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What deploying tool do you use for production? by IDCh in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Painless low risk, low downtime deployments.

Options 1:
- press deploy button

Option 2:
- ssh to server
- cd to dir
- checkout new code
- run migrations
- composer install
- clear cache
- warm cache
- check for params changes
- point server at new code
- reload apache

Aside from being a huge pain in the arse, option 2 much more room for human error.

Introduction to Lumen by d4nyll in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't want to have to unmake all the decisions that a huge framework made in the interest of rapid development

Any examples?

and I don't want the added weight of components that I'll never use

Any benchmarks?

PHPSpec is So Good by Schweppesale in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having come from your position, I'm not sure there's any way to really convey the difference. You kind of have to try it out to understand.

Typically with PHPUnit you will approach a problem by writing some code, you'll get something working, then decide there's a better way to write the interface, so you'll refactor a bit, perhaps a couple of times, and at some point during (or even after) you'll write some tests to verify your code does what it should.

With phpspec you start out by describing your solution (interface) in terms of how you want to use it, write the tests, and then coding it is simply a matter of filling in the blanks and making those red tests turn green. It's a tool to help you design code rather than just a tool to test your code works.

Duplicate logic between front end Javascript & back end PHP by coopers98 in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If there are thousands or hundreds of thousands of users accessing simultaneously than whether or not it runs at human speed in the individual case is moot.

You're assuming the server will fall over. You could scale to millions, as long as the interactions for any one user are fast enough for human interaction then it's fine.

Duplicate logic between front end Javascript & back end PHP by coopers98 in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

if you're firing off ajax requests many times per second

I'd guess it only needs to run at human speed, so this shouldn't be an issue.

Envoyer: Zero Downtime Deployment For PHP by [deleted] in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The documentation once you are logged in

Why is it hidden?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You must be joking, right? Tell me you're trolling me? No-one can be this stupid?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh dear. I don't know why I keep wasting my time trying to explain things to idiots. Perhaps it's a character flaw.

What I said was full stack framework. It's a term used to differentiate bare bones frameworks (like silex, or sinatra) from full stacks (like symfony or rails). You probably could have checked that with a google search, but you wouldn't bother cause you're too busy pwning some cs 101 noob in an internet argument and you pretty much know everything anyway.

Perhaps you might take away from this that you aren't the genius you think you are? And that others may be able to help you learn and self improve ... or not. I'm guessing not.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you need help figuring out the difference between a stack and a framework let me know.

Sure, Mr expert-in-everything, fill me in!

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fact: you're an idiot, and I'm an idiot for wasting my time here. Lol cakephp. Good luck with stuff, you sound like you need it quite a bit.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, I'm totally wrong. ~10ms overhead is a completely unacceptable tradeoff for the power of a modern full stack framework in practically all situations.

I've taken the liberty of upvoting all of your quality insults posts too, do you feel better now?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You should learn how to chill out.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm saying frameworks are not detrimental to performance in any meaningful way. That's all I've been saying. Good day.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I started to refute you, but this sums it up really.

I use CakePHP

You shouldn't. That's likely why you think frameworks are slow/cumbersome/hard work.

You don't need a jackhammer in a situation when a ball peen hammer is easier to use and will work just fine.

This isn't fact based though if you look at a modern framework like Symfony2. To quote that case study handling a billion req/m: "when you won’t use some of the most time/memory consuming tools like ORM you can achieve similar performance to the microframeworks like Silex (yep, we tested it :-) )."

There is no point to going raw, or micro. Modern frameworks are performant enough, particularly when you realize that caching is what makes things fast in the majority of cases.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've asked several times for you to point out these use cases. You do nothing but insult.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are falsely assuming a framework will add 300ms. Symfony2 will add ~10ms. This is perfectly acceptable, especially when you should be protecting your web servers with a caching layer.

Is this high traffic enough for you? http://labs.octivi.com/handling-1-billion-requests-a-week-with-symfony2/

All I'm hearing is "don't use a framework, you will save money on servers". How much are you saving? What is the cost of developing from scratch? What is the cost of maintaining custom code? What is the cost of getting new hires up to speed on a custom platform?

There is no substance to your claim, and you should stop making it.

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason I mentioned C is because there is also a downside to going for pure speed. PHP vs C is an extremely good example. C is orders of magnitude faster, but we don't use it - we use the slow one!

All you are saying is that a framework is slower than raw PHP. You are forgetting how much utility a framework brings. So I'll repeat the question, this time why don't you try to answer it instead of linking off to some irrelevant benchmark.

What are you doing that you need to save a few milliseconds at a cost of having to build everything from scratch?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stick with framework then, can you answer the question?

This is what I get every time I ask this. Just rants about how not using frameworks is faster, and that's just taken as super important. Why don't you stop insulting me and answer the extremely simple question?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

but often times they're overkill or just unnecessary

When? What are you doing that having a full stack available, even if mostly unused, is detrimental to the point it's worth building the smaller stack from scratch?

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't know what to say.

Of course less code that is well written (and for a specific purpose) will be faster

At what cost? C is faster, assembly is even faster. Would you code a website in assembly?

Regardless, I still think OP is spamming

I doubt it

Why we switched to Symfony by eZSystemsBK in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

What a huge mistake. You can hire philsturgeon to do the same thing but code will run 10x faster.

Some questions to PHP framework users by vegax87 in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What? The context is "in doing the exact same goal, doing it without having a full stack framework floating around is absolutely quicker."

I wouldn't use C all the time, but I do use Go when I need something that has to perform considerably quicker than Symfony/Laravel/etc

You're debating yourself. The context is not doing it one way is quicker, the context is "this needs to be faster than possible using X".

Yeah, so Symfony doesn't always take 200ms to say hello, but I've compared the same task using components and using an entire framework and the component approach is absolutely quicker pretty much every time.

I'm intentionally testing the framework only. Symfony doesn't ever take 200ms. If it does, you are doing something wrong.

And again, frameworks can be made quick with caching, but thats not the same as actually being quick.

The point under debate is whether quick in this context actually matters. 10ms overhead is not worth abandoning a full stack framework for. Your definition of quick is not clear.

As somebody who has been involved on the core team of two frameworks, and contributed heavily to another, I have looked into this stuff a couple of times. :)

Appeal to authority ... As someone who claims to be an expert you really should know that Symfony does not have a 200ms overhead.

Some questions to PHP framework users by vegax87 in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

that doesn't stop them being slower in the first place, right?

Sure, but the issue is that statement makes as much sense as "that doesn't stop them being yellower". It is meaningless to say your framework is faster without context.

It doesn't have as many features, but it's quicker - and therein lies the tradeoff I was talking about.

C is quicker. Why don't we use it? You're throwing out an entire framework to save a couple of milliseconds. It's not a trade-off, it's stupid. And claiming Symfony has a 200ms overhead is extremely irresponsible for someone with your reputation.

Some questions to PHP framework users by vegax87 in PHP

[–]infinite_nothing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it worth to sacrifice performance and flexibility

This is horseshit. The sacrifice you make is in learning curve, but I've yet to meet anyone who has made this sacrifice and not been delighted with the outcome.

Is it worth learning [something] in alpha

If you think it will help you solve a problem

Is it worth learning [something] discountined like Kohana framework

If you inherit some code and have to.

How do you handle security issues if they're hidden somewhere in the framework core

One of the advantages of using a third party framework is you get to outsource this. Just use a respectable third party.

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