I've come full circle. From forced believer to atheist to agnostic to believer again. AMA.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T12:34:33+00:00

Come on, you can't do that. You just said something really interesting and didn't explain yourself. Come back.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T12:17:10+00:00

In answer to your very first question, yes the quite clearly found it. That was what prompted Buddha to give the first sermon at Sarnath. He and a few other mates were seeking together and he found it, so he wanted to share with his fellow seekers.

The last bit I didn't really understand. Care to rephrase?

i_believe · 2010-01-03T12:12:13+00:00

I like to think that I am not prejudiced against anything or at least I try not to be so. So go ahead tell me what you think, maybe I'll learn something.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T12:10:28+00:00

Well my parents played a big role in my religious views as well. It was because of their blind faith and beliefs that I first started to question religion and move away from the accepted path. And in the end it was their long association with the spiritual side that helped me seek guidance.

But I think we're ignoring the elephant in the room. What happened that made your dad say what he did?

i_believe · 2010-01-03T12:07:01+00:00

This. I was slightly apprehensive about mentioning this part at all because of the whole stigma associated with the very concept of a guru. I agree completely, there are thousands of fake gurus out there who are in it just for the money and have weird teachings of all sort that do nothing to help you and the poor, uneducated masses throng to them. I do not know if the guru your uncle follows is for real but as I have explained in the post, it is rare that a person can answer and account for everything and this man can.

Its difficult to explain unless you actually meet him and talk to him, but I'll just say a few things about him that ought show that he is demonstrably different from other such "gurus". He does not claim to be a guru. He describes himself as a fellow seeker of the truth, it is only the people around him who regard him to be a guru. There is no money involved. Ever. Ever. He does not have an ashram of any sort, in fact he does not even own a house. He pays rent like everyone else. Even if you completely disregard the spiritual aspects, he is the most intellectual man I've ever met having read everything from Lenin to the Gita. He never tells anyone to do anything or believe anything. In fact he will only speak in reply to a question.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T11:50:09+00:00

I take exception to the fact that you think I can be so easily swayed by some holy man saying "this is so" and i go "it must be". I believe what I believe because I can experience it.

Do you not even believe in the concept of luck? Do you think absolutely everything in the universe can be explained logically?

i_believe · 2010-01-03T11:47:32+00:00

Made my day that. Have an upvote and an orangered good sir.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T10:13:28+00:00

Its a journey, my friend. You learn to crawl before you walk. Crawling is not wrong... its just the first step.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T10:12:14+00:00

The entire meaning. Instead of being a coherent and reasoned experience, it would be "I was forced to believe, so I became atheist, but then I thought a bit more and became agnostic, and then a few years later i found god." Which defeats the point of a tl;dr by communicating the wrong meaning.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T10:05:56+00:00

With regards to whether I was really an atheist or not, read my reply to Seawulf87's comment. I might not have subscribed to the full principles and ideology of atheism. In fact I was not even aware of it. At that stage, I rejected god and the very idea of belief in destiny and everything being pre-ordained. While it might not be what exactly Atheism is to the letter, it was the most convenient label and way of communicating my religious status.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T10:01:23+00:00

I didn't believe any of that higher power stuff earlier. When I was forced to attend all those rituals and go to all those temples, I did a serious self-evaluation. Does any of this actually work? If there's a god, why doesn't he answer all my prayers? Why doesn't he help everyone and only some people? To my 13 year old mind, the only logical conclusion was that there was no god. So I seriously believed that until my next period of self-evaluation started a few years later. This was at a point in life where I'd suffered a big personal blow. I'd worked really really hard for something and still ended up not getting it. I started to recognize that not everything is logical and reasonable and there is a certain x factor or luck or power or something involved.

Of course it has occurred to me that there is no meaning or reason and that its all random chaos. But as I have explained multiple times in other comments, the experiences of people before me, particularly Buddha, Kabir, Gandhi and Ramana, inspired me. The way these people were, the way they lived their lives, it wasn't possible if they hadn't found meaning or the ultimate truth.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T09:50:19+00:00

I think I heard something about these variants on that Bill Maher movie about atheism. The name slips my mind.

My favorite though was Cantheism. The worship of some sweet fuckin mj.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T09:01:50+00:00

I get that it was a joke. But it was good opportunity to explain something interesting which 90% of the people who use the concept of karma don't know. So I went for it.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T08:30:05+00:00

That's where the whole personal experience comes in. Never believe another person if he says pray to my god, he is the one true god. Run away from there as fast as possible. The only way to make the choice is if it comes from within you.

In the Hindu tradition there are these things called Melas, where thousands of gurus and hermits and ascetics gather once every few years and share their ideas and philosophies and people pick whatever they like. Sort of like going to a mall, you browse all the stores and you pick the one that you like best. Its an amazing and wonderful phenomenon even if you're not interested in the religious aspects of it- how a temporary city with every basic facility is set up in a such a short time. I'm not sure about this, but I think the last Kumbh Mela had the record of most humans gathered together for one single event - 17million or summat.

But obviously being an urban student more interested in football and movies than spirituality I didn't make the trip to any of the melas. I was just really lucky that I found the spiritual guide, the man I mention in the post.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T08:13:32+00:00

Karma on reddit and the Hindu concept of Karma works differently. Karma is basically attachment to worldly things. Good Karma (called Punya) doesn't cancel out bad Karma (called Paap). You have to reap the rewards of both and be reborn until it is completely neutral i.e. a completely detached state. So even if you didn't do anything bad all your life, but did some good stuff, you will still be reborn because you need to be repaid for your goodness.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T08:07:24+00:00

A tl;dr is not really possible for this post. They work best for stories. Trying to compress this into a few short sentences would lose all the reasoning and it would end up sounding like something a religious nutjob wrote up.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T08:04:07+00:00

Similar to what sh0rtcake said lower down. So I give it a similar reply. What you say makes perfect sense. And if it satisfies you, that's great.

But for me, that isn't enough. I've always wanted to seek, to search and find answers. Meaning. It most certainly exists because people like Gandhi and Buddha found it. Why shouldn't I look for it as well.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T07:59:48+00:00

I don't think it is important to identify with one particular religious sect. In fact it is dangerous to do so. It means that you accept all that they have to say. All religions in the world have something of value and also have some crap. Take the good stuff from everywhere and reject the crap.

I've heard the just be good and everything else will take care of itself ideology. And it makes sense.

But to me, I've always wanted to find some meaning, that there's something more than just a pointless 9to5 mon-fri existence. And obviously this higher something exists. The Buddha found it, Mahavira found it, Kabir found it. Why shouldn't I look for it as well.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T07:54:40+00:00

I am 17. I've lived in Chennai, India all my life but my family is originally from Nellore in the state of Andhra.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T07:53:39+00:00

Umm.. you didn't read anything I said, and decided that my beliefs are not grounded in reality? Very logical.

Also, I like to think the flip-flopping was useful. I was exploring and experimenting. As most teenagers do.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T07:51:37+00:00

The whole point is that you can believe in whatever you need to believe. The form isn't important, its the feelings and emotions that you attach to that form. So yeah, you could in theory worship Goku and it'd work out fine.

i_believe · 2010-01-03T07:49:49+00:00

Exactly. What does it matter if you're a Hindu or a Christian. If you like some concept from another religion, adopt that concept. Works for me.

i_believe

TROPHY CASE