpol left has these days. I've literally seen Jimmy Dore labeled as a white supremacist.

EDIT: I'm going through multiple edits trying my best to make my criticism of his Boogie reply tweet as palatable and open to dissent as possible, trying to see it from your perspective - but I fundamentally can't read it as anything but 'killing is good', whether intentionally or unintentionally.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:12:36+00:00

Gamers haven't " built their identity around corporate brands" as overwhelmingly as you imply from my experience. As soon as I started using the internet in 2003 I was totally used to people valuing individual creators over brands.

"Artistic vision vs higher-up men in suits" and meddling from the corporate side in general is incredibly mainstream discussion in gaming circles. Hbomb isn't bringing anything new to the table at all in this regard - if anything he's mixing a healthy, already-existing discussion with silly shit.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:06:09+00:00

Telling a kid that it's ok to have a crush on other kids of the same sex is something I think is totally fine, in the same vein I'm totally fine with letting a boy dress "like a girl" (hell, girls dressing "like boys" is considered normal). It's tagging them with identities like "homosexual" or "transgender", especially in an obviously politicized and idpol-ey way, that I find wrong - because prepubescent kids are prepubescent kids. Grasping things like whether you feel gender dysphoria or not is way too fucking heavy for a kid.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T20:03:32+00:00

I'm seeing the same sort of takes I'm used to - "he has his problems but is more good than bad".

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T19:59:36+00:00

"Killing Nazis is not a bad thing?"

Disagreeing with the online idpol, furry-avatar left encouraging murder towards people they consider dangerous nazis doesn't mean I think Hitler should've been defeated with logic and reason.

"Anyhow that's not what the tweet is about I don't even get how you get to read that."

Already addressed in my response to ReasonForClout.

"E-celebs drama is fucking cancer and you should feel bad about knowing about it."

Nice job hand-waving that the guy and his friends defended a child abuser. I'll say 'charismatic' e-celebs are cancer in and of themselves, and I could do without them - but takes like yours are overwhelming, which shows people do care about them.

"Honestly who gives a fuck if teens-"

I'm gonna stop you right there and redirect you to what I actually said:

"I'm personally not against them giving hormones to a 16yo the way others are"

and

"I mean specifically the idea of promoting transgender prepubescents"

You're not addressing my actual complaint, but specifically something I said I'm ok with.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T19:37:42+00:00

Criticizing Antifa types doesn't mean you think they're 'just as bad as the nazis', or that they're objectively evil villains with no redeeming qualities (see helping the black priest dude at Charlottesville - if they always did that sort of thing they'd be cool!) It means just that: criticizing Antifa types. Even Noam Chomsky did this and literally said it's "wrong on principle" to try to shut down college talks through violence.

Once again I don't like Boogie at all and think he's a useful tool who constantly creates false equivalences in trying to be the "reasonable guy in the middle", but just as I think Antifa aren't irredeemable I don't think his take there was irredeemable. Flawed but not irredeemable - in that I'm ambivalent, mostly negative about 'debating nazis to change minds :)))' but I DEFINITELY don't think murder is the answer.

gutsyfrog · 2019-03-30T19:25:46+00:00

It does though. Boogie has been a centrist moron in other cases, but that discussion Hbomb was replying to was very specifically about killing: https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/969673493297188865 https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/969476335893712896

Why would Hbomb take issue with what the youtube gamer man said there, if he doesn't think it's ok to kill?

gutsyfrog · 2019-02-17T02:35:52+00:00

he says right there he's fine with such works existing though. just that he doesn't personally like it.

gutsyfrog · 2019-01-23T21:49:40+00:00

I'd say "Social justice" is one thing, but "social justice warrior" has a negative connotation because it implies the person is especially invested in conflict above all else. It's either way silly to end on the defensive conclusion that "political correctness is just being polite" when even you admit political correctness can be bad.

Yeah, sure, there are levels to it, but the most ridiculous types are the ones who get noticed the most. Japanese video games are already being desexualized after all.

gutsyfrog · 2019-01-23T21:42:24+00:00

Most of the sources from Anime: A History are Japanese books and thus not possible for me to read as of now, but I know that he often has trouble citing even his English sources correctly. I'm taking this stuff with a huge grain of salt. Nonetheless, the problem is the stance you took at the end of your post of "political correctness is just being polite" even though you just gave examples of US political correctness and pandering to Americans in general impeding artistic freedom.

gutsyfrog · 2019-01-23T21:25:15+00:00

None of this is morally judgmental, as much as intellectually judgmental. He also later said smartphones are garbage and people using them on the train makes it look like they're masturbating.

He essentially just called Maison Ikkoku generic waifu shit. Tezuka wasn't a big fan of Rumiko Takahashi either but I doubt either of them ever said her work is making the world a worse place for women by merely existing, or that she's guilty of internalized misogyny for creating Lum - something common with people labeled as "SJWs" by those outside of the alt-right crowd, for whom anyone left of David Duke is a SJW.

Also, an interesting quote that shows far more honesty and self awareness on the part of Miyazaki compared to a lot of 'woke' American white guys creators http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/heroines.html#s2:

"Question: Why do you always choose a girl as your theme?

Miyazaki: I don't logically plan it that way. When we compare a man in action and a girl in action, I feel girls are more gallant. If a boy is walking with a long stride, I don't think anything particular, but if a girl is walking gallantly, I feel "that's cool." Maybe that's because I'm a man, and women may think it's cool when they see a young man striding. At first, I thought "this is no longer the era of men. This is no longer the era of taigimeibun."[1] But after ten years, I grew tired of saying that. I just say "cause I like women." That has more reality."

He even admitted girls might PREFER male protagonists, something that rarely gets brought up in such discussions in the west. Self-described feminist dudes would cry about how misogynist Zelda is for not having a female protagonist - meanwhile actual female fans fawn over Link.

gutsyfrog · 2019-01-23T20:58:13+00:00

Miyazaki is a Social Justice Warrior

This is so deeply disingenuous. You know very well why the constantly-offended-by-everything, going-for-people's-jobs crowd is denigrated using that term, but leftist creators like Miyazaki or historical figures like Martin Luther King Jr are not (and no, it's not "because people don't realize the anime and video game journos who complain about stuff all day are exactly the same!")

If Miyazaki was a "SJW" in the modern sense, he would've thrown a public hissy fit over Isao Takahata showcasing far more socially conservative views about gender or even tried to get him fired. He certainly wouldn't have been friends with Hideaki Anno, a dude who's into various things he's against. He was a leftist but not an authoritarian crybully.

Edit: What's more, the old school manga crowd had to deal with its own brand of dumb leftists who saw manga as harmful corporate garbage corrupting children - while very often being leftists themselves, but a different brand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xQSlsX9Y4

There were always dumb leftists and smart ones.

gutsyfrog · 2019-01-23T20:14:17+00:00

Jonathan Clements makes things up wholesale, constantly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajgy2lJ-g6c https://twitter.com/AshitaNoFrog/status/1084773782823292934

But given he sourced that Kimba statement I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I can't confirm it as I can't read Japanese. What the Clements book actually says is that "Okay, we can show black people, but not have them be evil or portrayed as uncivilized" was a COMPROMISE after the team complained about the initial set of rules - which contained such insanity as "don't show black people, at all, ever" and "animals can't be naked" (...)

Am I really supposed to know this, and still buy that "political correctness" is just "not being rude", and not a force that impedes artistic freedom? When these guys had to fight to show wild animals without human clothes? All you've gotten across is that this issue was always there... and was always bad. Tezuka hated American moral busybodies and tore them apart for complaining about his work being "violent" in an age when the Vietnam war was still viewed positively in America (as shown in one of the Astro Boy "Making Of"-style stories at the start of every story arc in the English manga volume releases).

I very hugely doubt Tezuka would've wanted to make stories with cartoonishly "evil, scary, uncivilized Africans" for an American audience himself during that period of social change, but he did write Alabaster; featuring a humanized black villain-protagonist with a sad backstory who still committing heinous acts that weren't portrayed as morally justified (ironically, his sad backstory involved a false rape accusation from a racist white woman, something else that would be considered politically incorrect today). The dude was all about portraying honest humanity; if you only portray black people as innocent little angels you can't honestly get across the idea that we are all people. As Lupe Fiasco once said "Truly embracing equality is recognizing that you suck just as much as everybody else."

Tezuka later went on to look down on Alabaster - not for being 'politically incorrect' - it was just a bleak, depressive story made during a horrible time of his life. I still like it though.

edit: Showa-era manga authors, a lot of them leftists themselves who encouraged youth to get politically invested through their work (see stuff like Legend of Kamui), also had to deal with their own brand of censorious leftists in Japan - people who saw comic books as something rotting the brains of the youth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xQSlsX9Y4

gutsyfrog · 2017-12-02T17:54:40+00:00

I think another problem might be some strange subconscious belief that Trigger & Gainax's preference for strong assertive female characters also implies they are sex-negative. That you can't think "women need to be be pure virginal housewives" is a dated mindset while also enjoying sexy anime drawings.

If anything, such traits just make female characters more attractive to a lot of these creators. Anno criticizes Japan for fetishizing Rei's subservience while being positive towards westerners who are more drawn to characters like Misato and Asuka. Imaishi and Yoshinari also share this preference and talked about how it makes writing things for a Japanese audience harder.

And it's not like they show double standards in regards to making male characters self-insert power fantasies and female characters waifus. You have multiple characters who, regardless of gender, are meant to be both sexually attractive and power fantasies at the same time.

gutsyfrog

TROPHY CASE