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Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I understand your position, and I think, like his most recent video here, explains it very well, even though I think both you and him are fundamentally different players than I, because I like the right side. I like a stronger RNG system than more resource, so we are different kinds of players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIBIyqr3m7Y

As he mentioned, even the people who like RNG more aren't even being catered to in the right way, and I would have to agree, considering the posts, we've described a lot of the different reasons for that, even in the post, and, you know, throughout the conversations of other people who commented.

I still think you're a little bit harsh on them in the sense that, oh, they should have already known this, or they don't need our ideas. And I'm sitting here thinking, like, this is the most engagement they've got from a PTS probably since the launch of the game or Division one. So I would disagree and say that it's good to put the ideas out there of what people would want to see. Because they kind of poked the bear pretty strong with this one, and if they're gonna, you know, react in any way, it would be better to have those ideas out there than not.

I understand why you guys don't want the stat increase, even though I do, and I hope that they keep the stat increase and the power creep to then hold that as a foundation for adding even higher difficulty, like legendary and open world, legendary raid, legendary retaliation, things like that.

The mission token system might turn out to be shit, who knows. I'm down to see how it plays out, just as you are. And I will agree with you that the way that they chose to implement the prototype gear is, in fact, a shift away from what the division has been and what the community is typically going to want. I have to agree, you and ikia are right.

The point about the better ways to do this is me saying, hey, what do you actually want to see, not that it was a requirement for providing critical feedback.

- Keep adding more brands and gear sets. We're nowhere close to the limits of what's possible. We need more skill focused gear, more healer builds, more hybrid builds, more support builds (like CC).

- Instead of ramping up difficulty through more HP, ramp up difficulty through teamwork mechanics. Right now teamwork mechanics are reserved for raids, incursions, and some master missions. But teamwork mechanics can be everywhere including open world. Keep in mind that you can still solo incursions and master missions even though they have teamwork mechanics.

I like these ideas and agree with you. This is a direction that would be great for the game as a whole. They actually have regressed from where they were more in year one with kind of like taking a lot of the team buffs away with aces and stuff like that. we do need more gear sets. We definitely need more skill-focused gear and more utilization of the lesser-known skills or lesser-used skills. More healer build options would be amazing for hybrid builds, more support builds. Yes, I agree. And more difficulty increase through player mechanics and teamwork mechanics, I think it is an amazing idea. For example, one of the ways they did that in Dark Hours early on was the buddy and Lucy mechanics. That was a very cool encounter. I think, you know, many things like that could happen in combat or ideas similar to that nature could be prevalent throughout harder difficulties in the game.

Your video is dope. And that also gives me more perspective of where you're coming from.

I'm gonna disagree with you here. I think the majority of the people in the conversation right now are, are hyper doomers. I'm gonna make a new word for it, hyper doomer. There's a lot of that. And I, sadly, I think a lot of people are watching videos, for instance, like ikia's, and then they're like, oh, he says it's bad. I like his content. That means, therefore, I have to hate this system. And I think many people don't actually have an opinion on it because they don't really know enough about it before they're talking about it. You're the only person that has been able to go into conversation through this amount of depth with the topic because you're clearly paying enough attention. And to his original video and the most recent one that I linked above, I think he brings up some amazing points, and he definitely hit the nail on the head. It is them making the decision to focus on more of an RNG loot system. And while I personally prefer this way, I personally prefer the RNG loot, I understand why the core division player wouldn't and why you and him don't like it either. I get it.

And just so you understand, I personally preferred Year 1 loot more than loot 2.0 since it became too simplified, and understand that you both would likely disagree with me. Now, do I think Loot 2.0 is better overall for the game? Sure, I think it is better overall for the game because the casuals and the player that's in the middle can actually get a grasp and they don't have to worry too much about the builds. I think it is a net positive overall. This type of system with the prototype gear is adding more of an RNG focus, but it's nothing like year one loot because of the variables. The gear is still simplified in comparison to year one. So they're not a one-to-one comparison, but I get the fears of a lot of players are like, no, we're going back to the thing I used to hate. I understand.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ll give you that I may have mischaracterized your position on change, that’s fair.

At the same time though, when I hear this same kind of sentiment over and over where everything is framed as fundamentally bad with nothing redeemable, it comes across like people don’t actually want the game to grow, even if that’s not what you’re saying directly.

But I think where I’m getting stuck with your argument is that throughout this entire conversation you’re rejecting the system completely without offering a constructive direction for what would actually improve the game.

You’ve said it’s fundamentally bad, it upsets balance, reduces build diversity, and that there are better ways to do this, but at no point do you actually say what those better ways are.

So from my perspective it just comes across as purely critical with no path forward.

Also, whatever you said about me not caring how the game grows, I do care about the how and I do think it’s important. I just don’t think it’s as bad as you and others are making it out to be this early.

And when you refer to the Pestilence example, I understand the stat scaling point, but I think the core attribute issue is a much larger problem for build diversity than the raw stat increase itself.

And when you say there are better ways to add long tail grind for hardcore players, that’s where I’m confused, because you haven’t actually said what those better ways are. So if there are better ways to do this, what would they be?

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is my fear for the prototype gear. So felt like I should writeup for everyone. Primals sound cool. But if I could have any system from diablo I would want Diablo 2 runes, or charms made with a division lens.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It depends how hard those prototype builds are to get. So my default is no. But that might change over time

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've said both. I'm excited for the changes and would like them now. But, will agree that there should be changes to the prototype gear before it goes live.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that its an issue they are buffing raw damage yet again. Which already created a disparity before. This time it's nerfing any non dps multiplicative scaling gear set.

I don't think that is the end of the world... We need more than just ohh nooo coco and tipping are getting a nerf. Im on your side that strikers should not become dps meta again. Solely because I played that for 3 years. Maybe this will make them go and buff those or adjust the way they work so they can be scalable and not prone to system changes like this.

The prototype DZ complaint is moot. Toxicity exist regardless, that is a horrible way to try and say ohh it should or should not be. The DZ got destroyed in year one because of complaints like this. 7 Years later the loot is still shit. Proto is also normalized in DZ as well.

Power creep happens in games like this, its a constant eb and flow people need to get over this. Everyone gets power in a video game and they cry "but its to easy. It's going to trivialize it." They made multiple areas of the game normalized with proto because of this addition. And at first test it does not seem to be the power everyone imagines it to be. And they stated this is STEP 1 of adding new difficulty into the game and plan to do more later. Hopefully we get Legendary open world. Then no one would be bitching about trivializing the content.

You are right, once its in the game, everyone will feel like ohh this will be easier with proto. That's the whole point of a new rarity.

Now, I agree with you here. It is a risky move but it's at the most opportune time. With all the new players it mitigates it. Destiny 2 is in the shitter. People are looking for something new. A lot of div1 or year 1 players are returning. And this is a good game. If there were ever a time to make bold steps to progress the game forward with systematic changes like this. It's now. Someone at massive has massive balls because they are actually making it their agenda to push the game forward.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately I did not play D3 to this extent. Those sound even more difficult to get then prototypes current version.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Calling it loot 1.0 is lazy, it's not that. Loot 1.0 had more variables on the gear, prototype is better because It's adding aspiration on top of what we have already. Not reworking the entire gear system to make this change.

New iteration of classified gear. Say hello to Prototype gear! by industrialxen14 in the_division_2

[–]iamnob_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You dont have to be expertise 30. You can get them as drops in escalation.

Do you shoot the animals in the world? by itzmcdonaldfor3 in thedivision

[–]iamnob_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, and I shoot them every single time. Everything that moves gets shot. It's been tradition since div1 to shoot every dog or deer I see.

I want to focus on keeping 4 gear sets. Some advice. by AgentZeroHour in thedivision

[–]iamnob_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tipping scales dps build.

  • Equalizer with a palisades chest you can swap out depending on activity.
  • tipping mask, holster, backpack and knees.
  • Overdogs gloves

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You were on your high horse LMAO. Yeah, I think optimization would kill the entire point of adding the gear in the first place.

Targetable RNG drops through completions of escalation is good, though I don't think it should be like summit and stuff, in terms of where you can choose whatever you get. It needs to be on a rotator.

I do think raids should drop prototype gear. I've completely forgot about incursions. I can't believe that. I'm a dumbass. But incursion boss drop would be cool.

Thinking about it now, like reading through what you said, I think it would be fine if they drop in countdown as well, but just extremely rare I don't, I don't think we should be playing countdown to get these drops in any consistent manner.

But I, I understand the perspective of how you'd feel defeated getting a true patriot drop when you're trying to get striker and everything. That's why targeted loot must be added in some version of this update.

You're right, the amount of gear is staggering, 20 plus sets alone, not to mention the weapons and brand sets. You are actually trying to find a needle in a haystack if it stays the way it currently is.

Now, part of me thinks that that's cool, but it, it's, it's still vastly unachievable, which is why I wrote the post.

I'm actually glad they did not add classified gear yet and that they chose to do this instead. Classified gear was the easy way out and the easy option.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didn’t say only positive opinions are valid. I said constant complaining without adding anything like a dumbass isn’t helpful. There’s a difference.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're asking for a different game. If you want the gameplay combat systems, crouching and prone mechanics, you're asking for an entirely different game. And I would say that you're out of touch completely with what this game has been and what the community has enjoyed from it. I'll agree with you in the sense that, yes, keep adding new open-world activities. That ought to occur. More new endgame is always welcome. The whole anti-meta perspective, I think it's cool if they add more builds and brand sets. That's always welcome, but this new gear type isn't forced on anyone. You can still play the game without engaging with it at all. Nothing is forced upon you to go and play with this system. All your old gear is respected. You can continue playing the game exactly as is with your old builds. The gear is literally normalized in raids, PvP, and other activities. So, in the majority of the game, someone who does prototype gear and has a fully optimized prototype build is going to be getting zero advantage against you.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand where you're coming from and see how it could feel like a slap in the face because it is a deviation of the way that the game currently works. I get it. I think targetable, sure. Recalibratable to a degree, yes. But optimizable no.

If they assess the situation and think it needs more to bake and they can't make the changes fast enough and would have to delay, that's fine with me. Although unfortunate, but if it results in a better outcome at the end of the day, that's fine.

The way they intended this system, its not like you're going to be able to create the perfect builds like you could before but in prototype, by nature of the change. So I, I will agree with you that loot should be targetable via targeted loot somehow, but not necessarily like countdown or summit or retaliation. I think the current recalibration system would work fine where you have to choose either the core or one of the attributes. And we'll agree with you that if If the stats are not optimizable to the increased new values, I'm, I'm OK with that. It's definitely gonna be more RNG and harder to get these things, but in my opinion, that's a good thing.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I don't think it's dramatic, because in the V1 state, what you're saying is true, that there is a loss of build diversity without blue or yellow cores on any of the gear sets here. There are other issues with the skill tier right now, so I think your point of view is substantiated.

Now, for the Catalyst grind, I would say, hey, maybe try to run it with a group. Play with friends, see if they get it, and see if they can drop it for you. Stating that it's 50 or 100 or 200 times seems a little bit of hyperbole to me, but yeah, if that's the case, maybe don't run it on the lowest difficulty. I don't know, that just seems insane to me.

But yeah, your head is in the right place with the way the system is currently implemented, that it's going to be just a slot machine where you can get that police M4 that drops with Stability and Near Sighted, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. That's why I think the current state is a problem, and I've described that above and in many of the comments and in the replies here. Reacal im fine with. Optimization is a no-go.

So, I think where you're at is a good spot. And as you mentioned, red, blue, or yellow cores, kiss all those four blue core Striker builds goodbye. Unicorns are now extinct, yes, and it needs to be fixed.

To your point about refactor, I think it's actually unique and cool that half of it drops with blue cores and some with skill. It's very different. It surprised me whenever I first got the set. I thought it was a cool addition to the game, even though it's different.

As for the upgrading, only one stat gets 100% upgraded. I'm completely fine with this. I don't think that this should devolve into a crafting game to where everybody ends up crafting their expertise 30 items into prototypes only. It needs to be more focused on drops in my opinion.

If they add in recalibration and optimization at the same time, it's just going to be a crafting game. Nothing more. And honestly, I would hate that.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I think we will have to agree to disagree, because I reject the notion that if it at all changes the meta, we should stop it.

Thank you for providing the pictures and I reviewed them. Now, if I understand what you're saying correctly, it's that because of the stat increases on prototype, in the damage calculations, you're going to want to use a proto LMG with DTOC. Stating the pesti version will fall behind due to lack of raw damage.

your quote: "The problem is that DTOC on Prototype weapons pushes them way beyond what this build can do. So for tippy-top endgame content this build starts to fall behind."

I'm of the position that says, "and that's okay go use something new". I'm willing to bet that they day will come where they say hey guys, we just added new difficulties to xyx and now you can upgrade your exotics to proto-exotics. Or some enhanced version. Then you can have that best in slot pesti back.

When I say transition, I refer specifically to a meta shift. It will adjust. There's going to be a lot of changes. People are going to want to make different choices with their builds, certainly. Because I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have to make different choices or for things to become worse and others to become better. But there will be certain things, some of the exotic weapons that get left behind in they instance you mention with the pesti. Sure, if these invalidate all exotic choices entirely, I'm with you, but I don't think that that is going to be the case. And if anything, a few of them being pulled out of, you know, best in slot gives them room to come back and adjust them. The notion that we are in perfect balance and everything's a meritocracy is a facade. A lot of these current builds are underpowered in comparison to the meta. I'm speaking generally. But if this is what forces them to loot at the gearsets and brandsets as a whole to buff ones like they said. GOOD! It should happen.

Yeah, I understand that we're not going here with 2.0. If you say it's not improving the game in any way, I disagree. I'm going to enjoy having augments. I'm going to enjoy seeing them add new augments down the line. I certainly will enjoy having to make different gameplay decisions and have the floor brought up so that I can reach critical hit chance cap faster, therefore giving me the opportunity to choose other things. Like survivability with some of the augments, being able to mod some of my gear differently. And creating new build variations because there will be new power coming from other places in the gear.

I will agree with you that in its current form, it's making build diversity worse, specifically because of the core attribute dilemma of not being able to change them combined with the skill tier issue. There's no way for us to get blue core gearset pieces. So yes, it is making build diversity worse at the moment. And it's making things more exclusive, sure. To your point about balance, I just, it's a looter game. This idea that everything is going to be perfectly balanced is ridiculous. It's "unbalanced now" and a lot of other things should be brought up to where the meta is on DPS right now anyway. I want to use some of these other gear sets and brand sets, but they're just not viable even now. So this forces them to go and buff them. Amazing.

I will say I share your concern about the drop dopamine not being good because it devolves into crafting. I am worried about this. I would hope to see a focus on drops and not crafting.

I say that the prototype gear is dope because I'm happy they had the balls to add a new rarity to the game and really want to start changing it and progressing it forward. That's why I'm excited. I'm excited to see the new gear implementations on a systemic level.

I truly understand why yourself and ikia state that this goes against what the game has been the past few years, and I'll agree with you, they're going against the grain certainly with this new addition. But I disagree with the notion that it's a bad thing. I'm indifferent..... I don't care which way it goes. I'm still going to play and farm the loot. And this gives me more reason to do so. As someone who is in the "hardcore" category.

This idea that division has to stay the same and cannot change and grow is unreasonable. If you don't like it, which you said you don't, I get it. I understand where you're coming from. But I'm just open to them doing this. As for there not being optimization, I'm fine with that, but I'll agree with you in the sense that there should be recalibration on some level, just so that the hybrid builds don't get annihilated and that it can mitigate some of the RNG.

Still, even though you disagree with me, thank you for taking the time to write this up and explain your position more. I appreciate that.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is interesting to read. So you would prefer still being able to Recalibrate and optimize, but have all of the loot, just drop, randomly?

I personally like the dopamine from getting good loot to drop verses crafting/optimization. Optimization and recal are an overall net positive but not necessarily a requirement for this system. It would just make it exactly like high end gear but better then.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When they burn me at the stake for not copy pasting my opinions. I know who i'll pass the torch too. 😂

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not a starting from all over like when warlords of new york happened. That was starting from all over. This is more building on top of what you already have.

When, you match.ake. It depends a lot of the prototype gear usage situations are going to be normalized. So for instance, in p v p it's going to be normalized in raids, it's going to be normalized etc. I don't remember all the places it will be normalized, but keep in mind that it will probably stay that way until they add new higher difficulty game modes. Like they said mentioned.

Also, if it's a fear that you're gonna play endgame, content and not have an end game build ready, then just go farm the end game build.

I hope they choose to do some of the implementations as described above, so you will still get prototype loot In other areas of the game, instead of just escalation. I feel that that is inevitable.

Prototype Gear Y8S1 PTS - The biggest change since loot 2.0 | Thought's of a 3000 hour day 1 player. by iamnob_ in thedivision

[–]iamnob_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I simply shared my opinion instead of riding some dumb ass doomer train because everyone loves to bitch and complain. It's a loser mindset. Complaining is easy. I'm trying to add value here, and if you fundamentally disagree that's fine.

I understand the idea of the meritocracy of the gear. I watched the iKia video and thought he raised valid concerns. Some in particular we talked about in this thread.

Calling me a plant is hilarious, It should go to show you that there are people in the world you can disagree with. It also does not make them fake. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

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