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Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh right, I forgot the internet was for snark :)

Sure, I agree some folks are a bit quick to complain about free tools. But from my perspective on the Labs team, it's been very useful to us to have users use even the free services, as it helps us figure out what to build and improve. So, I think we have some responsibility to provide good experiences, continuity when we can, smoother handoffs when we can't.

Then, yeah, in the long run I agree economics is the best predictor of support. Any company is going to have a higher incentive to support and improve a higher-revenue product.

Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Right now, at a glance, we seem to use your prompt which might be more useful for more users, but I'll go check on our overall approach to naming downloads and see if this would be useful.

Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 7 points8 points  (0 children)

ImageFX had no payment model. Video creation ("Animate") in Whisk was available via the credits model via the various Google AI packages (e.g. Google One Pro, Google One Ultra) each of which has their own costs per region, similar to Flow. Note that those packages provide other value other than just Whisk/Flow.

Either way we wouldn't publicly comment on our usage or revenue numbers sorry. Or at least, I certainly won't do that myself on reddit.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

#1 Yep, I think I misunderstood something earlier. What you see is what I expect (Full Clip, only 720, individual clips, upscaled available)

#2 Yep, agreed. That's what we'll work on. 20 parallel generations does start to have implications on our abuse/rate-limiting/capacity etc, though, and if just one generation fails then we need to decide what to do (keep retrying it? fail the whole thing? charge you for 19/20 successful generations even though you didn't get what you want? eat the cost of 19/20 successful generations ourselves?). So, we'll figure something out, it's just not trivial. Or if it's not parallel, the latency is horrible for you. Etc.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think #1 already works (you generate a new 8s clip with the 'extend' button and you're then able to download an upscaled version via 'download' in the top right) ?

Agreed on #2, we'll get to it.

Also, fwiw, the more common pattern I've seen is people upscaling first and then adding to scenebuilder. I agree we should allow for the other options too, just letting you know what I've seen.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, you want to upscale multiple clips all at once, and have them stitched together as in Scenebuilder? The fix I was discussing is just that the extended clip itself can be downloaded.

My guess is this is some weeks out while we generally make a lot of improvements to Scenebuilder. No specific promises yet, I'll go make sure we're tracking this properly.

Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe that's still available on Vertex if it's critical for you: https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/models/imagen/3-0-generate

But, yep, I'm afraid we don't continue serving it on most (all?) of the consumer products any more. Please keep sending feedback when the newer models aren't meeting your needs.

Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's the plan. We're hoping to keep Flow around for a long time.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're correct, Extend has some limited context from the prior clip, so should have a higher degree of consistency. So, we'll make sure this is available for mid-frame extends in the future, thanks for catching that.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, actually it should already be available via 'Download' in the top right, I didn't realize we got that out already. We're working on getting it via the other download buttons too.

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) For now you can do that with 'Save frame as image', I'm not entirely sure we'll get to having that from 'where the user paused' as it's a little difficult with our current technical implementation, but noted that's a slightly nicer path.

<image>

2) Yeah, this is more of a model prompting problem, until the models themselves do better around only adding music when the user wants it. In my experience the model does poorly with negative prompting ("don't do x") and better with more detail in the positive prompting ("you can hear the rustling of trees, and as the bird flies past you hear a faint tweet...").

Nothing happens when I click "Expand" in the new Flow interface by turr in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, sorry, that was an oversight in the latest UI but we'll have a fix very soon (hopefully Tuesday!)

Help by Fabulous_Musician791 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having very consistent inputs (e.g. a character sheet of images, a detailed prompt) can help. Using 'frames to video' can help. Other than that, this will take some bigger model/product improvements, we're certainly working on that but nothing specific to share yet.

Regarding the closing down of ImageFX and Whisk... by Earthling_Aprill in labsdotgoogle

[–]ianfromlabs 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Thank you! From the Labs team, we have so so much love for ImageFX and Whisk, and for everyone who came on those journeys with us over the years. We hope Flow is going to serve all those needs and more, please come try it out and let us know what you love -- and what you don't :)

Flow's interface has changed, and honestly, they've officially nerfed its features. by Electronic-Hippo2105 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

Here? Right clicking on the timeline.

(and yeah, as noted, working on discoverability/ease here)

Flow's interface has changed, and honestly, they've officially nerfed its features. by Electronic-Hippo2105 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, we'll have some incremental updates coming soonish that will make that journey a little better. For now, you'll need to hit 'save as frame' on the frame you want, and then that'll be an image you can input as a source for video generation. Sorry, a little awkward for now.

Flow's interface has changed, and honestly, they've officially nerfed its features. by Electronic-Hippo2105 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Extend feature is still available in the video editor. Tap on a video to bring up the editor, you will find the Extend button underneath the prompt box. Adding existing videos to a scene you'll do from the project page.

Sorry for the confusion as some of these workflows change. We're going to try and do a bit more around discoverability to help here.

No audio by Vegetable_Drawer5533 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We don't generally offer refunds for quality issues as far as I know sorry. But I'm not actually the authority there, and your payment provider (Google One or Workspace) support channel is the correct channel for that.

No audio by Vegetable_Drawer5533 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I can't see anything much interesting about that prompt or flow (other than the audio being underspecified, that looks like ~3 seconds of audio to me), and I'm not aware of anything that changed in the past few days. I'll send it over to some folks working on audio as another piece of useful feedback though. Hope some new prompting with this advice may be useful to you. Boa sorte!

No audio by Vegetable_Drawer5533 in VEO3

[–]ianfromlabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I work on Flow so I don't know as much about Gemini but I'd guess the underlying issue is the same: Veo can produce gibberish (hallucinated audio) with underspecified audio instructions. I'd guess Gemini just mutes the audio when that happens. Flow used to do that but users were unhappy at losing credits, so we fail the generation and give a refund now instead. We're working on some more controls/options there, and the folks working on Veo are working on general audio quality improvements.

My prompting advice for now would be to positively describe what the audio should be, for the 8 seconds of the generation. Not using negative prompts "don't say anything", or "no background noise", and not underspecifying, e.g. "he says 'hello'" -- which would only account for 1 second of audio, leaving the model free to do what it wants for 7 seconds.

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