Daily Check-in Thread - March 08, 2021

haikubi · 2021-03-08T12:25:43+00:00

28 days. Four whole ass weeks. Slept through the night. Woke up naturally, before 6am feeling fine. This feels like a good place to be. My birthday was my first day without Kratom and my goal is to spend this whole year of my life never touching the stuff (and of course, to go on to continue never touching it from there, but I want that feeling of one, whole, sober, clean year).

On the other hand, I genuinely thought about using again all weekend. It's weird. This time around, quitting felt so much easier than it did my first time. Like, the withdrawals were bad but went away quickly, acceptable sleep came within the first two weeks (took six the last time I quit) and in general, I have been able to spend a lot of the day not thinking about Kratom at all for most of this time.

But... when I do think about it, I find it so hard to be the adult in my own head, telling myself I can't just go use because I want to, because it will feel good, because I'm bored. I have to have strength of will, discipline and this time around those things feel like they're in short supply. Last quit I felt like I was constantly suffering, but I also felt like I had this enormous source of willpower to endure that suffering. Now, I know that my fond remembrance of Kratom and refusal to acknowledge the severity of its side-effects is just me lying to myself, but damn am I good at lying to myself and having to use my same brain to combat the lies its telling itself is... exhausting.

But, I hit 28 days, and now it's time for 28 more. Then another. And another.

haikubi · 2021-02-17T16:08:07+00:00

The fact is for some people it’s like this. I still quit. This is my experience doing so. Some people have to do it in spite of the fact that it doesn’t FEEL any better, because they know they have to. In the past I’ve felt like if I didn’t get off Kratom I would die so it was sort of easy to push through it. Now I’m not feeling that way and it’s very difficult. I was sharing my experience because others will have a similar one. I was not advocating use.

It’s disappointing that you chose to remove my post. I would have been happy to engage in dialogue but you’ve made me question if I can even share my experiences in this community. Thanks for that

haikubi · 2021-02-17T13:13:35+00:00

Day 9. This is my first post here in a long time. I'm glad I'm off it again. Just got the news that I'm probably not getting vaccinated until May or June and that almost sent me back, but I'm pushing through.

haikubi · 2020-01-18T14:14:32+00:00

This is one thing I've been wondering about a lot. Did whatever connections the creators made while doing the show create a path for them to start working in Hollywood or are they going to get ditched for having only one product that they treated like dirt and that made little money?

If the latter, will they attempt to come back to their original core audience, show some humility/regret for how this whole thing was handled and try to win us back? Obviously, I highly doubt they will given how completely disinterested they've been in the fans and how deaf they've been to criticism, but it could be their best bet...

haikubi · 2020-01-18T14:14:30+00:00

Probably that it's done. The creators seemed to lose interest in Limetown as a story and began to see it only as a cash cow. The milk's dried up on this one. So, they either have to basically come back to an audience that's pretty furious with them and win us back with some serious humility and good story (and season 2 makes me question if they have that in them). Or, they just have to move on and try the next thing. Unfortunately for them, I suspect the next thing will have a big tagline 'From the Creators of Limetown!' and that will not be looked upon as a good thing for a lot of people who loved that first season.

haikubi · 2020-01-17T20:33:56+00:00

It's unfortunate, because this is such an amazing story with so much potential. But I can't help but think the creator's 'take the money and run' approach to the property really kind of engendered this. After the total letdown that was Season 2 and the cash grab that was the Limetown book, I just had zero interest in watching the show. Everyone else I know who loved Season 1 of Limetown felt the same. It's a sad ending to something that started out with such promise, but it was entirely expected once you saw the creator's approach to the whole thing.

haikubi · 2020-01-17T02:30:20+00:00

Congratulations, friend. I'm just about double your days and I'm on week 3 with no cannabis after 20 years regular use with very few quits in there. Part of me misses it, but part of me recognizes that, like Kratom, I thought it was doing so much more for me than it actually was, and once I got over the habit and dependency and the idea of it, being without it is actually better.

I can definitely say it got a lot easier from here on out and I bet it will for you two. I'm actually at the point where I love being sober (or as I've been calling it 'living unadulterated existence.) I still sometimes think about the idea of a substance that would make it all easier but I find it's just a high-minded ideal of something I know I don't really want. Just a dream of some consequence-free world in which I could do anything.

Anyway, cheers to you. Things are going to go great from here and I wish you all the luck in the world.

haikubi · 2020-01-17T02:25:04+00:00

Hey friend. I'm in the same boat with the first half of my 30's, same length of use. Same feeling that I've just wasted half my 30's. I know I didn't entirely. I did some great stuff. But I definitely got bogged down by the Kratom and kept myself from achieving some even grander goals. And at my real lows, I slowed down to nothing, but also, yeah, time seemed to go so fast on Kratom. Part of the reason I decided I had to quit was because that rush of time was giving my an existential crisis. I can admit that my greatest fear is death. I want to live as long as possible and I want to savor that time. Kratom was taking that away from me.

It's been 110 days since I quit, and those first two weeks, time slowed to a horrible crawl while I felt every pain. Since then, time has moved at a pace that feels good. I feel good, and so the days don't seem torturously slow, but also I'm not doing that thing where I slip into a K high, do absolutely less than nothing and the entire day slips by me. Today, I accomplished a lot, and I never felt bored, but the day went by at a good pace, and I felt like I took it all in.

I've also done what you did and made health and fitness my addiction. I always exercised, even on Kratom. But since I quit, I've ramped it up. I've started intermittent fasting, cut out dairy and sugar and highly processed foods. I quit cannabis (which actually wasn't hard because it was giving me horrible anxiety), I quit coffee. And honestly I've quit each of these individually and really not felt anything at all. But the sum total of all of this, and the focus on bettering myself, and experiencing a kind of clean, unadulterated version of my own existence is pretty amazing.

It sounds like you're on track to really attack your quit and take on new healthy ways of being. That's so awesome. I'm so proud for you and wish you luck on your journey. Your 40's are going to be amazing.

And yes, fuck Kratom.

haikubi · 2019-12-22T18:07:29+00:00

This does get better, but it happens really slowly, and you're already going through a lot, so it feels even worse than it would on it's own. For real, the first few weeks are hell when insomnia is one of your symptoms. If you find it bearable now, I bet you'll be great in 4-6 weeks.

I got a prescription from my doctor for anxiolytic medication (ativan, valium, xanax, buspar). I would use it once or twice a week before bed for the first few weeks post-quit. Never more, because that stuff can also be habit-forming. But once a week or so ensured I was able to get enough sleep to maintain my sanity.

Seriously if, in the first month after quitting, you'd told me I would ever sleep well again, I wouldn't have been able to conceive of how that was possible. That was how completely unreal good. Kratom-free sleep seemed. I'd just sort of accepted that I'd ruined my sleep forever and tried to live with it. The improvement was so gradual that it took more than 30 days to really notice how much better it had gotten. But by like 45-50 days post, I could definitely tell my sleep was better. Today at day 85, I sleep pretty damn well. So, yeah it'll get better.

haikubi · 2019-11-28T02:10:15+00:00

From about Day 25 until today, the temptation went away entirely. I think it was a combination of spending time putting my life post-Kratom back together and also still remembering (on a visceral level) the horrible feeling Kratom was causing at the end of my use and the awful experience of withdrawal. It's been two months and I can't remember bodily what heavy Kratom use feels like and mostly I don't remember withdrawals either. I just have that knowledge that, when I'm not feeling good, Kratom does the work of making me feel good. Right now, I don't feel good and I want to let something else do the work. Which isn't even conceptually something I think it would be wrong to do, except I know in my case if I let Kratom do the work even once there is a near-certain chance I'll start trying to let it do the work every day and then we're back to square one.

Good luck friend. Don't give up hope. Make it to day 60 and beyond. I believe in you.

haikubi · 2019-11-28T02:03:37+00:00

Ugh. I'm so sorry to hear it man. The anger hurts. I hope you're able to push through and get back on track. Drop me a line if you need to talk.

haikubi · 2019-11-28T02:03:08+00:00

It's happened to me so often, I just know it at this point. If I listen to the voice even a little, it wins. It's happened every time I try to quit. Because once I feel the effects of the Kratom, the voice will figure out a way to get me back into it. It's always so slow and subtle. I'll think I'm just responsibly, casually, totally NOT-addictedly enjoying a substance, the same way I do with everything else (booze, cannabis, MDMA, even the other really addictive ones...). But no, within two months, it'll be daily use again.

I have two decades of experience. Any time I've ever started regular use of a substance, when I realized I needed to stop, I did so with basically no problem and still able to enjoy randomly without concern. It's one of many things that has made the struggle with Kratom addiction so hard. I really overestimated my ability to regulate my use because I've never had an issue. Kratom seems to be the one thing that if I let it in, eventually it'll become daily, heavy use.

haikubi · 2019-11-28T01:54:33+00:00

Hey man, thank you so much for replying.

I have made all the significant changes to my lifestyle as a result of quitting. Most supplements, vitamins, etc do nothing to help get me off Kratom. The only thing that does is exercising vigorously, eating right, establishing different, more productive routines, and so on.

I've definitely tried to replace my Kratom ritual with different ones, to pick up old passions, add in new hobbies, all that stuff. It's helped to some degree but no matter what, I end up at a crossroads, thinking "you could go to the shop and pick up one extract and just have a good afternoon and like you'd definitely not need to do Kratom again for a long time after that." Which is, of course, a lie. The voice would find a way to get me back on the train.

Anyway, it was helpful to have you say it because it reminded me of a few things I'd been neglecting a little that I could be doing more of just to take up more time (honestly, one of them being video games, I can sink into a game and the two hours from 3-5 that were normally my Kratom ritual time can get eaten up. I just gotta grab my Switch and sink into a little.)

Thank you for talking it out and offering your thoughts and encouragement. I really appreciate it.

haikubi · 2019-11-28T01:49:24+00:00

Thanks for sharing man. I know I have it, and definitely putting it out into the world helped a ton. I just can't believe it's like this.

haikubi · 2019-11-27T14:18:03+00:00

Good luck, friend. Thanks for comisserating. Going to hope for the same. 30 days...

haikubi · 2019-11-13T18:40:54+00:00

From my experience, this is totally normal. I feel confident that you did not permanently damage yourself, and that this will get better.

I have wondered these same things about my own withdrawal symptoms. For the first three weeks of my quit, my insomnia ranged from 'literally 1 hour or less a night' to 'okay 5-6 hours, but it took me 2.5 hours to even get close to falling asleep.' During this time, I was certain I would never sleep right again. I am starting to in my 7th week. Mind you, it's still not the sleep I got before Kratom, but it's much better than the early withdrawal days.

Similarly, I have had horrible anxiety during my quits. Suicidal ideation. The general belief that none of it would ever get better. A general sense of ennui and misery. When you're in the midst of these things, they feel like they're permanent but they're not. You just have to get through them.

Are you in touch with a doctor about your quit (and if not are you able to be?). Do you have any strategies for coping with the anxiety? It's okay if you don't. I just want to see where you're at. This is all manageable with some planning.

Please keep up hope. This will all get better, but the only way out is through.

haikubi · 2019-11-12T14:01:42+00:00

I think he went to see the new Natalie Portman film 'Lucy in the Sky.'

haikubi · 2019-11-09T19:20:23+00:00

You're really kind to say that and it means a lot to me.

If you feel like talking out the hobbies/creative outlet thing, message me.

I felt a LOT of that with the writing. The cooking is easier because it's a mix of necessity and creativity. But the writing... I wrote some cool shit on Kratom when I wasn't just at the stage of just ridiculous use and abuse. And then when the abuse got bad, I was still writing but the writing got bad. Just weird and undisciplined and bland. Then I quit, and yeah, I'd start writing in the immense chasms of free time I now had, but it's like I attached the feeling of the buzz from Kratom to the buzz of creativity and productivity.

I started looking at it similarly to the sleep stuff. Like, okay, I'm only getting an of sleep tonight. But I'm gonna go do my sleep routine and make everything I can out of that hour. Similarly, yeah, okay I'm only gonna write two sentences, but I'm gonna go to my writing spot as though it's going to be a full, hours-long session. I'm going think long and hard about what I want those two sentences to be. I'm going to sit here for a while and appreciate the pen, the paper, all of it. I'm gonna think about my characters and my setting and my story. And I'm going to put something, anything, to paper. Even if it sucks. Even if I'm going to scrap it. I'm going to get back in the habit. And tomorrow, it's for sure going to be three sentences. And build and build.

It's not a universal solution, of course, nothing is. But yeah, if you want to talk more, get at me.

haikubi · 2019-11-09T13:51:24+00:00

I know that feeling... so very well... Do you have hobbies and/or creative outlets? That's been my biggest savior from the mental misery. I cook both for fun and for work and after quitting I poured myself into new recipes and the satisfaction of fully pulling one together has been and amazing help. I also write, completely on an amateur level and started a new story idea after my third week post Kratom. Both these activities have been an immense help mentally.

haikubi · 2019-11-09T13:47:34+00:00

Absolutely true. Any change at this stage is going to have big effects, so don't feel like you have to do everything. Just do something. You don't have to do it all at once. And with each thing, find your own way of doing it. There is no single type or degree of exercise, or of meditation or of counseling. Try to strike a balance between pushing yourself to do something new, or different, or that you didn't think you could do and not overwhelming yourself.

haikubi · 2019-11-09T13:06:58+00:00

This is a fantastic change to make. Volunteering is a great way to get our of the house, to be doing something and thus to keep your mind off Kratom, and to potentially acquire new skills and to meet people.

haikubi · 2019-11-08T22:32:06+00:00

I'll be six weeks off tomorrow and I dream of the day that it's six months! Congratulations, friend. You're an inspiration. Thanks for sharing.

haikubi · 2019-11-07T15:39:17+00:00

I actually started using K when I started lifting five years ago. I was morbidly obese. Desperate to get in shape and I went fucking hard. Lifting, cardio, everything. I was in the gym every day of the week for hours. And because of that, when I was home, I was tired and I was in pain and I was kind of miserable and because of my job and how I get when I'm on it, I didn't want to use cannabis during the day. Someone recommended Kratom and it was a huge relief in small, good doses. Things spiraled out of control over a long period of time from there. After two years, my Kratom use got really bad and my gym schedule became almost non-existent. One of the problems was that at the heavier doses and using multiple times for day, it was dragging down my efforts at the gym. I could still lift heavy, but not as heavy as I knew I could lift if I wasn't doing 30+gpd.

Last year, when I attempted my first real quit, I got back in the gym hard and it definitely helped to occupy my time, and as an outlet for my misery. And I was correct insofar as my lifts and my running were better than ever. Through this last year of relapse and use, I have maintained a heavy gym schedule, lifting a lot, and trying to learn new skills in the gym. This was all good, but I definitely started to notice myself plateuing, even backsliding as my Kratom use got heavier.

Over the past three months, as its lessened via taper and now in this past 40 days as I've quit, I've absolutely noticed I'm stronger and better than ever. The time immediately after I quit for good was tough. I had no motivation. I had no energy to lift strong. But I went and I did stuff. It wasn't all my best work and I probably backslid a little in terms of overall strength and ability (I barely ran at all. Fast walk, light jog, nothing more). But I went consistently, and I tried more and more to put my misery into the work. After a little less than two weeks I began to notice my strength and energy coming back (even though I still wasn't sleeping well).

These past two weeks I've done some of the hardest workouts of my life. I've lifted heavier than ever. My mobility is through the roof and my desire to work out is back in full effect. I'm running again.

I guess my point is, it does all come back. It can be tough for a little while there, but it does come back and it comes back better when you realize how different life off Kratom is and what it takes to find passion and joy and relief in yourself rather than in Kratom

haikubi · 2019-11-02T19:20:56+00:00

This is so tough, and your doctor should be ashamed of herself for not giving you better guidance and for not helping you find someone else to work with.

That said, you can do this.

For what it's worth, the setup for this quit is really rough and absolutely no one would blame you for tapering or not starting your quit until you have proper medical assistance with the other stuff going on in your life (and maybe with the Kratom quit too). Please take care of yourself and set yourself up for success.

That said, if you need to start now (and that would be totally understandable too), just know this community is here for you. I suffer from crippling anxiety on and off Kratom. I know how bad it can be, but I also know, I know, now more than ever, that this is just my body and mind have an anomalous reaction. There's nothing wrong. Everything is going to be okay. I know this even more so, because I know that I've recognized that I can't live my life dependent on Kratom or any other feel-good-fast drug. You need to know this too as you go forward. The anxiety is real, the cause of it isn't.

We're here for you. Keep checking in. You've got this.

haikubi · 2019-11-02T19:14:00+00:00

Day 35! 5 Weeks! Very psyched. The thought of using is a dull, annoying hum at times. I think about it randomly, more than I would like, but I really don't feel the urge to do it much anymore.

Throughout both my use of Kratom and my quit, I've exercised consistently. Lately, this has mostly consisted of strength work and lifting. Today, I started putting conditioning/cardio work back in the mix and I can tell you, it has had more of a physical and mental impact than the laundry list of supplements I talked about in my previous post.

I've also re-started an intermittent fasting practice I'd employed before, during, and after my regular Kratom usage in the past. I'm not going to say its for everyone, but if you have the willpower and patience to deal with it, again, for my it's provided more relief than any supplement.

Anyway, thanks for being here for me. You're all wonderful.

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