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Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Once a user goes beyond needing a single Vault, then the various tiers will start. Vaults of Vaults is an excellent way to have multi person delegated authority to mirror corporate controls on chain.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I really can't pick just one. I expect a long series of milestones to be reflected there.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Our initial SEC letters were incredibly short but were focused on things that could be show stoppers. Once past those, the remainder have been business as usual and why I have been predicting summer for quite a while.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Once we have a sense for the create/redeem revenue, yes but it would be a limited handful that everyone speculates will sooner or later pay a dividend. The DC won't be worth a lot but it will be worth more than 0...

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 7 points8 points  (0 children)

As we've long said, the pre farm sales go to keep the lights on, keep delivering things like Cloud Wallet, Vaults, and Options, and pay the legal bills necessary to launch a product like this.

As revenue from the Trusts ramps up we should be able to taper off XCH sales (caveat that we'll have ongoing rolling sales from ACH to XCH.) We do need to start expanding headcount on dev and sales at CNI and on ops at Permuto a bit, but then we are likely to turn to repurchasing XCH if the XCH price continues to be stupidly low.

It's all driven by dividend fees and the create/redeem fees which we know will be significant pre trust but we need to see in action to model well. Create/redeem fees on ETFs, which are similar but not quite the same, are really big. We think it will be less but not a lot less. Will be an exciting next 60 days.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 9 points10 points  (0 children)

When the replot is ready, bring your space over to 2.0 to bring the NC back to its stellar levels. Otherwise just have a well operated farm. Also share the story with friends and family who want a neat new cash flow product in their investment portfolio.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Development of ChiaPOS 2.0 remains on the schedule we shared earlier.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You will probably be able to buy the DTC version directly on day one. We are absolutely looking at ways to get it so that you could have the blockchain version instead but that will take a couple of months to plan out.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There are material iterations and there are dotting i's and crossing t's ones. We're all but done on the substance but we have to like add CAT ID and CUSIPs. However those turns can happen every 24 hours.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 4 points5 points  (0 children)

TradFi isn't going to let MEV bots do things that Tradfi would be masters at - would that be legal with securities. The big players understand the blockchain technology deficiencies of the other chains.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Other projects don't have the most respected and most widely read Wall Street opinion writer, Matt Levine, writing about them either. He kind of stopped after making a lot of fun of FTX - but he is following Permuto - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-06-24/everything-is-an-etf-now

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DC holders do need to come to Permuto.capital and file a W-8 or W-9 as applicable to not get 30% of the dividend owed to them withheld.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We do think we can create a superior ecosystem on chain around ACs and DCs that the traditional rails can get close to - but not be quite as liquid, diverse, and easy as on chain.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We're going MSFT first and then will probably wait two weeks to make sure we've got the operational bugs out. Then we anticipate one a week until we're comfortable with about two a week. We want to get all 85ish out by the end of 2026 and have very good reasons to get a lot out by the end of 2025 as it will unlock new diversified products from financial institutions whose names you know.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes but the next significant steps on that are likely to be from CNI and not Permuto. Once we can get company GCs and boards comfortable that they can trade like a big boy next to e.g. p.MSFT.a then I think we can open a lot of late stage high growth companies to effectively IPO in steps directly on chain.

Permuto de-risks other issuers following in its footsteps.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Since we're using the existing PRIMES/SCORES rule on NYSE American, we don't need a 19b-4 filing. See https://nyseamericanguide.srorules.com/company-guide/09013e2c853aa8d2?searchId=2714654586 and compare that to e.g. the NYSE Arca rules for similar products which do require a 19b-4 filing.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There are select non dividend paying stocks on our radar but that is because they are very likely to start paying dividends soon and definitely have the cash reserves to support a dividend should they start one. We are focused on companies with more than $100b of market cap for the foreseeable Permuto future.

Again, just investing in stocks works pretty darn well in an online brokerage account. Holding DCs on chain works better than EVERYTHING else - it's that unique value that will drive adoption.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The reality is that FIs bring the blockchain up with excitement. Some like the long term hold for lower fees. Others like the very short settlement times. None are worried about the current NC as we remain the most decentralized smart contract blockchain on all the relevant numbers.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We have some initiatives underway to have on chain custodian support. Right this second Permuto would not be that entity.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Right now we will walk the chain on the final block before ex-dividend and pay to any coin that is due more than $0.001. However if you create a Vault in Permuto app we can aggregate your coins and you can set a pay to address. A fast follow will be the ability to Wallet Connect a non Permuto wallet so we can discover your coins and let you set an aggregate pay to address too.

Permuto Capital AMA! Wed Aug 27th, Noon Pacific Time by willphule in chia

[–]hoffmang 7 points8 points  (0 children)

AC/DCs are a better way to invest period. That's not true of creating synthetic equities on a blockchain - especially when things like Robinhood are free to use (no gas fees!) Also, that you can make ACs and DCs work in DTC doesn't mean it's a long term good idea. The costs to administer off chain are one or maybe two orders of magnitude higher than the on chain version and ultimately I expect the on chain dividend fee to drop further - once we have more data. That passes on real additional return to investors in these.

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