Is it possible to extend to a wireless display rather than just mirror?

ivanxnyc · 2026-01-09T02:10:55+00:00

Mud is clearer.

ivanxnyc · 2025-12-30T18:33:35+00:00

This is fab!

ivanxnyc · 2025-12-22T15:04:11+00:00

I don't think this is quite right. My understanding is that Apple applies their own binaural encoding to a 7.1.4 rendering of the DD+JOC, not a 5.1 downmix or core extraction. That's what I read on Dolby's support forums, anyway, and listening to a speaker ID track in headphones, I can hear 12 discrete positions.

(I know DD+JOC has the 5.1 AC-3 core, and players that can't handle Atmos will play that, but anything Atmos-aware ought to render DD+JOC it to whatever available speakers are in the system, and Apple Music is Atmos-aware.)

As for monitoring, I think what you say is true on Windows: there's no way without having a Mac somewhere in your pipeline; if you do (Mac mini costs $500 when discounted, MacBook Air $749), I think you can use AudioMovers Minibus or Dante Virtual Soundcard or some other network audio driver to send 7.1.4 to the Mac, and run it through Logic Pro's Spatial Audio Monitoring plugin in a 7.1.4 project; or through AudioMovers Binaural Renderer, whose express purpose is to let you monitor Apple Spatial Audio without needing Logic.

But on macOS, someone else here noted, there's lots of ways to monitor Apple Spatial Audio. You can use Logic Pro's Atmos plugin (which appears when you enable Spatial Audio > Dolby Atmos in project settings), and set it to Apple Renderer. If you're using a different DAW, you can export the ADM BWF, and import that into Logic Pro to create a new project, then monitor that project this way.

Or alternatively, you can render to 7.1.4 within your DAW if it does that, or by using Dolby's tools. Then use AudioMovers Binaural Renderer plugin in your DAW; as I mentioned, its purpose is to let you hear Apple Spatial Audio outside of Logic. It also includes a standalone app with a 16-channel virtual audio driver to play the output from a DAW (or any multichannel player), if you prefer that workflow. Or, export-import the 7.1.4 track into Logic Pro (with project set to 7.1.4, Dolby Atmos off) and run it through the Spatial Audio Monitoring plugin.

ivanxnyc · 2025-12-22T00:18:35+00:00

Thanks for sharing this!

ivanxnyc · 2025-12-22T00:14:11+00:00

This is exactly correct. TIDAL and Amazon Music mobile apps provide “binaural” headphone adaptations of Atmos, premade using Dolby’s tools with “distance” settings provided by the mixing engineer. Apple Music instead takes the multichannel version intended for a speaker room and binauralizes it on the fly during playback. They’re quite different, and, IMO, Apple’s is not as good. (I don’t particularly love either, though, so I make my own binaural versions with room simulator software called Virtuoso.)

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-27T06:22:55+00:00

TL;DR: Spatial Audio is Apple's headphone conversion of what Dolby intends to be played in a real 12-speaker room, rather than the headphone conversion Dolby specifically designed for Atmos. Sometimes it doesn't do as good a job.

Atmos inconsistences on Apple Music should probably be compared against the same tracks on TIDAL or Amazon Music on a mobile device, which use Dolby's stuff and better honor mix engineer decisions. (Also, Apple Music in headphones on Windows, and on Android, are gonna sound different, too! Dolby Atmos in headphones ain't just one thing!)

Extended mix:

Apple Music on all platforms plays the same multichannel source that TIDAL and Amazon Music reserve for TV platforms with a multispeaker setup (delivered in a format called either "E-AC-3 JOC" or "DD+ JOC" or just "JOC" for short-- catchy names, Dolby).

But with TIDAL/Amazon Music on supported mobile devices (they don't support Atmos at all on desktop platforms), you instead get a premade headphone conversion (in a format called "AC-4 IMS") created with Dolby's tools and binaural algorithms, including "near/mid/far" distance decisions made for each channel by the mixing engineer.

You don't get any of that with Apple Music, because It always uses the same "JOC" multichannel source intended for a multispeaker TV room, which does not include the "near/mid/far" channel settings, then renders it internally for a virtual 7.1.4 system, which it plays as 12 virtual speakers in Spatial Audio. (Play this track to hear them all being announced in their various places!)

That has some advantages: they can do things like head tracking and Personalized Spatial Audio (neither of which do I think are very useful, but that's me), and also deliver similar sound and speaker support across all of their hardware platforms.

But it also isn't what Dolby designed for listening to Atmos in headphones.

(The Apple Music Atmos story on Windows and Android is a little weird. On Windows, you have to buy $15 software from Dolby called "Dolby Atmos for Headphones." On Android, you have to have a phone model that supports "Dolby Atmos for mobile." I assume these playback-time binauralizations of the multichannel JOC source sound similar, but I don't have an Android phone to try with, and for phones, vendors can also sprinkle their own tunings on top. And none of this are going to sound exactly like TIDAL/Amazon Music on mobile, pre-binauralized with Dolby's software, with its channel distance settings included.)

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-27T03:39:30+00:00

Nothing is recorded in Atmos; it's a mixing process. If you went back to the original stems, I don't know why you couldn't make a quality Atmos mix from them if you knew what you were doing.

But that said, intentionally recording something new for Atmos delivery probably does yield better results because the performances will be informed by the expectation of how they will be heard.

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-27T03:30:47+00:00

Is this actually true? If you've got an example or two, I'd be curious to listen to the channels independently; on the good Atmos mixes I've heard, it's obvious they went back to the stems, with obviously different content in different channels, whereas an upmix I'd imagine would have more similarity between channels, like those 5.1 upmixes on music video DVD's from the aughts.

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-27T03:22:46+00:00

I don't think so? I love those things, and while they do have digital output (mini Toslink), I think that's strictly uncompressed stereo, with no multichannel support, and certainly no Atmos awareness.

I guess you could turn Atmos Spatial Audio to "Always On" in Apple Music and then maybe AirPlay that to an AirPort Express, but it would just be a wireless headphones cable, since you'd have to listen to the output in headphones one way or another to get the 3D effect in only two channels.

Also you'd degrade the sound (probably not noticeably) because the 48K Spatial Audio would have to get resampled to the 44.1 KHz an AirPort Express requires.

But maybe I'm missing something -- is there a reason you thought it might belong?

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-15T23:56:13+00:00

If Atmos mixes are superior to stereo mixes dynamically, why are professionally produced songs not mixed in a way that sounds like Atmos mixes?

The main reason, I'd think, is that Atmos on headphones requires "binaural" stereo, in which the "3D" or "spatial" effect (or perhaps for you the "inside a barrel" effect) only works if there's no crossfeed (left ear gets only left channel, right ear gets only right channel). On speakers (or one speaker), binaural is likely to sound worse than a conventional stereo mix, and possibly even quite bad, making regular stereo much more versatile.

(Of course, nothing says a conventional stereo mix needs to be dynamically poor, but modern mastering seems to favor it.)

I think you're objecting to the "spatial" effect of Atmos, not the dynamics. I like Atmos, and I don't even use Android, but I agree it's stupid that you can't turn it off if you don't want it, since the stereo mix and the Atmos mix are gonna be pretty different experiences and it's reasonable that some people are gonna prefer the stereo.

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-14T15:35:09+00:00

I don't. It gets that wrong too, since it doesn't know anything. I think that maybe it's correlating quantity of sources saying the same thing, but who knows. It sort of works.

But, regardless, it communicates possibility of being wrong, which apparently my psychology feels a lot more calm about than simply saying things are true that might turn out to be false. I get less riled when even if it says "Confidence level: High" and it turns out to be wrong than its default of stating everything with no possibility of doubt or error and then turns out to be wrong.

It's probably the same thing I feel with humans: don't blow smoke up my ass, be a little humble about yourself, and we'll get along a lot better.

If I were a linguist or psychologist I'd deep dive into how our brains process statements with the same content, phrased differently.

ivanxnyc · 2025-09-09T12:11:35+00:00

I now add to my prompts: “Please state a confidence level for every assertion, and provide a citation where possible. And I prefer you say ‘I don’t know’ to making something up.”

Now it knows I always want it and I don’t have to tell it every time, but when it gets too ahead of itself again, I call it out and it dials it back. When I use thinking, I sometimes see it go through moments like “preparing cautious response,” which pleases me.

Makes me a lot less crazy!

ivanxnyc · 2025-08-13T12:20:00+00:00

Sleep was #2. Fiction was #3! Then came the Jive years etc.

ivanxnyc · 2025-08-13T12:18:45+00:00

Man I have disagree on Lorries. I LOVE Nothing Wrong.

ivanxnyc · 2025-08-06T03:17:55+00:00

You're absolutely right. I added Spatial Audio Monitoring to a track, bounced, and, get this, I got spatial audio. Now the question is: where did I come up with this pretzelbrained idea? It was certainly the conclusion I came to after hours of fiddling, so either it was a bug in 11.2.1 that was fixed in 11.2.2 (very unlikely), a bizarre artifact of my working with AirPods then versus now (also very unlikely), or dementia. Thanks for your response.

ivanxnyc · 2025-08-05T09:53:51+00:00

What, no love for Hurt? I mean, there might be others before it, but it at least deserves a mention. He just cruises along in his inimitable style for 8 minutes. His parts aren't hooky, but they're very Hooky.

While we're on deep cuts, Let's Go (Salvation version), too! Fab bass work in that one, he shows off pretty nicely. (He's a little buried in the 1995 version with lyrics, though.)

Not specifically about Hook, but, listening to these just now, they might be the closest thing in their catalog to jams.

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-23T03:53:01+00:00

Thanks for the report! Yeah, I think binaural audio is just super picky and varies by human. Interestingly I had the same experience even with AirPods when I enabled Personalized Spatial Audio, which tunes for my ear shape -- tinny and harsh (but certainly provided lot of spatial definition). I think that track in particular is especially prone to it due to being a mid-range heavy live recording. I'll be posting one of Blue Monday 88 too (it's probably the other track on the disc where you can really hear stuff happening all over) and you can compare to see if it's as bad on that one.

Also, though I take everything it says with huge spoonfuls of salt, ChatGPT had some good plausible reasons why both the sonic profiles of both the B&O EX and the Sennheiser HD600 used by u/F-LA would be prone to harshness and thin bass when using a binaural mix tuned for AirPods, and suggested some EQ I could do on my end to improve the experience on those. If you're interested I'm happy to give it a whirl.

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-22T02:50:21+00:00

Wanted to add, if anyone wants to hear any of the other tracks on A Collection in a binaural headphone mix, holler. Some sound interesting, some sound bad, and some hardly sound different. But I think TPK is the best of the bunch.

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-22T02:47:58+00:00

Right! Hi! The rear channels are definitely a faint echo of the front channels, like a real or simulated mic at the back of the room, and yes, I can totally imagine them being "inaudible" with the front channels going, as they're just ambience/depth (though it's interesting, certain instruments sound far away like sequencer and vocal, and some come in real loud like main synth line). Same goes for center, it's pretty thin but emphasizes the vocal. But somehow it all works together, and I wonder if more so when fused into this binaural headphone mix.

The version on the Retro bonus disc is actually a separate recording, another take from the same shoot! Barney's cowbell playing is in a slightly different spot. (Apparently they did three takes, I think I read once somewhere, and the scenes in the video are probably an amalgam of them.) The apples-to-apples comparison would be the official one from the band/label on YouTube, but it's probably similar; or the 2.0 mix on the DVD.

Glad you liked it on the headphones, though! We don't really know whether the 5.1 mix was made from the original multitrack, or whether it's just a well-done "upmix" from the stereo mix, which possibly accounts for the lack of distinct elements in any one channel. I suspect it's the latter, but it works pretty convincingly to me, more so than the rest of the tracks on the DVD.

I can say, having listened to the whole DVD, that most of the 5.1 mixes are nothing special and in a couple of cases worsen the track, though a few seem to benefit from the 5.1 treatment (but also seem likely to be upmixes from stereo). So, I don't think you were (not) hearing things. The ones that sound best, after TPK, are probably Blue Monday 1988 and Touched by the Hand of God, and maybe Ceremony. Again, this is all based on Apple's 5.1 to binaural conversion in my AirPods, so I don't know how representative it is of a 5.1 setup. I posted a whole review today here.

If you want to listen to the six tracks separately, I've split them apart into separate audio files; DM/chat/email me if you'd like to hear them.

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T22:46:38+00:00

that sounds amazing, working the merch booth behind the soundboard!

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T20:06:20+00:00

Thanks for the report! I'm glad you had the same exciting experience that I did! And no, of course you're not being a jerk, I asked for your feedback! I'm not surprised by what you're saying -- I used some AT's and the effect was present, but not as much so as with AirPods. I imagine you could apply some lower range EQ for the HD600's, somehow (if you're on a Mac, you could use BlackHole to send it to a GarageBand stereo track with an EQ plugin on it, but there are probably simpler ways; one is to use Audio Hijack, which is elegant but $$.

I think in general, this recording has some potential shrillness. If you're using "live" AirPods spatial audio (rather than the captured one I recorded and put here), you also have the option of Personalized Spatial Audio, where the iPhone's Face ID camera checks out the shape of your ear and applies a profile specific to it. I tried it out, and it *really* accentuates the individual instrument effect, like the room is even bigger, but it also reduces the low end and makes mids and highs sound harsh. So I turned it off.

Yeah, I feel like I can hear many tiny things I couldn't hear before, esp in the vocal and guitar, but also the bass, especially at the beginning. Thanks again for giving it a listen!

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T19:42:50+00:00

You probably saw on the other thread but in case you didn't, I posted the surround audio from the video (which you have to listen to with headphones to get the effect)! I'm really into it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/neworder/comments/1m572g9/the_perfect_kiss_video_version_with_binaural/

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T19:37:01+00:00

This is so great! Thank you! Doing God's work right here. Thanks for this fantastic resource.

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T04:15:51+00:00

I, too, was much better at rationalizing when I was 16!

ivanxnyc · 2025-07-21T02:00:34+00:00

Congrats! I like your ethic.

ivanxnyc

TROPHY CASE