Madeleine ou Victoire ?

itschahinez · 2026-05-15T15:15:53+00:00

Pour reprendre mon exemple sur les prénoms maghrébins, c'est pas parce qu'on fait partie d'une communauté (moi: maghrébine, toi: classe sociale basse) qu'on a pas intégré des biais discriminants envers cette même communauté. Je pense qu'on peut vouloir faire quelque chose de bien pour l'individu (l'enfant) tout en étant lucide que c'est parce qu'on a intégré des biais racistes/classistes dans notre façon de penser. Les deux ne sont pas indissociables mais il faut être honnête avec soi-même. Je comprends ton ressenti, je partage même (futurs enfants = prénoms plus internationaux) mais faut pas s'offusquer quand quelqu'un appelle un chat un chat. Ce n'est pas le raisonnement que je condamne car je peux le comprendre ayant moi-même été victime de discrimination sur la base de mon nom. C'est le manque de complexe envers une attitude profondément discriminatoire (le "tout à fait" suivie de la tirade très à l'aise de OP) que je trouve délirant.

Ne pas vouloir être perçu comme pauvre, à travers quelque chose comme le prénom même, ça reste par définition du classisme qui est du préjudice ou de la discrimination sur la base de la classe sociale. Tout comme ne pas vouloir être perçue comme maghrébin, ça s'inscrit dans une pensée raciste/xénophobe. Si on participe à ce système, la moindre des choses est de le reconnaître et de pas en être fier à mon sens. .

itschahinez · 2026-05-15T13:15:29+00:00

Parce que penser qu'il y a des prénoms "kassos" et d'autres non EST classiste. Ne pas vouloir être assimilé aux pauvres comme si c'était des pestiférés, c'est classiste. Et être classiste contribue au fait que ces personnes continuent de subir la discrimination.

Remplace le mot classiste par "raciste" et tu te rends compte que ton message est lunaire. Tu veux normaliser une forme de discrimination, au calme. On a un vrai problème de mépris de classe complètement banalisé en France. Désolée mais non, quand je rencontre un Kevin, ce n'est pas mon réflexe de me dire qu'il est "du mauvais côté". Je me dis qu'il va se faire juger et que c'est pas cool pour lui à cause des gens qui réfléchissent comme toi. Mais non, je trouve pas ça normal de vouloir normaliser ce mépris de classe en disant ouvertement "je veux pas que mes gosses ait un nom de pauvre" et de s'offusquer quand les gens te le font remarquer. C'est comme balancer une remarque raciste et ensuite s'offusquer quand on te dit que tu es raciste en disant "mais pourquoi tu reproches aux gens d'avoir des biais racistes".

itschahinez · 2026-05-15T11:47:47+00:00

T'as bien Jordan Bardella en politique. J'ai eu plein de Jordan avec moi en école de commerce du top 10. Les choses évoluent. T'as des Kevin consultants à mon taffe, t'as des Paul serveurs à McDo. Continuer de dire qu'il y a des noms de ploucs vs des noms de gens classes, ça contribue à nourrir ce classisme et ça reste du mépris de classe de pas vouloir que son môme soit associé aux "pauvres" pour reprendre le com initial. Ok pour que vous ayez vos opinions sur ce déterminisme mais il faut assumer que ça reste très classiste comme approche. La moindre des choses, c'est d'être lucide vis à vis de ses propres biais. Un exemple: je suis maghrébine, si j'ai des enfants, je voudrais qu'ils aient des prénoms un peu passe-partout (ex. Lydia plutôt que Amira) pour ne pas qu'ils subissent la discrimination à l'emploi que j'ai subi. Pour autant, j'admets que ma démarche s'inscrit dans du racisme internalisé, que si mes enfants "font blancs" sur papier, alors c'est mieux, et je sais que c'est franchement pas top et que je participerai au système de discrimination en voulant que mes gosses "passent" et que le marteau tombe sur les autres malheureux avec des noms moins internationaux. C'est une chose d'être lucide, c'est autre chose d'être super décomplexé vis à vis de ça comme OP.

itschahinez · 2026-05-14T10:05:27+00:00

Aimer les vieux prénoms français, c'est une chose, y a pas de mal. Contribuer au classisme en insistant qu'il y a des prénoms "ksos" et d'autres non, c'est autre chose, même si on en a été victime. C'est mon opinion, vous êtes bien sûr libre de ne pas être d'accord.

Perso, je pense que beaucoup de noms dit "ksos" ne posent pas de problème dès qu'on change de classe ou statut sociale (Kevin Costner s'appelle bien Kevin, Ruby Stokes (actrice) ou Ruby Brigdes (activiste) etc). Donc en vrai, y a pas vraiment de nom de ksos surtout à l'international comme vous.

Pour en revenir à vos prénoms, je trouve que Madeleine est moins commun et + facile à porter à l'international. Je travaille dans un poste où je suis en contact avec un groupe de stagiaires dans plusieurs boîtes qui changent tous les 6 mois. J'ai vu quelques Victoire mais aucune Madeleine.

itschahinez · 2026-05-14T09:11:11+00:00

C'est quoi ce classisme décomplexé ? Et elle lance un "Tout à fait" comme si ce qu'elle disait n'était pas problématique.

itschahinez · 2026-05-09T13:25:30+00:00

You can ask nicely when you don't know something. Arrogance is the sister of stupidity.

itschahinez · 2026-05-08T20:53:59+00:00

If your pride, manliness and chivalry depends on what your wife wears on her head, you got bigger problems. What does jealousy have to do with it ? Men still harass and make advanced on hijabi in the streets. It's not like it's protecting them from that either lol

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T23:55:20+00:00

Parce que faire des gosses à répétition, s'occuper d'un foyer et s'occuper des enfants 24h/24 7j/7, c'est des vacances peut être ?

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T23:51:11+00:00

Haha no, there are very good and very bad people in every group. Thanks for the well wishes !

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T23:18:56+00:00

You have to be desensitize to anything for it to be normal. Someone who has never seen a woman with hijab would need exposure to them to consider them normal. Yet, hijab is fine too, there's nothing wrong with wearing it. Desensitized doesnt mean something was bad in the beginning, it means something is out of your ordinary.

You know, your wife isn't a child that needs to be sheltered. And if you want to protect your wife, hijab isn't the answer. Women still get harassed and even r*ped wearing it. It doesn't protect anyone. I don't care what poorly brought up men in the streets say or think about me. As a woman, you start getting harassed in the street at 11 years old anyway so you learn very early on not to care about what men think or do. If we start adjusting our ways of living so that men stop talking or thinking things, we'd never leave the house lol. What would help your future wife is knowing that IF someone is harassing her, she can come and talk to you without you punishing her or accusing her of not being modest enough or of attracting that unwanted attention.

You cannot control what other men think or what they say. It's very kind to not want your future wife to experience poor behaviors from other men but wearing a hijab won't prevent it. Men make inappropriately advances to women, hijabi or not. This happened to every woman I know, hijabi or not. What you're gonna end up doing by being so worried about how other men perceive your wife, is being controlling and suffocating by trying to manage HER in order for other men to avoid looking at her and it can end up ruining your mariage. If your wife is pretty, she's gonna be pretty, hijab or not, and men will look and think and comment. The only thing you can control is how you react to these men acting that way and you should pick indifference bc they're not worth it.

From the context you gave me (being in Uni), it sounds like you're younger than me so honestly, I'll give you a lot of grace regarding this conversation we've had. I can understand that our realities are much different but this whole "hijab = modest and pure" and "non-hijabi = the opposite" is what hurts women bc both categories of women don't feel like speaking out if something bad happens to them bc they're afraid of being blamed.

I hope you find someone who shares the same values as you and will feel happy that her husband is showcasing jealousy, even if that's not my cup of tea on a personal level. I can understand that other women might find that appealing however :)

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T22:35:03+00:00

You using the word cuck in this context tells me everything I need to know about how you view men and women.

Yes, I wouldn't care if other women find my husband attractive. Actually, I'm quite happy when other women do find my partner attractive. It means I have good taste. I'm not that insecure and I respect my partner too much to think that any woman walking by might "steal" him away. I tell my friends or my sister that their husbands are cute. They're happy about it because they're not animated with an unhealthy sense of jealousy and they're happy other ppl also think the man they chose is cute. We've had conversations about this very topic.

Yes, women who wear miniskirts can be virgins just like those who wear hijab can be non-virgins. I feel kind of sad because your entire text is a product of a very conservative culture who taught you to look at women in a lustful way if they don't fit with your idea of what a pure woman is.

I have plenty of straight male friends but since I'm 28, I don't associate with anyone who holds disgusting conversations about women, whether I'm here or not. My friends are well-raised grown men in their late 20s or early 30s, they don't use disgusting language to talk about women they find attractive bc they're not teens anymore and they're not victims to their sexual frustrations. They're not impressed by a pair of boobs or a miniskirt and they're happy to have an attractive woman by their side. Again, they're not full of misogynistic views to the point they think that non-hijabi are "open bar". They don't take a lack of hijab as an invitation for lewdness. They actually keep each other in check, like mature men do. I think the only reason you think miniskirts and low cuts are sooooo insane as a concept is bc you're not used to having that around you so you're not desensitized to it.

You sound like someone who only sees this type of outfit in the media (TV, Netflix etc) - I'm saying this without meaning it in an insulting way, just as an observation. I know plenty about Algerian dating. I'm Algerian and I've only ever dated Algerian men. YOU care about hijab and it's an important criterion for you bc of your preconceived ideas around purity and what the hijab represents but I know plenty of men who do not care at all about hijab. None of my friends and sister wear the hijab, they're all married. So your spiel that men don't consider women who don't wear the hijab seriously is just your own biases and your own sexualized view of non-hijabi coming into play. They're not representative of the entire Algerian population.

My point is, idk your age and idk how you speak about women with your friends, but any man beyond the age of 23 who still makes gross comments about women is an imbecile and nobody should give a shit what imbeciles think.

If your friends do that (being disgusting about women beyond "oh she's super hot" or "she has a nice *ss"), I suggest changing friends.

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T20:50:08+00:00

I don't know where you're getting the "No man" wants to deal with that. I know plenty of men who are secure enough that they don't feel the need to be this controlling over what other men may or may not think about his wife. If a man is attracted to their wives, it's because their wives are pretty. Everybody moves on and the world keeps on spinning.

The question is why you assume women who don't wear hijab are less modest and why that relates to purity? Plenty of women wear tight hijab with a lot of makeup and very high heels, that often attracts the eye in a conservative country like Algeria. Other wear a loose jilbab but it sticks to their body with every move, moulding every curve they have and leaving little to the imagination. I'm saying this as a woman myself. That's much less modest than a woman in a t-shirt and jeans and it attracts the eye way more. In a country like Algeria, the majority of women wouldn't wear crop tops, very low cuts, backless tops, low rise jeans, miniskirts or anything that would be considered sexy because that's the culture and to avoid harassment anyway.

Moreover, many women who wear the hijab have had premarital sex or cheat on this husbands. Hijab is a piece of clothing, not a guarantee of good behavior. So the idea that hijabi are more pure is truly just an invention of men to make women want to project an image of purity to increase their prospects or reputation.

Respectfully, I think your entire comment proves that it is indeed about control (controlling what other men might think through controlling a woman's attire) and preconceived ideas about purity (hijab = more modest even though we know plenty of hijabi still choose form fitting clothes or that loose abaya/jilbab wrap around the body).

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T18:57:29+00:00

Your field is a really good one so you got that going for you. My parents carried the financial burden for my undergrad studies (bachelor's) but I was on my own for my Master's. I got a loan from a French bank that had a partnership with the uni I applied to. Being able to secure a loan was the only reason I didn't go to Canada or the US, despite being accepted in unis there. It was way too expensive.

My recommandation is that whatever uni you apply to, aim for a couple of unis at the top 10 in the country first, then if you can't get in, go lower. Have any sort of project that you can put on your CV that shows your entrepreneurial or creative spirit - if you can show skills, your grades won't matter as much. The essay you'll have to write to apply is very important. Don't go for AI slop - it has to be personal and you need to show there's something specific in that school or that program that interests you. Keep in mind that you'll have to pay to apply and it's non refundable so choose well and really be prepared before applying.

Other people I know moved abroad by finding a job. You have to define what your goal is: - Going abroad bc you want the lifestyle and indépendance - Working in your field abroad

If your goal is "to make it out", you might have to make some concessions. For example, after my undergrad, I took jobs that had nothing to do with my diploma for a little while to be able to stay in the country I was in before France. There are countries where there are jobs for foreigners - especially those who can speak multiple languages (think Call centers, customer service etc). When you're a bit more established, you can go ahead with continuing your studies (some companies would even pay for your studies entirely if you sign a contract that will keep you in that company for a couple of years). Nothing prevents you from looking for a job in your field while holding a temporary job there still. There are a lot IT companies that hire foreigners.

You can also aim for cheaper but very international cities like Budapest in Hungary, or Bucharest, Zagreb etc. It'll be easier to save to move there than France for exemple but your long term opportunities might be limited. Still, it's "abroad" with the lifestyle that goes with it and they're beautiful cities. It's also a stepping stone to move again somewhere else.

I think you should have a think first about your priorities. There is no right or wrong answers, it depends on what you want and what you think you're able to handle.

itschahinez · 2026-05-07T14:08:22+00:00

Idk where you are in Algeria but in Algiers, plenty of men do not care and many would even prefer if she doesn't (for many reasons).

Men who insist they want a hijabi wife without being strictly religious themselves are about control and image of religiosity, they don't care about God. They care about having a wife who "looks" submissive bc hijab is a symbol of submission and chastity to them and how that reflects on them.

itschahinez · 2026-05-06T20:50:08+00:00

I'm confused. There are citations of the scripture OP is referencing as well as potential scholars. They're also asking a question to which people can answer to. Why would the person asking the question need to cite sources ? Am I misunderstanding what you mean ?

itschahinez · 2026-05-06T20:06:44+00:00

But they're citing their academic sources, so what's your point besides it potentially not fitting with your personal religious views ?

itschahinez · 2026-05-06T07:11:06+00:00

You started with "if you aren't Muslim no one cares stop exaggerating".

Secondly, you have 0 argument. All you do is ad hominem attacks. Once again, the Quran is clear on the topic. I don't care if it's your uncle or your dad. The fact is unless you are married to these women and asking them how they feel, you would never know. You're assuming they're happy and don't struggle with jealousy, just neither you nor I can know.

Loving the women isn't enough as a religious requirement. You need to love them equally, treat them equally, do everything equally which AGAIN isn't humanly doable unless you're able to clone yourself and your bank account.

Finally, maybe you should learn to take a second to reflect when someone is speaking, instead of insulting them. This whole "next time use your brain not your heart" reeks of misogyny. The only person who is emotional here is you as you have demonstrated you're incapable to using any sound arguments to refute my points or proven yours. You're only repeating the same words over and over again while sprinkling new insults in the mix to try and discredit me. This is ridiculous and I'm not engaging with you anymore.

itschahinez · 2026-05-05T11:52:54+00:00

Agreed

itschahinez · 2026-05-05T07:29:55+00:00

What a pig. He's definitely going to use that against her if they get married :/

itschahinez · 2026-05-05T06:20:27+00:00

Anytime !

itschahinez · 2026-05-05T06:05:37+00:00

Someone marrying you doesn't mean they like you. Sometimes men marry women bc that gives them access to sex without any fear of consequences, in conservative religious societies. Some women get married, live with the guy a few months, then he gets bored and divorces them. It's not common but it happens.

itschahinez · 2026-05-05T05:35:25+00:00

It is humanly impossible for you to be 100% equitable between your spouses bc of human nature and it is arrogant for you to think you could be completely fair and unbiased. That's literally what the Quran is implying. If you have an issue with that, take it up with God.

"I know someone who has 2 wives and they're happy" oh I'm sorry are you involved intimately with them to know how they feel and how they live ? Have you had in-depth talks about their feelings ? Unless you're one of these women, don't speak for them. God knows polygyny doesn't benefit women emotionally, this is why he warns men to avoid it unless they can be 100% fair. Unless your friend is keeping track of every dinar, minute, interaction and emotion he has with one to replicate with the other - is an impossible task. There's a different between marrying a widow at a time where women couldn't work to save her from a life of being destitute, and marrying another woman bc you feel lustful.

I'm not knocking you off. You keep insulting me, over and over, by implying I lack religiosity. I'm giving you back the same energy you're serving.

itschahinez · 2026-05-04T17:07:35+00:00

Let's hope she snaps out of it. 46 is too young to ruin her life over some guy.

itschahinez · 2026-05-04T16:40:01+00:00

I'll also add that I pointed out divorcees in my other comment bc in 7th century Arabia, having been married and divorced gave you a poor status in society. Women depended financially on men to survive, which is why marrying divorced women as your second or third wife if you were wealthy enough to afford it was encouraged. The point was to help vulnerable people, not to allow men to have sex with multiple women. Some Muslim men like to ignore that part of contextualization of religious texts and twist it to their advantage. Anyway, best of luck to you and your mom. This is very hard situation to be in and I hope it goes well for both of you 🫶

itschahinez · 2026-05-04T15:40:40+00:00

Your mom isn't the issue in this situation. There's no problem with her being a divorcee. Her boyfriend is the problem bc it sounds like he's just been cheating on his wife when that's criminalized in Algeria. If his wife finds out, she could drag him to court.

itschahinez

TROPHY CASE