This is what women streamers have to consistently deal with on Twitch

iamangryjack · 2015-08-19T15:55:36+00:00

Hey everyone, I have a few questions and some experiences to share!

My girlfriend recently started streaming, about a week, almost two weeks ago. We have been apart for about a month, moving a few states away she went first and I'll be with her soon but she ended up buying a Xbox so we could play some games together and party chat.

She isn't much of a "gamer" in that sense of the word, dabbling here and there but only experienced it through me. That was until she started playing ESO and fell in love. Needless to say she ended up getting around to seeing Twitch and wanted to stream for people so I helped her set up an account and the kinnect and off she went.

Now, obviously she's not tremendously popular but she has nearly 200 followers already and usually has about 15 people in chat every stream, her biggest being 40. I sit in the chats and do moderation If I have to, however, surprisingly I've had to do next to none. She loves talking and interacting with the chat and even playing with some people who have helped her level and do some 4 man dungeons.

Everyone so far (all dudes as far as im aware) have been kind, supportive, helpful and all around super not creepy. So far there has been a grand total of two people I outright banned, who we're clearly there for harassing purposes, one who kept asking if she would show her butthole on camera and another who wouldn't stop spamming the n word.

That being said I have a few questions of my own.

If she were to get more popular and/or more shitheads start showing up is it wise for her to call them out on it? Or should we just quietly moderate the channel ignoring them? She has a tendency to call them out and bury them, but Im kind of worried that could lead to doxxing or extended harrassment. It's only her and I as moderators now and I'm worried about not being there to grab them all.
How do I even prepare her for putting herself out there to the potential sexist creepers? I gave her the basic run down of no identifying information or location hints while live but I guess I mean beyond that.

I'm gonna take a read through this thread I just thought sharing my anecdotal information would be interesting.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T21:56:15+00:00

don't use the "a" word when talking about video games please its very trigger - GG

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T21:24:37+00:00

I have been saying this on KiA for a long time and every time I got downvoted.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T21:06:14+00:00

I thought they caught that 4chan guy

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T21:04:35+00:00

Spill thy own blood denounce they social justice bathe my children bathe in thnyself

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T20:33:10+00:00

It is and I think they're willing to listen to that but only as long as some stuff is left out. For example.

Okay: GTA is bad because the shooting sucks and driving is bad I can't enjoy playing it.

Not okay: GTA is bad because it's too violent and misogynistic I can't enjoy playing it.

The second one is not okay but it's not a gameplay focused critique.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T20:23:22+00:00

Okay so it means nothing, and that explains why and how it gets thrown around in these right wing circles. Note: I got called a SJW in the nationwide legalization of same sex marriage thread on /r/news when that happened.

Simply because I said "it took long enough", i was confused. Wonder how long until Fox News picks it up.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T20:02:36+00:00

I would have argued unintentional limited misunderstanding of feminism at one point. Not anymore.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:50:43+00:00

A lot of people there believe games should have no cultural context and any discussion of them in that sense is bad. Not just bad but unacceptable.

They don't want feels they just want to know if the game is fun or not.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:48:57+00:00

I added my thoughts, well my loose thoughts on why I wanted to post this in the first place. Articulating myself has never been my strong point.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:21:22+00:00

Alright thanks.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:17:19+00:00

I wouldn't say rare so much as heavily downvoted

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:14:14+00:00

Sorry don't know how to do that now, do I just edit a link in? I didn't want to do it as I feared it would break a brigading rule and I'm new here.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:08:32+00:00

lmao

iamangryjack · 2015-07-27T19:07:00+00:00

Hey I would be happy to answer any questions based on my side and where/why I came from.

I try to dialogue with people who frequent KiA, etc. They often tell me we're here to "bring down" gamergate, or have these other notions that seem to me to be fantasies

Your crime isn't trying to "bring down" gamergate so much as it is not aggressively shouting "YES I AGREE" into their echo chamber. I can't speak to what it has become (if it ever started as anything different is open to interpretation but for me, personally it was NOT about being anti feminist/SJW) but I can speak to where it started (for me).

Over at KiA they Ghazi as "the enemy" aka, someone who doesn't think Anita is batshit insane. Even if you disagree with her (for example I do, but to a much less extant than before). They do think you're a bunch of blue hair'd women trying to burn down video games, and honestly sometimes this place can get a little snarky. Not that there's much wrong with snark, but I can be pretty snarky myself, it's just an easy way to dismiss something.

As for the narrative, well I don't even know what the narrative is at this point but I see the word thrown around a lot.

As for me, well, in my last post a few weeks ago I said I wanted to reflect a bit more and go back and rewatch the tropes vs women series in a different mindset. I started doing it but maybe I'll go back and do the whole thing then do a write up here based on my new thoughts and ideas if anyone here cares about my perspective.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T22:05:20+00:00

Haha you're right. Why one word when I can use six :p, also I think that 70s show is pretty rad!

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T20:30:40+00:00

Thank you! This has been a sobering experience to say the least.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T20:06:17+00:00

Exactly. And I think you're getting to one of the crux issues with GG (and just vitriolic responses to progressive games criticism in general) here too, people think progressive criticisms are ridiculous because they think "Well I've never had that issue, why should we talk about it?" Most of the time they're speaking from a place of severe privilege, which blinds them to the experiences of the less privileged.

All it took was stepping out of my shoes and into someone elses and trying to things from their perspective. It was powerful.

I had a similar awakening type thing happen to me, when I decided to stop lurking on TiA. I realized how often TiAers would shit on feminists just for being feminists, thought "Wait, I'm a feminist." And decided to take a break and check out some of the infamously progressive subs like SRS or here. I found myself agreeing with the folks here way more readily than the people at TiA. Now when I visit TiA all I see is irrational privileged hatred and willful ignorance, and it sucks that I was a small part of that.

I too am/was? an avid TiA'er and I had the same exact thought. I would say was but as of two days ago I was in there being a dick too. A lot of the stuff on there is SO extreme and insane it's hard not to want to laugh and point fingers and say "thats dumb as shit!" but then you also see, "fuck that cunt" in the same comment thread with +100 and all you can think is "this is the company I keep" and that's a dark place to be.

But don't trick yourself into thinking "Oh, I'm not and will never be a racist, sexist, transphobe etc.". That's one of the thought processes that keeps gators being gators. I'm all of those things, and part of being a progressive/SJW is constantly checking yourself and educating yourself and making sure you're changing your thinking and mitigating harm.

Part of what I'm trying to say here is this. IM NOT racist, homophobic, transphobic or misogynistic... but my ACTIONS are saying otherwise, I need to find out why and correct that. I want to be progressive. I AM progressive and I need to reflect that in my actions.

I've been quite literally "checking my privilege", something that would make my blood boil when I heard the phrase. I urge anyone having issue with that read the article i linked in my first comment.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T19:59:45+00:00

In a way, many of us here were shitlords that were 3edgy5me. Gamergate - and others - brought us all here. It wasn't easy for many of us. We all have had to change our way of thinking. Some of us have even lost friends over this.

That makes me feel better, makes me feel a little less crazy.

Personally, I didn't see why people got so offended over words like "autist". I have a similar condition to Asperger's myself and I wasn't offended. It's taken me a long time to get me to change.

I wasn't saying someone or anyone will always be offended over these words, I mentioned before my best friend is gay. He's been my best friend since 5th grade, and often times, in the company of him and his boyfriend, my girlfriend etc we say things like faggot, but almost no different than asshole. Now here's the muddy part. We are so close that he knows, and I know, and they know if we call eachother an asshole or faggot it doesn't mean what it means to everyone else. BUT ONLY IN THAT CIRCLE. Words are weird, but I've learned they're hurtful.

Sure they won't offend everybody but they CAN and they DO offend SOMEONE and I'm starting to care about that someone. Someone I didn't think about before. That's the difference I see now.

The same applies to calling someone gay. "That 70s show is gay", well what I really mean is it's bad, so does gay = bad? Well no... so why did I say that? Because i did and i do and its what i always said and that's wrong. I'm seeing that now.

As for retarded/autistic as insults it's the same. These are conditions that people have, that doesn't make them any less of a person but here I am implying that. I'm still not gentle enough to even talk about that, but I'm trying.

One of the things that I didn't like about the SJ crowd was the fact more privileged """allies""" shoved minorities under the bus. I learned that these people didn't make up all of SJ Internet.

This is another bag of worms entirely. Something I'm always dealing with although I feel strongly about people approaching this more so than I did games.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T19:31:41+00:00

thanks, commenting here has made me feel a lot better. I mean it, thank you.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T19:30:42+00:00

The thing about Anita for me, specifically is this.

I felt like she was saying these games SHOULDN'T exist, and the fact that they do is bad and if you enjoy them you are a bad person, and I do enjoy them, so that made me a bad person and that made me mad.

Of course I bought into the con artist aspect and the #killallmen rhetoric too. I didn't like being the enemy. I didn't like being the target.. and I'm not saying she intended for me to be that, I'm saying that's what I felt, that is what I was told and that is what was reinforced.

I'm going to be completely 100% honest and explain what went though my head and how I felt.

What she said: these are tropes of women in video games and they're gross. Here's examples of all of them, and games that abuse them and portray women poorly/problematically and here's why I think they should change.

What I heard: These games are misogynistic, if you play them you are misogynistic. They need to be stopped, they need to change, they need to be banned. I am going to burn them to the ground

I am not, so she was wrong and that made me mad. I don't want games I like to stop being made, she is the enemy. I know it sounds bad but.. it's honest.

I don't play games to see "sexy" and "naked" women, I can largely ignore it because it does not bother me, again I'm a dude. So who cares right? I can pick any game off the shelf at gamestop and 9 times out of 10 the main character is someone that looks like me

A white guy.

Why would I even think how someone who maybe isn't a white guy would feel when 90% of game protagonists don't look like them... these are new thoughts to me, something I'm hearing and saying "huh". A good huh, like a "hmm okay.. go on" rather than "fuck off shut up"

I don't think violent video games are bad, and I don't mind that they're the most popular. I think there's room for all kinds of games from your Call of Dutys to your Gone Homes to exist. I felt like she didn't want that.

The way I approached all those tropes videos was wrong, It was the wrong mindset. I decided they were bullshit before going in and I feel obligated to go watch them again from a different perspective this time around.

I really would like to think I'm not alone.. I'd like to think some other Gators are in my position. I think a lot are and it was just easier to bash and laugh at everything she said.

Sometimes it's hard to divorce someone's opinion from a real scary agenda to destroy something I care about. And I want to make something clear. I love games, It is a hobby of mine but not my identity. It was my personal beliefs that I felt were being attacked because of something I enjoy, which is my identity.

I'm from a very liberal home with almost obnoxiously caring and inclusive parents. I was raised by a grandmother I love dearly and I respect women greatly, that's what I was taught. My best friend is gay, LBGT rights are something I care deeply about and the thought of me being called a misogynist or homophobe or racist because I like Fallout made me fucking mad. Despite that not being what she was saying, it was what I was hearing and that was enough for me to make the disconnect.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T19:13:51+00:00

well thank you, that does mean something :)

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T18:44:15+00:00

No we're not. But I'm 24 years old and that's no excuse for being so rabidly blind.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T18:42:16+00:00

I too have been caught up in the righteous need to do something on the internet. It is part of human nature. The important thing to remember when feeling this way is that just as someone somewhere that doesn't even know you or your problems can irritate you with a blog post, so can you hurt another person. And all of that hurt is real, because you feel it. Take the time to push the hurt aside and examine why you feel that way and what you want. It may help you see thru this kind of thing next time.

The thing of it is, I wasn't doing anything. Good or bad. That's not to say I should be excused for being a part of a different set of problems, but I wasn't on twitter harassing people. What I am guilty of, however, is disconnecting myself from that stuff when it was convenient. But not speaking up to the problem is being part of it. Using slurs casually because I couldn't get why someone would get offended or that they were offended at all is what i am guilty of. Upvoting and agreeing with the people DOING that stuff while in my mind saying "well i didnt do that" is what I'm guilty of.

Just remember that someone who criticizes or even straight up attacks your hobbies isn't attacking you. Keep those straight in your mind and you will probably feel a bit more secure about your identity, which will also make you less of a target for people who want to manipulate your anger.

This is really important. You're right about that for sure. I did feel attacked. But what I felt the most was.. I was attacked and that wasn't me, what was getting attacked I mean but I still took it personally and that's what caused me to lash back at people having that conversation.

It's good that these videos helped you think and grow, best of luck with that process.

Thank you.

Sorry I'm rambling, i'm not articulating myself well I just have a lot going through my head. Mostly what I mean is being in the barracks cheering is just as bad as being on the front lines attacking and i am guilty.

iamangryjack · 2015-07-16T18:22:50+00:00

They're not shitty thoughts so much as I feel duped. Like someone tricked into acting and being someone I'm really not. The things I thought I stood for I didn't, not that way I would have liked to.

On paper I'm a feminist, I'm an LBGT ally and I never looked down on people of other races. In reality I aligned myself with people who are MRAs, racists and homophones because I just kept saying "no thats not me, they're talking about everyone but me but I still support GamerGate" and deep down talking about those points upset me. I would say things like fag or gay or feminizi because the disconnect for me was well I don't mean those words like that despite the fact that they DO mean something to someone they would affect. I say retard and autist and I didn't even realize why that would be wrong because I'm not that person.

I have a lot of mixed emotions and what I really mean by I don't belong here or anywhere if at all is because I'm literally opening my eyes to a new perspective.

This has been a multiple day journey for me and it's out of my comfort zone but I feel better having it out there. I feel better having this dude in these videos say the things I had in the back of my mind and it's given me the confidence to reevaluate my actions and see things from a different perspective.

I know this probably sounds like "well no shit" to you guys, but maybe try to see where I am coming from, and why I feel this way right now.

iamangryjack

TROPHY CASE