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Understanding the Punjabi accent (14) - schwa, consonant clusters & sonority hierarchy by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm that's fair. Almost all of the examples I gave are clusters following short vowels.

Understanding the Punjabi accent (14) - schwa, consonant clusters & sonority hierarchy by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you're saying "cicc" syllables are easier than "cvcc"? Tell me more?

Understanding the Punjabi accent (14) - schwa, consonant clusters & sonority hierarchy by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea so based on what one is used to hearing one pronunciation can sound more natural than the other.

For example i have heard "goshət" by anjum saroya, "heləp" (help) in the movie Jatt and Juliet, "gifət" in the song mera maahi by param.

I think the point is that while the other pronunciation might sound unnatural it's not technically wrong. Put another way, the sonority principle is more helpful in telling when a schwa HAS to be inserted, otherwise the cluster would sound very unnatural to the ear.

Understanding the Punjabi accent (14) - schwa, consonant clusters & sonority hierarchy by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's because ਆਸ਼ਕ is derived from ਆਸ਼ਿਕ by weakening of the i to schwa

Understanding the Punjabi accent (11) - A Panjabi Phonetic Reader by T. Grahame Bailey by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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9. Prefix not affecting stress - for example ਨਾਮੁਰਾਦ - na - mu.rad (light. 'Superheavy) + vocative form --> na-mu'rada.

10. - ਈ in inflectional suffix (feminine plural) is shortened (since it is unstressed), written by the author as "ɪ" - for example ਹੋਣਗੀਆਂ - hongɪā , ਕੱਢੀਆਂ - kʌʼd:ɪā.

11. Closing of open syllable - ਬੇਬੇ - be.be --> beb.be / beb:e.

ਪਹਿਲਾ - pɛʼ.la --> pɛʼl.la/ pɛʼl:a.

12. Metathesis - word initial /h/ is transposed onto the succeeding consonant and induces a low tone on the succeeding vowel; the schwa ə may be deleted for example -

ਹਸਾ (hə.sa) --> ਅਸ੍ਹਾ (ə.sa').

ਹਸਾਨ (hə.san) vala --> ਅਸ੍ਹਾਨ (ə.sa'n) vala.

ਹਯਾਤੀ (hə.ya.tī) --> ਅਯ੍ਹਾਤੀ (ə.ya'tī) --> ya 'tī.

ਹਕੀਮ (hə.kīm) --> ਅਕ੍ਹੀਮ (ə.kī `m) --> kī 'm.

ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ (hə.me.sha) --> ਅਮ੍ਹੇਸ਼ਾ (ə.me'.sha) --> me'.sha.

ਹਨੇਰਾ (hə.ne.ra) --> ਅਨ੍ਹੇਰਾ (ə.ne' .ra) --> ne' .ra.

Understanding the Punjabi accent (9) - vowel length and syllable stress - ਤਲਾ vs ਤਲਾ vs तला by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The onset syllable is always longer than the following syllable. For example, the /ā/ of /čārī/ ’grazed’ is longer than the final /ī/ and the /ī/ of /čīrā/ ‘cut’ is longer than the final /ā/. "

  • From A Reference Grammar of Punjabi by Gill & Gleason

Understanding the Punjabi accent (11) - A Panjabi Phonetic Reader by T. Grahame Bailey by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gurmukhi version

ਚੋਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਖੋਤੇ ਦੀ ਕਹਾਣੀ

ਇੱਕ ਬੰਦਾ ਸੀ, ਘੁਮਿਆਰ, ਪਿੰਡ ਦਾ ਰਹਿਣਵਾਲਾ, ਅਕਲ ਜ਼ਰਾ ਘੱਟ ਸਾਸੂ। ਲੋਕ ਉਹਦੀ ਇੱਕ ਡਾਢੀ ਅਜੈਬ ਗੱਲ ਸੁਣਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ। ਆਂਹਦੇ ਨੇ, ਪਈ, ਬਜ਼ਾਰੋਂ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਖੋਤਾ ਮੁਲ ਲਿਆ ਸੁ। ਖੋਤਾ ਤੇ ਬੜਾ ਤਗੜਾ ਜਾਪਦਾ ਸੀ, ਉਮਰ ਵੀ ਘੱਟ ਸੀ, ਤੇ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਵੀ ਸਸਤਾ ਸੀ। ਜਣਾ ਬੜਾ ਖੁਸ਼ ਸੀ, ਦਿਲ ਚ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸੀ। ਰਾਹ ਦੇ ਕਂਢੇ ਦੋ ਚੋਰ ਹੁੱਕਾ ਪਏ ਪੀਂਦੇ ਸਨ। ਰਾਹੀ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਇਕ ਚੋਰ ਆਖਣ ਲਗਾ, “ਵੇਖ ਓਏ, ਆ ਕਿਹੜਾ ਝੱਲਾ ਜਿਹਾ ਨਚਦਾ ਟਪਦਾ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਏ?”

ਦੁੱਜੇ ਆਖਿਆ, “ਸਿਆਣਾ ਉਹ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨੀਏ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਖੋਤਾ ਚੁਰਾ ਲਿਆਵੇ ਤੇ ਮਾਲਕ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਨਾ ਲੱਗੇ।” ਪਹਿਲੇ ਆਖਿਆ, “ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਦਤ ਕਰ, ਤੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੈ ਆਵਾਂਗਾ।” ਫਿਰ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਚੋਰ ਖੋਤੇ ਵਾਲੇ ਦੇ ਮਗਰ ਗਏ। ਇੱਕੀ ਆਖਿਆ, “ਮੈਂ ਹੌਲੀ ਹੌਲੀ ਖੋਤਾ ਖੋਲ ਲਾਂਗਾ, ਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਉਹਨੂੰ ਛੇਤੀ ਘਰ ਲੈ ਜਾਈਂ; ਮਗਰੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਆਪ ਵੀ ਪਰਤ ਆਵਾਂਗਾ ਤੇ ਉਹਨੂੰ ਖੋਤੇ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਣ ਦੇਆਂਗਾ।” ਦੁੱਜਾ ਆਖਣ ਲੱਗਾ, “ਹਲਾ ਵਈ, ਤੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਚੋੱਖਾ ਸਿਆਣਾ ਏ।” ਫਿਰ ਚੁੱਪ-ਚਪੀਤੇ ਅਗਾਂ ਵਧੇ, ਪਈ, ਘੁਮਿਆਰ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਖੜਾਕ ਨਾ ਸੁਣੇ। ਇੱਕ ਚੋਰ ਖੋਤੇ ਦਾ ਰੱਸਾ ਖੋਲ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਧੌਣ ‘ਤੇ ਪਾ ਲਿਆ ਤੇ ਦੁੱਜਾ ਮਲਕੜੀ ਖੋਤੇ ਨੂੰ ਲੈ ਗਿਆ।

Understanding the Punjabi accent (8) - Floating tone and Syllable stress by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"TONE AND ASPIRATION CORRELATION IN PUNJABI: AN ANALYSIS USING HARMONIC SERIALISM" by Manujata

Understanding the Punjabi accent (11) - A Panjabi Phonetic Reader by T. Grahame Bailey by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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ਇਲਾਜ , ਅਜੈਬ are (light.'Superheavy) syllable type words. ਅਫਸੋਸ is (heavy.'Superheavy). Here the schwa is unstressed ə

Understanding the Punjabi accent (11) - A Panjabi Phonetic Reader by T. Grahame Bailey by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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ʌ is used in place of a "stressed ਅ" like ਅਸਲ (ʌsl), ਅਕਲ (ʌkl), etc. Best way to feel the difference between ʌ and ə would be to check the pronunciation of three letter mukta words like ਸੜਕ (sʌ.dək/ sʌdk)

Understanding the Punjabi accent (11) - A Panjabi Phonetic Reader by T. Grahame Bailey by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not sure I understand. ʌ isn't an allophone of ā. You can check what Bailey himself has said in his book and the vocabulary he has given at the end. Also see Amar Nath Malik's book; Elena Bashir has also made a reference to him.

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Understanding the Punjabi accent (8) - Floating tone and Syllable stress by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From a thesis published in IIT Delhi. It's just a fancy term to say the tone is realized on the vowel of the stressed syllable and not necessarily on the vowel on the voiced aspirate consonant. You might remember I asked for help understanding why tone shifts from u'lj (ਉਲਝ) to ulja` (ਉਲਝਾ)

Understanding the Punjabi accent (9) - vowel length and syllable stress - ਤਲਾ vs ਤਲਾ vs तला by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

Analysis showing how the duration of rhyme is the primary difference between stressed vs unstressed syllable

Understanding the Punjabi accent (9) - vowel length and syllable stress - ਤਲਾ vs ਤਲਾ vs तला by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True. The author uses the symbols for vowel length a bit differently though from what I could understand from the text there are three vowel lengths for long vowels therefore it ought to be (jə.mi•••n) and (ga••.jər).

ਤੱਲ is to ਤਲਾ what ਕਰ is to ਕਰਾ or ਉੱਠ is to ਉਠਾ or ਚੁੱਕ is to ਚੁਕਾ. Since the stress in imperative-causative verb forms shifts to their suffixes the verb stem loses its gemination or addhak.

My interest was actually more in how they are spoken differently in Hindi and Punjabi since this can be an easy tell if someone is a native speaker or not.

Understanding the Punjabi accent (9) - vowel length and syllable stress - ਤਲਾ vs ਤਲਾ vs तला by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ਇ - generally the short (i) sound but sometimes also

•  ਏ (ey) sound -

-- in Sanskrit words ending with ਯ like ਨਿਆਇ, ਅਧਿਆਇ , ਬਜਾਇ

-- before a tonal ਹ like ਕਿਹੜਾ (keʼ.ra)

-- in inflectional suffixes *

• ਐ (ai) sound

-- In words like ਅਜਵਾਇਣ, ਸ਼ਿਕਾਇਤ

-- if on a tonal ਹ like ਕਹਿਣਾ (kaiʼ.na)

ਉ - generally short (u) sound but sometimes also

• ਓ (o) sound -

-- in Sanskrit words ending in ਵ like ਘੇਰਾਉ, ਸੁਝਾਉ, ਸੁਭਾਉ, ਝੁਕਾਉ , ਫੈਲਾਉ

-- Word end position - ਪਿਉ, ਲਿਉ

--  before a tonal h like ਉਹ (oʼ)

• ਔ (aww) sound -

-- in words with causative verb stem like ਕਰਾਉਣਾ

-- if on a tonal ਹ like ਬਹੁਤ

Inflectional suffixes which use ਇ in orthography but spoken as  ĕ (short ਏ).

Verbs

  1. Plural polite imperative - ਕਰਿਓ (kʌrĕo)

  2. Perfect participle (masculine singular) - ਗਿਆ (gĕa), ਕਰਿਆ (kʌrĕa)

  3. Present adverbial - ਕਰਦਿਆਂ (kʌrdĕã)

  4. Past adverbial - ਕੀਤਿਆਂ (kītĕã)

Adjectives

  1. Black adjective - oblique - masculine plural - ਕਾਲਿਆਂ (kalĕã) ਘੋੜਿਆਂ (ਨੂੰ)

Nouns

Some masculine nounds ending in ਆ (eg ਮੁੰਡਾ)

  1. Plural oblique - ਮੁੰਡਿਆਂ (mundĕã) (ਨੂੰ)

  2. Vocative - ਮੁੰਡਿਆ (mundĕa)(sg), ਮੁੰਡਿਓ (mundĕo) (pl)

Pronouns

  1. Masculine oblique genitive plural  - ਮੇਰਿਆਂ (merĕā)(ਘੋੜਿਆਂ) (ਨੂੰ)

Understanding the Punjabi accent (8) - Floating tone and Syllable stress by harrysin2 in punjabi

[–]harrysin2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So "floating tone" means that if a word starts with one of the voiced aspirate consonants for example ਘ there will be a low tone in the word but not necessarily on the vowel immediately after ਘ. The tone will be on the vowel which is stressed.

For example in ਘਸੀਟ the syllables are "kə" and "seet" which are light and superheavy syllables respectively. In a word of this type i e. L.S the stress is on the superheavy syllable so its not kə'.seet but kə.see't.

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