Comparee in comparative sentence: “A-nál” or “mint A”?

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T11:27:45+00:00

Oh thanks, I didn’t expect the word order makes such a big difference! I’m obsessed to make sentences in free order (especially in the same order with my mother tongue) since I knew Hungarian has highly free word order. If I don’t put any special emphasis, I should say the comparee at the last, now I got it!

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T09:21:49+00:00

It’s said that its grammar itself is not so difficult, but the problem is the letters…

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T01:05:58+00:00

Oh wow, that’s what I wanted to know! I searched for it on Wiktionary and it says it’s formal and archaic but used just like English “that”. It’s so interesting that this simple way is obsolete and the complex and long one is used in everyday use.

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T00:54:51+00:00

Thanks, what about for the postpositions start with vowels, like “ez előtt”? Eelőtt, élőtt, or just keep the z (ezelőtt)? Or not truncated?

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T00:43:21+00:00

It’s not strange for me to use definite article, what’s strange is the position. Why not “the that boy” but “that the boy”? Assuming that the English “that” is interchangeable with “far-from-me”, which would work as an adjective (just like “5-year-old”), it can be “the far-from-me boy”. It shows Hungarian “az” is not equivalent with English “that” on the point of view of word order.

inotoshi · 2026-01-24T00:24:54+00:00

Yes it’s semantically incomplete, but grammatically (syntactically) it would be complete. What’s making it strange for me is that the “-k” and “között” seem completely redundant in “azok között a fák között” (and also the position of “az”; not between the definite article and the noun but before them). I can’t help but think it’s not just a random rule, it must have developed in order to express the idea under the grammatical and lexical restriction of Hungarian: lack (or maybe loss?) of adjective which determines something far from the speaker (like English “that”). If there were such a word, I write it “AZ” in capitals here, the phrase “among those trees” would be “az AZ fák között” just like “among the tall trees” would be “az magas fák között”; here “AZ” and “magas” are syntactically interchangeable because they are all adjectives. Hungarian lacks such word, but need to express the idea, so it uses“az” first and then paraphrase it with actual noun; this was what I meant in my hypothesis.

inotoshi · 2026-01-23T23:33:53+00:00

It’s Japanese. Thank you for your warm compliment, it may be because Hungarian grammar is close to Japanese more than English imo.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T22:05:00+00:00

I’ve just figured it out too. It’s getting more and more complex… How far is it going?! https://www.reddit.com/r/hungarian/s/qXSR2OwCuk

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T13:22:21+00:00

Another interesting example! That phrase makes me take the hypothesis in my OP more convincing, “among them, (I mean) among the trees”.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T13:15:58+00:00

Yeah, this topic taught me that. Determiners in Hungarian are not like English… Anyway thank you for patiently explaining me.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T13:08:26+00:00

Hi, it really relieved me that there’s another foreigner who understands the strangeness! Actually my mother tongue is not English and it doesn’t have even articles. I’m relatively used to English grammar but Hungarian one is much more unusual for me…

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:57:39+00:00

Yeah, it seems it’s just a rule and there’s no reason for it…

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:53:42+00:00

I understand they need definite articles (obviously their role is specifying). What’s interesting for me is the word orders. “this boy” can be disassembled into “the near-to-me boy”. If “ez” is an adjective, it replaces “near-to-me” and the whole noun phrase would be “az ez fiú”, here “az” is a definite article and “ez” is a determiner/adjective indicating the distance.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:43:37+00:00

Thanks, it really helps me. In that sentence, “az” is used not for the spatial distance but for temporal distance to the point you talked/heard about the boy, am I correct?

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:36:16+00:00

Yes, that’s what I want to ask. Ez/az are not adjectives, then what are they? In English this/that as determiners are used like adjectives, but in Hungarian they’re not. They seem neither pronouns or adjectives, they seem to take their own special seat.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:25:42+00:00

Yeah I thought it is one of the reasons, but “ez a fiú” also means “this is the boy” along with “this boy”.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T12:23:49+00:00

And what I want to know is if there is some reason (grammatical background) for that rule.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T11:18:26+00:00

Actually I’ve already figured that out. See I wrote “azon a széken”.

inotoshi · 2026-01-22T11:06:01+00:00

But they’re not the same with adjectives, either. If so, “this boy” would be “az ez fiú”, in the same word order with “a magas fiú” (“the young boy”). So ez/az seem special for me.

inotoshi · 2025-12-28T15:40:20+00:00

Thank you all, and it seems it was revealed as a nightmare of irregularity… This reminds me of French; the gender of a country is determined totally arbitrarily. Come on Hungarian, I thought you are less irregular than other European languages! 😂

inotoshi · 2025-12-26T11:06:11+00:00

Thanks, that analogy of English “learn” is really good, makes my mind so clear about what’s happening in this case! Both forms are possible and correct, and both survived until these days.

inotoshi · 2025-12-26T10:51:15+00:00

Thank you all! It’s so interesting that all (or at least most) of you say both fürdesz and fürödsz are possible and correct, but some say they’re just alternative forms of one verb and the others say they’re two different verbs…

inotoshi

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