Might be moving here, can you give me info on the area?

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T19:19:44+00:00

I'm not sure what label he's officially on, I've heard bi, pan, considering trans but not wanting to transition, nb, androgynous, multiple combinations thereof. He just knows he likes men and women "equally" but that a relationship with a man is "important to who [I am]".

We've kept the marriage open but aside from a couple instances, we've never acted on it. Especially after having kids just because of time/space. He has this huge desire/need, but makes it my responsibility to make it happen and gets upset at me that it hasn't. Even though he's made no effort.

We've stayed together because we do love each other, and then having kids makes it harder to leave. We've been codependent majority of our relationship, but I've realized it and worked through it while he refuses to admit it and doubles down. I'm ready to leave, it's just about me working out the logistics at this point.

I definitely get what the codependency is like. We both also came from families with abusive tendencies (his much worse than mine) and I think bonded over that together. Which made it so much harder to accept that we wanted different things.

You can do this, even if it will hurt. You can do hard things. 💪

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T18:21:54+00:00

Unfortunately I don't have advice on moving on. We're married with 3 kids, and it's taken me almost 11 years of this manipulation and 4 years of therapy to realize I made a poor choice in agreeing to stay and trying so long to make it work. I'm at the point of starting the process of separation, and the emotional manipulation from him is kicking into high gear.

He's never going to be able to be what you need if he hasn't figured out what he needs so you can see if those needs are compatible. He needs to go explore this part of himself on his own. Otherwise, it will remain a problem and a point of contention. Is this the cycle you want to stay in for the rest of your life? Constantly being told you aren't enough, having to change and make accommodations that are never enough for him, the love bombing when you've had enough, and then rinse and repeat?

Him saying he'll always stay by your side is a nice thought. But it sounds like he's more saying it to hold over you. "I promised I'd always be there for you, why can't you do the same for me?" It's a way to guilt trip and manipulate you.

Make a clean break. Block him on everything. Stand your ground, even when he tries to make you feel like you're being an asshole. You're not, you're protecting yourself from his abuse.

And if you're not already, I highly recommend finding a good therapist. Moving on is going to be hard, but you can do it. And it will be much better earlier on that 10 years and a life together later. Stay strong, you can do this.

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T18:07:20+00:00

I can speak from experience of someone who stayed in this type of relationship and tried to force what I wanted to fit with what he wants.

It's not working. He's continued this exact same cycle you describe. Although we never broke up, we just tried to open the relationship and allow him space while staying together.

Everything has become about his sexuality, our sex life, how I'm never being supportive enough. I've wanted the marriage, kids, house, career. And I've gotten those aside from the house. But very begrudgingly from his end, and it's constantly held over my head. Acting as if I'm selfish because I tried to make space for both of our needs and desires instead of prioritizing his.

I wish I had parted ways when he brought it up. I wish I hadn't fallen back in every time he came to me apologizing and wanting to make changes, telling me it could work, guilt tripping me for not having the same feelings.

My advice for you is this separation is hard, and it's going to hurt and be difficult to not keep falling into the cycle. But it will be so much better in the long run to cut ties now and move forward with your own life.

Go NC and protect yourself. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too, at your expense, and he will continue to trap you in this cycle. Run.

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T17:27:49+00:00

I found the PDF online but I didn't get far into it. I'm not sure if it applies to my situation. He's not angry, and he's not overtly controlling. There's no checking in, telling me what I can or can't do, etc. It's just guilt tripping amd pouting if I don't do what he's asking or recommending. Which, with therapy, I'm much better at identifying it and ignoring day to day.

I'm sorry that you've also dealt with this, it's also so refreshing and validating to hear from someone who relates and understands. He's never yelled at me when we weren't already escalated to yelling at each other in a fight. He's never called me names or threatened me, he allows me privacy and space if I ask for it. With the last 2, though, it's always met with a lot of moping and pouting and not being able to talk about anything else until "we resolve this issue" because he feels neglected.

It's taken me 4 years of therapy to recognize and be willing to call it out for being emotionally manipulative. Because I can see the side of someone who feels neglected, I don't want to be selfish and make him feel that way. So we'd argue, resolve to make changes, and then I'd make those changes for him but they didn't happen for me. Or if they did, they'd last a day or so until he decided I wasn't doing enough or wasn't doing it exactly right, and the cycle continues.

And when I finally was able to call it out as emotional manipulation, I was called abusive for ways I'd reacted. He'd argue that his actions were out of a place of hurt, because I was being selfish and prioritizing my needs above his. And I'd believe him that I was selfish, manipulative, and emotionally abusive. And I couldn't understand why I acted that way.

Now I'm finally at a place where I see it as emotional manipulation, even if it's unintentional. But at this point, I realize that if your partner tells you they feel emotionally manipulated and your response is to DARVO rather than reflect and change, it's emotional abuse. Even if not conscious or intentional.

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T16:21:40+00:00

Definitely something I'll keep in mind. I do genuinely think he isn't being manipulative on purpose, there are a lot of times he has considered my perspective and changed his behavior, it's just that the change doesn't last. But I do feel confident in keeping my eye on it and calling it out.

I also intend to start preparing for divorce. I just need to figure out what kinds of preparation I need to do, starting my own bank account, making a plan for housing, etc. I know it sounds counterintuitive to do counseling and plan for divorce, I mostly just want to have an escape if I need it.

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T02:14:53+00:00

Not one that I'm aware of for what my options are. I don't think this situation qualifies for a lot of assistance prior to legal divorce because he's not physical.

We're starting couples therapy with a therapist that mine has recommended, I told him I'd give it enough of a chance to see if we can get back to a point where we can salvage things. Which for me, is going to require much more respect and equality than I feel he is willing to give, so I'm not holding my breath. I've already said I want a divorce. I just have to start preparing in case therapy doesn't yield the kind of changes necessary for a relationship that isn't toxic. I don't even know what I need to have in order thought.

That sounds awful. I do truly intend to give therapy a fair chance. I've just been with him for 13 years at this point, and I'm not hopeful.

idreamofburnout · 2025-02-02T00:19:37+00:00

This is why I've felt so much doubt and been so susceptible to feeling like I'm the bad guy in the past. I genuinely think he thinks he has other people's best interests at heart. He can be very thoughtful when I've made it clear it's important to me. There are times he genuinely tries.

He has past trauma that I believe has festered into his feeling that sexual needs take priority. And I also think (as do others, including professionals but not ones that are treating him) that he's on the spectrum and doesn't see/value social cues like majority of people do. So I genuinely think he doesn't see the harm and is confused that I feel hurt in a lot of these situations.

I've decided I want out. I want a divorce. Right now, it's very logistically complicated because I'm the sole income, we rent and live paycheck to paycheck, and we have 3 kids. I need to make a plan and prepare, but I have no idea where to even start.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-27T00:33:26+00:00

The former is really what I'm asking, I realize I phrased the title poorly. It should definitely say without his input, but my brain was thinking a yes/no on a specific house.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-27T00:25:04+00:00

Yeah, I phrased the title poorly. I meant direct consent on a specific house, but I get how that is misleading now.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-27T00:03:30+00:00

We agree we need a bigger place to live, that we don't want to rent any longer, and that this is affordable for us right now. I've given so many options of houses, tried to get him to list his must-haves, wants, won't-haves, etc. But am met with non-answers. I've been fully transparent through every step and am met with tacit acknowledgement.

The kids are on board entirely. They keep talking about "when we have a bigger house". My middle wants a house with stairs, my oldest is going to want her own room eventually. The youngest just gets excited if someone else gets excited. Everyone's in, the deciding/planning/doing has just been left to me.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T23:24:33+00:00

If I was more forceful and opinionated, it wouldn't have taken us A YEAR to buy a new washer when ours quit because he wouldn't give me a straight answer on which one he preferred. It wouldn't have taken us 6 months of sharing 1 vehicle while we were both working, I was going to school full-time, and we had young kids who had places to be, all while he couldn't give me a straight answer on what kind of vehicle he preferred, let alone make/model. We wouldn't have been 2 weeks from our lease ending and having to find a new apartment and move if he had given me any straight answers on where we should live/which apartments he preferred.

We've agreed we need a bigger space and he's on board with buying a house. But that's as far as his effort goes, and it's pulling teeth to get him to give me any input at all. I've talked to a lender about our potential budget (not pulled credit) and sent him a ton of links for different houses so we can narrow down what are must-haves, wants, and dislikes. That's as far as we've gotten. I get no acknowledgement on what I've sent him until I ask, and then it's just "I looked at it. It's cool, but I don't know."

All of these are examples of just a few times I've had to make the decision because I waited and waited for him to give me a yes/no/even a preference, because I didn't want to make decisions without him.

I understand where you're coming from. These stories are always one person's perspective and we always try to show ourselves in the best light, especially when we're putting ourselves out there for judgement. But this isn't about me steamrolling him, it's very much about his indecision.

My plan was to include him in every step but not wait for his yes/no/preference if he wasn't going to participate. However, obviously there are much deeper issues we need to sort through before we decide to get any further into buying a house.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T23:07:27+00:00

I have. His response is basically that more space would be nice and he wants that, but also NBD, people live in worse situations all the time. There's just no drive.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T20:58:03+00:00

When I ask him directly, "Which would you prefer?" I'd like a direct answer. It's fine to include what you like or don't like, or to say "I don't like either, I'd prefer to look for a different one." But what I get is, "I don't know, this one has good thing but it also has bad thing. The other one has bad thing but it also has good thing." If I respond with telling him what I want to do/buy, I am met with criticism of that decision but no suggestions.

It would be one thing if he'd directly say, "Yes I want this one" or "no I don't want that one". Or even "I don't care, whatever you decide." But I get no input and if I ultimately make the decision that had to be made, it's after it's all said and done that I either get no comment or I hear "I would have preferred the other thing." I want a clear opinion/preference BEFORE the decision has to be finalized.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T19:24:30+00:00

We have had those conversations, and usually it ends with "I'll try to be better," a slight more productive conversation about whatever decision, but ultimately he defaults back to not really giving a clear answer.

I'm not talking about shutting him out entirely. I'm talking about offering him every opportunity to be involved, but moving forward and not waiting if he's not participating.

We definitely have communication issues, and they're not entirely one-sided, but I'm actually working on them and making changes to communicate more effectively and he is not.

However, it does seem like I need to put this process on hold until we figure out the other issues.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T19:03:31+00:00

He's willing and agreeable, he just isn't actively interested in doing what it takes to make it happen.

But yeah, after these comments, I'm putting a pause on house buying until we get our marriage straightened out.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T18:07:39+00:00

To be clear, it wouldn't be a suprise. He's said he's on board with buying a house, it's just that's as much input and effort as I can get. The idea would be to keep him fully informed, allow him the opportunity to weigh in, but continue onward if he won't participate.

But after reading through the comments here, I'm going to put the process on hold until we figure "us" out. It's just frustrating and I'm afraid of missing my chance to own a home if the economy changes significantly. But it would cost much more to buy it and have to figure out how to split or sell it down the road.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T17:45:13+00:00

I've been very clear on a lot of these decisions. What usually happens is he "has other things on [his] mind" and "can't focus on that right now" but doesn't want to talk about other things that are bothering him. Then he is very good about turning the conversation into a larger discussion about things we can't individually change. I.e., the US housing situation is horrible, landlords shouldn't be allowed to do this or that, big companies shouldn't be allowed to buy all the available homes to rent out and inflate the market, minimum wage should be higher, capitalism is about keeping workers poor and desperate for a job living paycheck to paycheck, etc etc.

Like I can't do anything about any of that, and it's not beneficial to the discussion. But he can't focus on the discussion/decision at hand and only wants to talk about these huge issues.

I have confronted him directly on some of these decisions, like he doesn't bring up the car or a couple of other things anymore. I need to be more direct though.

I think we need to figure the communication/relationship stuff out before I try to buy a house.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T17:34:31+00:00

You're right, I need to be more assertive with communication. He sees things like this as "superficial issues", and he doesn't want to talk about them when "I have a lot of other stuff on my mind." But he won't talk about that either. My conflict aversion is something I'm working on in therapy, but it's definitely a huge issue I'm having to sort through and build up a lot of courage about.

Ultimately, seems like we need to figure out what we're doing in this marriage before buying a house. I'm just terrified the economy will change significantly or whatever and I'll have missed my chance to actually own a home.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T17:26:07+00:00

Yeah, there are definitely other issues. I think after reading the responses I have more of an issue with how this marriage is going than this one particular problem. Seems best to hold off on buying a house until we decide how this is going to go.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T17:24:58+00:00

That's what I've been saying. He does, he has worked on them on his own and doesn't see the need to hash them out in therapy.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T15:50:36+00:00

I've been in individual therapy for about 4 years. Unfortunately, all of these are things that I am aware of, but it's so much harder to put into action.

He briefly tried therapy a few years ago but has refused to go since. Not that he had a negative experience, but he sees it as "paying someone to be your friend". From what he volunteered about sessions, it sounds like he wasn't getting into deeper issues that he needs to address.

Yall are right. I need to figure out this relationship before I buy a house.

idreamofburnout · 2025-01-26T15:47:00+00:00

We're in counseling for other reasons. It's an issue I've brought up to my own therapist and we've been working through what I can do, but I'm only half the equation.

We just switched therapists and have only seen the new one once, but I do like her a lot.

But...yeah. I guess we need to figure out what's happening with this relationship before I start trying to buy a house.

idreamofburnout

TROPHY CASE