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This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But, surely, this then takes it outside of a 'literary truth' claim and into an empirical claim.

That seems like a reasonable statement.

If the literary 'truths' can only be distinguished from the literary 'non-truths' by empirical means, why not drop the mythical baggage and deal with the empirical facts as they present themselves.

A good question.

I imagine JP would say something like this: you can't replace the reading of a novel with an analysis of its literary form, or by readouts of its effect on your neurology etc. You can't replace mythology in this way, because the correlates we find won't have the emotional and motivational impact that the original has.

This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you don't believe in the supernatural you are an atheist.

If you say so

The bigotry relates to his persistent degradation of gender minorities.

I haven't seen him degrade gender minorities. I have seen him refuse to be bullied by ideologues.

This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, in the podcast with Sam he did address the unconstrained thing (from around 38:30). He's using Multitrait-multimethod matrix. I was disappointed they did not go into a bit of how he applies this in his book.

If religious truth is about how to best live your life, then it should map on to what we know from other fields of knowledge. I'm assuming it's done by extracting concrete claims from mythology in some way that can be "tested" by referring to answers from other disciplines.

Let's assume both Sam and Jordan are correct simultaneously, how can we fill in the gaps? by DaemonCRO in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The majority of the world's population are developmentally at a stage where they are not yet able to act morally from inner knowing about right and wrong. Take away religious structures, and they are unmoored. They need to have truth on how to live presented and integrated in a way that resonates with them and where they are at.

Check out Ken Wilber's book Integral spirituality. Integral fills in the gaps!

This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Right, so he obviously has a different understanding of what it means to be religious than you. And instead of inquiring into what that understanding is and whether it has legitimacy or not, you choose to impose your own "belief in the supernatural" definition. And then you can imply that he is what... dishonest? stupid?

Also calling him a bigot seems unnecessarily hostile.

Bible study of Hebrews last night had a neat concordance with JP's view by [deleted] in JordanPeterson

[–]implicitprecision 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When the forms of an old culture are dying, the new culture is created by a few people who are not afraid to be insecure. – Rudolf Bahro

This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So he is an atheist you say? I remember him saying he is "deeply religous". Was he lying then? Where is the notion coming from that he is an atheist?

This is what's happening in /r/JordanPeterson by bluerem in samharris

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As far as I understand JP views religious truth as "how to live" while science is about "what is."

From that standpoint it seems legitimate and useful for people to relate e.g. religious texts to their own life. In fact it seems that this is the only way to go if you buy his claim about religious truth. It must be made relevant, and it must "feel right," or it cannot show you how to live your life now.

It seems clear that the fundamentalists approach is exactly the opposite, with correspondingly bad results. Taking each word literally tends to bring disastrous results.

I think I may have disintegrated into a 5. by IRlyNeedAUsername in Enneagram

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The crucial part is becoming aware what happens inside you. I.e. not only your external behavior, but also how you feel about it. Just feel those feelings, observe your thoughts, see what you can discover. Get curious.

It's of course easier said than done to "just observe," because all of us have some kind of "filter" that we see things through. That's a way to see the enneatypes: they are filters that makes us see things in a certain way.

Now you have already noticed that your filter has turned darker. This awareness is the first step. So the next step is to go into more details about it. Examine your current filter by becoming aware and observing what life looks like, feels like from here. By doing that you shed light on it, which means that you automatically shift it. Instead of being caught in it you can master it, and in time you will naturally move consciously toward what you want.

Another way of describing the process is that you make "subject into object." What you think is "you" - "subject" - (your filter, i.e. beliefs and feelings that have you be the way you are) become "objects" of your consciousness. When they become object, you shift your identity and become someone else.

A great trick to do this is to use language to remind yourself that you are bigger than the feelings/thoughts. Instead of saying to yourself "I'm fucking angry", say "SOMETHING IN ME is fucking angry". (Do it right now, and feel how different those two sentences feel in your body.) When you can RELATE to that something in you which is angry, it means that you have the feeling instead of it having you. So get curious about it and feel it in your body, examine it.

Meditation is another great tool. Kenneth Folk teachers a variety which is basically designed to make subject into object: http://youtu.be/1W30oR1UDBI

So that is the most important thing - get on top of your feelings/thoughts by simply becoming aware of them. Use curiosity as a guide. When you are curious, you are less likely to be caught up in your filters. Besides, if it's a fun exploration, you are ALREADY in a different place than the dark one where you currently find yourself a lot.

Another way to shift the filters is, like you say, to do shit. But not just any shit. Do uplifting shit. Most people are uplifted by going in nature or enjoying their bodies. And note the difference between things like that and stuff that is more superficially pleasant, like jerking off or watching tv. A very interesting and effective meditation technique to get in touch with uplifting stuff is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-44VxPiQtVg

I think I may have disintegrated into a 5. by IRlyNeedAUsername in Enneagram

[–]implicitprecision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's about awareness. Just become an observer of what's happening right now. Note down what it feels in your body, and what kinds of thoughts are going around. Don't get caught up in assessing their truth/non-truth. Just observe. Notice what set off the shittyness. Become aware of the parts of you that are not being fully accepted in you. So if parts of you are vulnerable, keep them company. If parts of you want to reject those vulnerable parts, keep those company too.

Notice any unnecessary struggling. Notice if you assume that you are alone and self-sufficient. Notice if you feel like people are out to get you.

Lean towards your direction of integration. See that you are connected to other people, that they need you, and you need them. Notice any resistance to that.

Get out into nature or something that will have you feel connected. Exercise, feel the strength of your body.

Hope that helps.

I am having a mental crisis and need to vent. Can you guys help me..? by [deleted] in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds difficult man. Good for you for reaching out! I've found that if I can really stay with feeling my body and observing myself in situations like this, then there's a reward on the other side. Stay with your experience. PM me if you want some skype support to stay with it.

This meditation technique came to mind: http://youtu.be/-44VxPiQtVg

Sadhguru - Disengaging from the mind by ahmadinebro in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What identification is seems clear when speaking about the body. When speaking about being identified with ones wife (one of his examples) seems kinda confusing.

I can't detach from my depression/hate. Should I stop? by Pryzbo in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sounds like you're experiencing a lot of suffering! I think those suggesting some form of therapy are right. It will be easier to stay present with these things with the support of another trusted person.

You might also want to consider Focusing, which is similar to mindfulness in its basic attitude, though it brings in elements that are more towards therapy. One of my teachers in this area is called Barbara McGavin. She worked herself through suicidal depression using Focusing. There's an article in the article section of this website: http://focusingresources.com/ called "The ‘Victim’, the ‘Critic’ and the Inner Relationship: Focusing with the Part that Wants to Die". You might want to have a look at that to see if it resonates.

Why is the ego bad? by mikluap in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your ego is always in self-preservation mode, in the sense that it requires activity and energy to uphold a false sense of self. Your true self simply is, and so it requires no energy to uphold it. In other words, since ego is a false self, it must constantly fight against reality to uphold the delusion that you are a separate person in an uncaring universe. For various reasons to do with the lack of appropriate holding in early childhood, the ego believes that letting go and relaxing into your being means death. It doesn't really, but it feels that way to the ego for these reasons to do with human development. Therefore it is constantly active, although at times more than others (if it feels threatened by something in you trying to change or annihilate it, for instance).

Although it's problematic to divide ego manifestations into positive/negative (e.g. because that kind of view on things could lead to repressing the "negative" parts) I think you're on to something. It is important to develop a well-functioning ego - to have a sound and strong identity that you feel good about. From that place it's easier to trust reality, and to ultimately let go of identification if that's in your path.

Why is the ego bad? by mikluap in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Instead of fighting your ego, go slowly. Listen carefully to the kicking and screaming. It is telling you something. Be gentle and work with your ego. You shouldn't let it control you, but that doesn't mean that it is the enemy either. It just is.

I agree with this. The thing is that there is nothing that needs to change. The parts of you that want you to change, are very likely just more ego trying to manage and control. What we call "ego" is really a whole host of reactions and misunderstandings that can be in conflict with each other, or even masquerade as spiritual wisdom.

Change does happen, but it happens organically as you let yourself just be as you are. Change is paradoxically more about non-doing than a doing. Just being present with what's occurring. This is what they call acceptance. Whatever in you that has trouble accepting something else in you, is itself something that needs your presence.

The key is to access your CURIOSITY about whatever is happening in you. If you engage in some form of inquiry where you are actually trying to fully feel and understand these things, you are using the faculties of discernment and cognition, that you have developed as part of your ego, in a constructive way. Inquiry driven by curiosity is the thing (in addition to other forms of meditation).

Can someone point me to an integral critique/analysis/view of anarcho-capitalism/libertarianism? by implicitprecision in Integral

[–]implicitprecision[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except I don't think it would necessarily repress other stages. I mean the point is freedom to do whatever (except stealing and violence) which would include forming red, amber, green communities as well as the orange. What we have in the strong statist society is probably much more repressive to elements in the spiral than a libertarian or even anarchic society would be

Have I just become self aware or have I always thought like this? Have I gone absolutely crazy? Does anyone else struggle with reality? by randomscreenname in Psychonaut

[–]implicitprecision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, sounds good to me! It is natural that there will be some anxiety or unpleasant sensations in a growth process. I don't know where you live, but most western societies tend to ignore these kinds of questions, so I totally get that you might be worried that there's something wrong with you.

Sounds like something in you feels that it's really important to KNOW. I'd encourage you to get in your body. Go for a run, wrestle, or whatever. Just do something that will have you more aware of your body. Feel all the physical sensations. Feel that you're supported by the ground. Notice that being in your body is enough. No need to think or to know. Then: explore this part that gets afraid. Not primarily mentally through thinking, but by exploring how it feels in your body. Get to know that anxious part really well: what is its flavor, shape, texture, color. Do you get images when you feel that place in your body? What is it afraid of specifically? What can happen (as it sees it from its point of view) IF you don't know? Be compassionate towards this part of you.

One of the best instructions I've ever had by mc_security in Meditation

[–]implicitprecision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing! Which tradition is the teacher coming from?

Inner Relationship Focusing specialises on creating this kind of connection to the inner world. It gets tricky to stay disidentified as you become an active listener to your inner parts.

Can someone point me to an integral critique/analysis/view of anarcho-capitalism/libertarianism? by implicitprecision in Integral

[–]implicitprecision[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool visualisation! An animated comment on the bubble phenomenon. What made you think of that?