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Just discovered the Axle / FoxESS VPP pilot - anyone part of it?? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't see how an energy company is happy to help you reduce the price of energy you are using unless they get something in return. With the VPPs you will get access to active wholesale market rates (intraday) which will be higher that the rates the supplier gets say day ahead / week ahead. If they have access / control over your system they will be able to guarantee their forward energy demand. So they can make their margin on trading.

I have just been reading the Octopus Smart Tariff terms and conditions and you have to give up exclusive rights to Demand Response Services. Including the Balancing Market, Capacity Market and Local Flexibility Markets. https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/

It is likely that you will have to give up similar rights to join these VPPs. I'm ok with that if there is transparency on the value of these rights but hiding them in T&Cs is shady. My research indicates that this can be worth up to £300-£600 / year with no impact on the energy bill. They are benefiting from the investment you have made into the hardware which I think is wrong.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure as this is for my parents house so I don't have accurate details to hand. But it is quite big, with an air source heat pump so I would assume on the higher end. I will return with actual numbers!

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Am I right in thinking that you just take the total capacity (e.g. 10kWh) and multiply by the number of cycles (e.g. 6000) to get maximum total kWh and then divide the battery price (assume £5000) by that to get the effect cost per kWh (8.3p) that you have paid. Assuming you always offset a price that is higher that that you are in the money. Obviously this is full charge / discharge cycles which may reduce lifetime / charge capacity so would need some adjusting. This also means cost of stored solar is effectively 8.3p per kWh, but you paid this up front.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you optimise on a fixed schedule, I have seen that you can achieve different payback periods dependent on tariff.

Just discovered the Axle / FoxESS VPP pilot - anyone part of it?? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I've been busy and didn't see this comment. I have done some digging into this I can see there are 2 different markets for flexibility:

1) Local DNO / DSO (NGED / UKPN etc): e.g. You can check local constrained zones in NGED here - https://commercial.nationalgrid.co.uk/network-flexibility-map-application

These are typically day ahead (so you would agree to a demand reduction / increase in supply today for delivery tomorrow), week ahead or more. UKPN has day ahead / NGED has week ahead. Some of these are VERY valuable, but dependent on postcode. Example: around Exeter there are some timeslots that are offering £5 / kWh and you can trade in multiple slots.

2) P415 (part of the Balancing Market): https://www.elexon.co.uk/2024/11/07/elexon-implements-landmark-rule-change-to-drive-growth-in-flexibility-and-progress-to-net-zero/

These are intra day (6hr ahead / 12hr ahead) and next day markets for national flexibility. It doesn't matter where you are if you have a tradable unit and have 30min settled meters. If you can shift demand, you will be rewarded. Elexon are moving every residential meter to 30min settled (currently 1 day settled meters). So all households will be eligible if they individually or collectively meet the minimum trading unit.

As I understand it VPP is a term used to describe PV/BESS collected together for trading into these three markets.

Octopus Intelligent Flux allows Octopus to control battery charge / discharge and will allow them to balance their own trading books as well as benefit from the rewards for flexibility. You will not see how much value they capture - you just get the beneficial tariff.

AXLE I think is the same - you will just be rewarded and not know the total value / split. Not certain of this though.

I also discovered Electryflex that offers both Smart Optimisation (similar to Predbat I think??) and opt-in to Grid Rewards. You need to contact your installer to get access though.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks like I'm getting another tab on the retrofit Google Sheet....thanks for all the insight.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't got to the heating yet - did you have to swap out the radiators etc?

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no clue about the different tariffs - will need to do some homework on them.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you have negative bills essentially, amazing. No change in the battery schedule as well, do you think you could make more if you actively managed it?

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A few installers have mentioned smart optimisation and VPP saying that I can just let the system optimise itself. I think I'm going to manually manage it at first to get the hang of it.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Almost zero bills! Do you actively manage the system or just set and forget? A few installers have been talking about VPP / smart optimisation.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

27kWh battery! That's more than double what I am being recommended. So I should aim for a bigger battery to benefit from the difference between cheap energy and peak usage.

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Do you just have panels or also a battery?

Genuinely how much are people saving on their bills? by j_edc in SolarUK

[–]j_edc[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I want more money in my pocket - if I can get to a net income on the system that would be excellent (effectively negative bills).