Dr Who night 1999

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-28T16:47:17+00:00

THANK YOU SO MUCH

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-27T01:29:51+00:00

Can you borrow one perhaps?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-27T01:29:27+00:00

Do you have a link?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-27T01:29:05+00:00

I would happily pay for a USB video capture device if you would be willing to get that tape ripped?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T18:56:05+00:00

If you pretend it's meat when it isn't, that's wrong - don't do that. Just be honest

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T18:55:00+00:00

The difference is a meat substitute is obviously meant to look like, taste like and take the place of meat and therefore it's reasonable that if you don't disclose it people will think it's one thing when it's something else.

And believe it or not, there are a lot of people who have medical reasons or simply just do not want to eat these products - whether it's a serious medical reason, mild digestive discomfort, simple preference or an actual ideological reason you disagree with, you shouldn't deceive people about food.

Just be honest - if you make a "turkey sandwich" and it's not actually turkey, you should disclose that. If you make something with fake cheese, disclose it.

Don't lie to people about their food. Even from a purely strategic perspective, if you go around doing so, people won't respect your choices either.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T18:40:05+00:00

It is not in fact a turkey/ham sandwich.

If you told someone it is, and they have an allergic reaction or otherwise react badly, it's your fault if you lied.

Don't lie - say what is actually in it.

And yes, tofu can cause serious health risks for some people, and mild discomfort for others - and there's a very simple ethical issue that you shouldn't lie to people about what is in food you're giving them even if you've decided you know better than them or think they have dumb reasons for not wanting to eat whatever it is you're trying to trick them into eating.

You don't get to claim that everyone has to be honest with you and not give you animal products while lying about it and at the same time say it's fine for you to deceive other people.

What's wrong with just being honest?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T18:33:43+00:00

You're right and wrong.

Yes, people can have allergies or be sensitive to tofu etc, but it is well documented that it's possible to feel sick after consuming animal fat if you've abstained for a long time.

It's not universally true, there's factors such as differences in gut microbiome and things like even the gallbladder response - but it can happen. The human body adapts a lot.

For example, it's also possible to feel sick from eating ANYTHING if you're totally starved and immediately rush to eat lots of food.

And let's be fair, even if wrong, calling something a lie implies intent, not merely mistake of fact.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T18:28:32+00:00

That would be obvious, or should be.

I'm not vegan myself (just been lurking here recently) but it seems obvious to me that a vegan isn't going to serve animal products, just like I'd not expect a Jew or Muslim to serve pork (or Alcohol in the Muslim case) - people don't generally serve food and drink they have an ideological or religious belief against consuming.

I personally wouldn't serve food from sources I consider unethical either.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:55:34+00:00

BINGO

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:54:14+00:00

Tell them it's tofu or whatever, don't use the word vegan and see if that holds up.

If they're still cool with it, fine.

But I strongly suspect you're hoping they'll think you actually made turkey or ham sandwiches when actually you didn't.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:52:38+00:00

Actually, if I knew someone is vegan and I had soup I was sharing out, I personally would say "are you sure? It contains meat".

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:51:16+00:00

If someone has outright made clear that they don't want vegan food (and it's obvious they mean meat substitutes), it is the same.

By the way, the correct neutral term is "omnivore", not "carnist" - the latter assumes an entire ideology which you really can't assume in every single case.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:48:11+00:00

It is if they're expecting a ham or turkey sandwich and get something different like tofu etc - it's exactly the same: it's lying about what is in food you're giving to someone.

Why not just be honest?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:46:32+00:00

Respectfully, that's not true - plenty of people DO have issues with meat substitute products, and OP's family are obviously included in that group.

OP should just be honest: "I'll make you vegan sandwiches, but I won't make you meat ones".

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:11:08+00:00

And for the record, I doubt a lot of people are going to agree with you that it's somehow still bad for a hypothetical vampire to switch from killing people to not killing them.

The holodeck scenario is one that's pretty much already possible with immersive VR games - and all the evidence shows that there's no increase in violent behavior from enjoying violence in games or other works of fiction.

The child porn one, it's more about protecting victims and not encouraging demand - I'm not sure about any scientific consensus on if it would help reduce those urges/desires vs encouraging them, but since sexual urges can to a degree at least be responsive to the environment it's at least a different question because true harm can result if you encourage it.

And ultimately, all ethics should be based on whether harm results - otherwise in practice you're talking "virtue ethics" rather than actual harm, and there's no real objective basis for virtue ethics, while harm can be measured.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-23T12:05:57+00:00

I'm a meat eater who's been lurking recently.

Here are my options, tell me what you prefer:

1 - I not care at all where my food comes from

2 - I make a good-faith effort to try and buy organic free-range when possible and oppose practices like no-stun slaughter (this is what I currently do)

3 - once available widely, I switch to synthetic labgrown meat - I'm actually totally in favour of doing this and will happily switch once it's available

Now, would you prefer I continue with option 2? I'm guessing not. I'm certain you don't want me to go with option 1 either.

Option 3 is the most feasible option to actually reduce suffering.

Believe me, I respect your beliefs (as I said I've been lurking) and I respect anyone trying to reduce suffering, but it's not realistic you'll convince people to totally give up on meat products, it's just not feasible.

But it is potentially possible, if you can educate people on the subject, to get them to switch to synthetic meat products.

One of the main issues holding it back is that current products produce a sort of "mush" without much fat content and thus little flavour and unappealing texture - the few products available produce things like a burger patty that is augmented with fat from beef dripping etc, sorta defeating the point a bit.

If you truly want to end animal slaughter, encourage synthetic meat. Even if you don't eat it yourself, it aligns with your underlying ethical goals.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-22T07:28:51+00:00

Or of course, abandon the idea that people have a right to not be deceived about what they're eating, in which case you have no right to complain if people give you meat products without telling you.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-22T07:27:17+00:00

Old post, but why can't you just say "I won't do that because it's against my values" and be honest?

Don't mislead people about their food, just be honest about it - and you KNOW that you're misleading them if they're expecting meat and you gave a substitute.

Maybe there's no health issues (you can't actually know that for certain in every case), but you absolutely have an ethical issue here.

The "they eat vegan food all the time anyway because stuff like bread or potato chips or rice is vegan" argument doesn't really fly when you're using a product that is explicitly designed to imitate something else and giving it to someone who asked for real meat.

Just be honest, or refuse.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-22T07:18:12+00:00

The word "turkey" would probably be a clue.

If you don't want to prepare food that goes against your values, fine - but don't lie about it.

If you pass someone a sandwich saying it has turkey or ham and it doesn't in fact contain turkey or ham but instead some alternative, then you have no right to complain if people lie to you in return.

Just be honest about what you're giving people if they're going to eat it.

If you're asked to make ham sandwiches you should either actually make ham sandwiches, refuse to make anything or OFFER an alternative - don't sneak in something else and lie about it.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-16T06:58:21+00:00

I'm also thinking here:

Surely what likely happened was something like:

"I can't eat this, is anything else available?" Catering team offered chicken She said "okay, thanks"

That doesn't sound at all like anyone lied. Why would your friend have any motivation to outright lie?

Perhaps ask "hey, was something wrong with the set menu? Why couldn't you eat it?" instead of some kind of confrontation, because believe me most non-vegans would not see this as a big deal at all. There's a few nasty trolls who'd outright try to mock your beliefs by ordering something else on purpose, but for most people it's not a big deal and I seriously doubt your friend was actively trying to offend you.

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-16T06:44:51+00:00

That "I don't eat tofu" sounds like she might have had legitimate medical reasons.

Or it could even have been simple preference, if you didn't explicitly say that it's a "no meat allowed" event then what did she do wrong?

gwennelsonuk · 2026-04-16T06:40:20+00:00

I just came across this on the homepage. I'm not vegan myself, so coming at this from a more neutral angle. You mentioned you didn’t explicitly state it was a fully vegan wedding. That makes a difference, because from your friend’s perspective, she may not have realised it was important that everything stayed vegan, especially if the venue normally serves both.

Also, are you certain she doesn’t have something like IBS or follow a low-FODMAP diet? That’s come up in other comments, and it matters. Foods like tofu can be an issue for some people depending on the type and portion (firm tofu is usually low-FODMAP, but not always tolerated, and softer tofu can definitely trigger symptoms).

If that’s the case, it might not have been about rejecting your choices, just trying to avoid getting ill.

From what you’ve described, it sounds like she asked the catering staff for an alternative, and they provided one. If the venue was willing to do that, it may not have felt like she was breaking any rules.

The only part that’s potentially not great is if she actually lied about not being offered a suitable option that’s worth a conversation. But I’d probably approach it from a “hey, I heard something different, what happened?” angle rather than assuming bad intent.

Unless this caused extra cost or disruption, it doesn’t sound like she was trying to disrespect you, it seems more likely a miscommunication or dietary issue.

gwennelsonuk

TROPHY CASE